the good thing is, that the any% category is pushed to it's limits now, so you don't have to be frightend, that there will be new major thinks discovered
This has been said so many times by now that I know it's a lie.
We were saying that 2 years ago about OoT, and now look where we are.
let's think about it:
we have every major sequence break for MM discovered apart from zora mask skip and a temple skip
both are the same as an OoT light arrow skip, that means, they will be never possible
all we can do is breaking the temples even more and finding new timesavers. maybe also a new wrong warp, but I tested every place and I didn't find anything. maybe I missed a place, who knows.
woodfall temple:
we have the quickest way over to the bow and a boss key skip.
all we could do, would be to find a better place for the boss key skip.
snowhead temple:
we have the fastest route up to the temple and a boss key skip, which requieres too many explosives. snowhead requieres already too much, so a boss key skip isn't worth
great bay temple:
we have that ultra sequence break, that skips nearly the whole temple. only a better place to get out of bounds would speed the temple up. I have a idea already ;)
stone tower:
we have the fastest route over to the light arrow and a trick, that skips nearly the whole inverted stone tower. I've figured out a better place to get out of bounds, what should save even more explosives, so we can skip even more bomb hovers.
however, there are also not many people left, that try to break OoT and MM even more. sometimes I have the impression, that I'm the last one :/
You can skip getting the light arrows by assigning them to the B button, so they are technically skipped in some way. Something similar could be possible for MM, though BA and RBA are totally impossible for MM.
I'll do some research on MM somewhen. There's a very slim chance for me to find some lose pointers, though most of the time I fail, like with Mario 64. :(
I've just had a little idea for an improvement of our current route!
Instead of getting those 10 bombs for the boss key skip from the mirror room, we get them from the pre-gomess room. this is a bit slower, but then we can still get 100 ruppies by shooting those 2 skull things with light arrows ;)
What do you think?
we have every major sequence break for MM discovered apart from zora mask skip
Ok I've heard that one a lot and I'm still not getting why it would save time. I mean even if you could skip playing the song to get into the water temple (which would be a huge time saver), it would probably still be faster to just get the Zora mask anyway, since it helps you out a lot (swimming, getting durther with less bombs etc.) and really doesn't take that long to get...
woodfall temple:
we have the quickest way over to the bow and a boss key skip.
all we could do, would be to find a better place for the boss key skip.
Though I'm not really sure if the bosskey skip is really that practical here. I mean it takes you a shitload of explosives to do it and it really isn't that much faster than just getting the key. Plus you have to have the money for the explosives and make an extra trip to the bomb shop...
MrGrunz wrote:
I've just had a little idea for an improvement of our current route!
Instead of getting those 10 bombs for the boss key skip from the mirror room, we get them from the pre-gomess room. this is a bit slower, but then we can still get 100 ruppies by shooting those 2 skull things with light arrows ;)
What do you think?
Didn't you say that with your new hover-route we wouldn't need to go back to get additional explosives?
The other question ofcourse is when the stone tower will be done. If it's done last we really don't need more money.
Is there a concrete plan which temple should be done when?
Btw. could the far-jump used in the beginning of this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj-DNETgvBA or the superflip as shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7uV-P34_yc be used in the air? f though it could drastically decrese the explosives needed to get to some loading zones. (I'm pretty sure it can't or somebody would have done it allready, but if you don't ask you can't get an answer. :D )
As long as you have the ISG on, a bomb hitting your shield will cause you to hover. This, unforunately, prevents us from doing most of the recoil stuff in midair. OoT is lucky; they can still megaflip out of hover.
But I should really look into that superflip thing SL did again. Maybe it's just a trick of the eye, but it seems to be going higher/farther than a regular recoil flip. Will test later.
As long as you have the ISG on, a bomb hitting your shield will cause you to hover. This, unforunately, prevents us from doing most of the recoil stuff in midair. OoT is lucky; they can still megaflip out of hover.
That is really a shame. MM would need it so much more than OoT.
And I guess if you turn ISG off in midair, you fall down...
But I should really look into that superflip thing SL did again. Maybe it's just a trick of the eye, but it seems to be going higher/farther than a regular recoil flip. Will test later.
It is pretty far... Maybe that one works in midair. Well one can dream. :D
As long as you have the ISG on, a bomb hitting your shield will cause you to hover. This, unforunately, prevents us from doing most of the recoil stuff in midair. OoT is lucky; they can still megaflip out of hover.
That is really a shame. MM would need it so much more than OoT.
And I guess if you turn ISG off in midair, you fall down...
You do fall down, but you could always time it so that you shield a bomb immediately after (which is what we do with the Zora Mask thing). The problem is that when you deactivate the glitch in midair, you immediately fall at maximum speed. And to get an idea of how fast maximum falling speed is, a superslide has a speed of 27. Your max falling speed is 30. Putting on the Zora Mask nicely resets your speed to 0, which is why we do it (changing direction is an added bonus).
what SL did was just a frame perfect recoil flip + a jump and it really gives you more distance, but there are nearly no places to use it ;)
@slowking
we needed 13 extra bombs for the old optimized boss key skip and there are only 2 rooms in the whole temple, that contain bomb drops:
1. mirror room
2. pre gomess room
both only contain 2 bomb drops. 2x5=10
my better optimized version requiers only 9 extra bombs, so we have to only visit the rooms for the bomb drops one time ;)
oh, and with my new ultimate GBT trick, skipping the zora mask would save about 10-15 minutes now ;)
it would skip learning the song, playing the song, collecting the eggs, getting any bottle, bringing the zora guy out of the water, playing SoH and the zora mask cutscence.
our whole route is based on collecting the eggs, if you didn't notice it yet ;)
here's a little trick to reduce the number of needed explosives for stone tower even more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVYT2Q0RTQc
I also show, that there's no need for a roll to change your camera angle while bombchu hovering. just do a sideways bombchu hover and you can change your angle directly afterwards ;)
edit:
here's the alternate stone tower boss key skip I talked about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABbrgB0iteU
it only requieres 18 explosives ;)
oh, and with my new ultimate GBT trick, skipping the zora mask would save about 10-15 minutes now ;)
Getting the Hookshot takes quite a long time without the Zora Mask, and the Zora Mask is rather handy. Plus, we'd still need a way to get the small key in STT. Skipping those other things would save time, but I'm not so sure about skipping the Zora Mask itself.
MrGrunz wrote:
what SL did was just a frame perfect recoil flip + a jump and it really gives you more distance, but there are nearly no places to use it ;)
Yes, after testing it seems what SL did is just a recoil flip/jump, and not anything new.
But testing revealed something else. For the first time, I actually got the Mega Flip effect in MM. It travels the exact same distance as a recoil flip, but Link completes his backflip while doing it. So, naturally, the first thing to check is if you can do it out of hover. The answer is...yes.
Mega Flip out of Hover
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBLDOn9olxM
EDIT: Also, Mega Hovering
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EMMyAjQx-Y
These new finds are really nice. For a while I was afraid I was going to be bored by an epic amount of repetitive bomb hovers. MrGrunz's OoB skips keep getting better.
How extensively will a 2/3 gain on explosives help the rupee route and amount of bomb shop trips?
I'm really excited to see all of this in action some day.
oh, and with my new ultimate GBT trick, skipping the zora mask would save about 10-15 minutes now ;)
it would skip learning the song, playing the song, collecting the eggs, getting any bottle, bringing the zora guy out of the water, playing SoH and the zora mask cutscence.
That's the part I don't understand / think is BS. How would skipping the Zora mask help you skip the eggs/song/etc? If you skip the Zora mask, you just skip the mask, nothing else.
If you could skip, the song and thereby the eggs, that would be great, but it would probably be faster to get the Zora mask anyway, since the cutscene really isn't that long and it helps in a lot of places... but in the end I said all of this in my last post. Didn't you read it? XD
MrGrunz wrote:
Extremely cool. If I see it correctly this could also be used with the bosskey skips in STT and GBT, right? Maybe we don't have to go back in STT after all...
The best thing about it is, that you only used 2 Chus. Normal bombs are quickly refilled on every bush. great! ^^
Could you test one more thing? In OoT SL got into an Infinite Super Slide directly from a Mega flip, as seen here. Could you test if it also works in MM? That should save some time in a few instances. For example: After the gap skipping you just did, you could slide directly in the tower or after the fairy fountain wrong warp glitch (from now on I'll just call it "ffww", far to long otherwise :D ) you could slide directly out of the fountain.
Edit:
Is there any way one can check if there are multiple rooms on a map? Or a programm you can few maps with? It's just that I just noticed, that the observatory is open at the top and I was thinking maybe they put it on one map with a few of the gerudo rooms or something.
Edit:
Oh not even just open at the top. You can walk through the window on the side. :D Well probably nothing else on that map anyway...
I figured out a way to get OoB in nearly every fucking building, but there was nothing else
I asked millions times for a program already, but nobody was able to help me
maybe a Debug rom can do
somebody once talked with a game hacker for me in order to find wrong warps in OoT, but the hacker said, that it isn't possible
he knew the placement of every building etc., so I'm pretty sure, that there's a way
