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Posted: 3/6/2009 8:04 PM
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Wyster
Active player (301)
Joined: 9/2/2006
Posts: 504
Okay i'm posting a progress report here for those who still give a damn about the run. Basicly testing out strats and making a big investigation in quickpauses have taken up the past week. Me and Simon have "determined" that using 1 single pause for first 2 plastiques is faster(I was gonna do a counterpart to this run testing the normal strat but it's just too obvious that it's gonna be slower), especially after Simon got 1:09.6 using that strategy. A 5 second cut over RT's run and there's still lots of room for improvement. 1:06-1:07 might not be impossible at all. Altough, it's gonna be crazy. So anyway, i decided to start up my real run and try to maybe finish it this weekend. I'm still in the beginning of the run but if i can just get past this first scientist room, progress is gonna go faster.
Posted: 3/7/2009 1:44 AM
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Ersatz
Joined: 8/9/2004
Posts: 139
Location: Washington State
Wyster wrote:
Okay i'm posting a progress report here for those who still give a damn about the run.
I still give a damn :)
Posted: 3/7/2009 5:40 AM
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timmah
Joined: 6/14/2007
Posts: 22
Location: Brisbane, QLD, Australia
same here - and im sure theres plenty of lurkers like me who give a damn as well :) edit: I also just saw a little bit of casino royale last night - so make that 2 damns at least.
Posted: 3/7/2009 8:38 AM
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Rising_Tempest
Player (168)
Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada
timmah wrote:
same here - and im sure theres plenty of lurkers like me who give a damn as well :) edit: I also just saw a little bit of casino royale last night - so make that 2 damns at least.
LIVIN A LIE TIMMAAAAAYYY
Posted: 3/9/2009 1:07 PM
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DaTeL237
Active player (355)
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
Wow great to hear the (possible/future) improvements on silo! after watching RT's tas I couldn't think of any improvement tbh :D good luck!
TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]
Posted: 3/11/2009 12:47 AM
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Ersatz
Joined: 8/9/2004
Posts: 139
Location: Washington State
Can we get a side by side caparison to the new run and RTs old run as far as frame rate goes? Or are they posted and I've been sleeping? -_-
Posted: 3/11/2009 6:15 AM
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Wyster
Active player (301)
Joined: 9/2/2006
Posts: 504
Are you refering to frame RATE as in like less lag etc or frame COUNT? It would be pretty cool having the runs side by side though :) As far as progress goes, i've just entered the 3rd plastique room in the silo. I'm trying to decide whether i should try a 1 pause strat here or do exactly like Simon. If i do the latter than it should be finished shortly, otherwise i dont know, depends on luck and difficulty.
Posted: 3/11/2009 2:17 PM
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DaTeL237
Active player (355)
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
Heh good to hear :) I think you should definitely try a 1pause strat if you know it can save time. Did you ever measure how much time a pause (including the un-pause) costs? Taking it to even more extremes.. how's about the possibility of a 3-plastiques-in-1-pause? :P I have close to zero knowledge about door/scientist/keycard manipulation... and clearly you couldn't use doorwarping. Just trying to help though ;) Hmm thinking about it... did anybody ever test what the allowed area is for the plastiques? *maybe* someone could open the ROM in some editor and have a look at the bounding boxes if they exist... Also I wouldn't be surprised if it possible to throw the plastiques out of the building from the highest point in a rocket-silo such that they land in the correct rooms?:x i'm on a crazy spree here ;)
TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]
Posted: 3/12/2009 7:41 AM
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Wyster
Active player (301)
Joined: 9/2/2006
Posts: 504
Well i can kinda debunk that last theory immideadly :p Doing 2 plastiques in 1 pause between first and second room saves alot, but on the other hand theres only 1 door we have to wait for and the second is warpable after a little while. Also we do quickpauses by the first door which makes up for the lost time. 3 however is way more complicated. In second room, KF7 firing is needed to get door to open by guards, otherwise theres a big time loss from waiting for it. Next, a catwalk with 2 doors, 2 guards on the catwalk, and a third right behind the second door. Getting past all guards is probably possible but there's still the door waiting thing, 3 doors is too much. How much a pause costs varies but in this case it should be 2.84 seconds. Not too much. The same goes for 3rd to 4th room, 3 doors, 3 guards + keycard being out of the way. Current strat is probably optimal.
Posted: 3/14/2009 4:50 PM
(Edited: 3/14/2009 6:25 PM)
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Wyster
Active player (301)
Joined: 9/2/2006
Posts: 504
Silo finished! M64: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/873823061/Wyster%20-%20Goldeneye%20007%20-%20Silo.m64 Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNhFWKgPShk&feature=channel_page&fmt=18 Ties Simon's previous TAS and is exactly 1 frame below what's needed for 1:07. So a nice 7 second improvement over RT's run here. Njoy! So now the greatest obstacle of this run is here, Frigate. However, using real hostage manipulation i might be able to go sub 1 min. This brings up another question however, which strat is fastest?? obviously hostages is the only thing standing in our way, meaning we'll want to let the slow dudes loose as soon as possible. Not sure if WR strat is optimal for TAS... NOTE: Just in case more poeple than Simon miss this, Check out the KF7 during first pause :P
Posted: 3/14/2009 6:06 PM
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SwordlessLink
Active player (499)
Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682
Gameboy TAS of 2010 TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
This is the best WIP so far. ^_^
Posted: 3/14/2009 8:37 PM
Post subject: Silo!
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Catastrophe
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
I enjoyed that quite a bit! :) The Silo is a fun level to see done perfectly because of all the stuff going on in it. I have nothing constructive to say. Just that your Silo run looked awesome.
Posted: 3/14/2009 8:57 PM
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Weatherton
Experienced player (608)
Joined: 10/23/2004
Posts: 706
N64 TASer of 2016 TAS of 2016 First edition TAS of 2016 N64 TAS of 2016
Loved the Silo run :) And I definitely noticed the KF7 wiggling around as you paused :) Yay for 2.3!
Current Project: - Mario Kart 64
Posted: 3/14/2009 9:32 PM
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Captain_Forehead
Player (79)
Joined: 7/7/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Utah
Seems to me that video was about a crazed madman shooting anything that moves. :P
Posted: 3/15/2009 12:30 AM
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mr_roberts_z
Former player
Joined: 7/21/2006
Posts: 747
Location: Northern Hemisphere
Absolutely awesome. That's all I have to say.
Super Mario 64 TASes and stuff.
Posted: 3/16/2009 2:24 AM
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Thereisnospoon
Joined: 3/31/2005
Posts: 148
Location: Colorado
I especially liked you shooting the guys below you in the last silo. Nice touch
Do not try to bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead only try to realize the truth. What Truth? There is nospoon. Then you will see it is not the spoon that changes, it is only yourself
Posted: 3/16/2009 11:57 AM
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Wyster
Active player (301)
Joined: 9/2/2006
Posts: 504
I posted some results of my frigate investigations on the-elite yesterday: http://perfectdarkelite.yuku.com/topic/14453/master/1/?page=1 Just in case anyone over here have any further ideas regarding the strategy :P To me it seems that optimal way to start would be to as soon as possible free both engine hostage and "First 00A hostage", I have to time both routes in this case. As soon as those 2 are free the rest of the level is completely dependent on them escaping quickly. So if i can just get rest of the level completed before then, i should get an optimal time. The only factor that remains unknown is exactly how fast they can escape. If they're too fast, i might need to rethink the upper levels. Also theres the obvious thing that freeing Engine hostage first should be more optimal, it just has 1 problem, when would the pause be done?? It's optimal to do right after engine hostage but then you'd have to free the other one first...
Posted: 3/16/2009 12:39 PM
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DaTeL237
Active player (355)
Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands
The part of silo that I can see looks very good :) however I get a desynch for some reason.... even if I watch the movie from the start without FstFwrd I don't have the right video plugin though... so that might be the problem? oh... while typing this I realized there's a youtube version :D looks awesome :) also, great investigation work on frigate man! the time on it will be shattered :D good luck making a route out of your info (wish I could help but i know close to nothing on frig)
TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]
Posted: 3/19/2009 4:38 PM
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Wyster
Active player (301)
Joined: 9/2/2006
Posts: 504
Okay got some really crazy problems here, I'm about halfway through Frigate(which is going amazing and fast btw), However, yesterday after first pause, i tried to playback, and i thought i had gotten a desynch when nothing was chosen during pause. But today i tried again and IT SYNCHED. So i thought like "Wieerd, but okay i guess i'll playback again and continue progress", but this time it didn't synch, twice in a row. So i restart mupen and this time it synched again. Next try it didn't. So it seems the game only synchs on first playback and none of the following? I've never seen or heard of anything like it. I have no idea if my second problem is possible to fix but the water on frigate is just beyond terrible. I thought Rice's and Napalm had fixed that problem somewhat but appareantly it's no diffrent at all. The water is made up of a green hypnotic background. It's extremely annoying and if someone knows a way to just remove it or something(Without sky glitch like in RT's run, and btw, i know nothing of how this problem occurs but i don't suppose replacing the water texture would help? Like a hi-res pack or something) that'd be awesome. Edit: Frigate Test run: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/945598202/Frigate%20in%20progress.m64 I finished this run 3 times in 0:59 seconds but appareantly the graphical issues is making the game desynch like hell. And to that add that it's practicly impossible to optimize ending since i cant see a thing! I simply don't have to patience to sit and make this synch, you'll just gonna have to take my word for it that's it's a COMPLETED 59 second run. Without a fix to this graphics problem i'm not gonna continue/redo.[/url]
Posted: 3/19/2009 8:29 PM
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DemonStrate
Joined: 4/18/2006
Posts: 179
Location: East Petersburg, PA
Wyster wrote:
Okay got some really crazy problems here, I'm about halfway through Frigate(which is going amazing and fast btw), However, yesterday after first pause, i tried to playback, and i thought i had gotten a desynch when nothing was chosen during pause. But today i tried again and IT SYNCHED. So i thought like "Wieerd, but okay i guess i'll playback again and continue progress", but this time it didn't synch, twice in a row. So i restart mupen and this time it synched again. Next try it didn't. So it seems the game only synchs on first playback and none of the following? I've never seen or heard of anything like it. I have no idea if my second problem is possible to fix but the water on frigate is just beyond terrible. I thought Rice's and Napalm had fixed that problem somewhat but appareantly it's no diffrent at all. The water is made up of a green hypnotic background. It's extremely annoying and if someone knows a way to just remove it or something(Without sky glitch like in RT's run, and btw, i know nothing of how this problem occurs but i don't suppose replacing the water texture would help? Like a hi-res pack or something) that'd be awesome. Edit: Frigate Test run: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/945598202/Frigate%20in%20progress.m64 I finished this run 3 times in 0:59 seconds but appareantly the graphical issues is making the game desynch like hell. And to that add that it's practicly impossible to optimize ending since i cant see a thing! I simply don't have to patience to sit and make this synch, you'll just gonna have to take my word for it that's it's a COMPLETED 59 second run. Without a fix to this graphics problem i'm not gonna continue/redo.[/url]
Mine doesn't desync... it just crashes Mupen when you are going into the pause menu.
"I think we can put our differences behind us... for science, you monster."
Posted: 3/20/2009 9:15 AM
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Wyster
Active player (301)
Joined: 9/2/2006
Posts: 504
Yeah i dunno what's up with that pause, seems that second decoder pause at bridge has similar desynching problems. I guess Rice just doesn't work for frigate. Wireframe is totally fucked up, water being the worst emulation i've ever seen, flickering, wierd lag, previous images showing up again making it impossible to see sh*t etc etc... Anyway to just turn off the water or something? I'd hate a black background but it would be way better than this. Edit: Wow, really feels like i'm talking to myself here, but anyway, i have an idea that may be impossible, i dunno really, but i was thinking about trying to make this run synch in Glide64 Napalm through hex editing. Usually i get a desynch in beginning of Dam when trying to run it but when i ran my frigate run through a savestate, it actuallty synched perfectly up to the first pause(which was kind of expected). Anyway, i'm pretty sure no major adjustments need to be made for it to work? (I really don't have any experience whatsoever with hex editing) If someone could like explain the process or give some input it'd be much appreciated.
Posted: 3/23/2009 5:48 PM
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Wyster
Active player (301)
Joined: 9/2/2006
Posts: 504
Sry for double posting, but it's appareantly really hard to get any attention by editing(seeing as topic doesn't appear on top of the list when edited). Anyway, i tried programs like TasEdit, and i seem to get one major problem with it, it can't read the m64 properly?? input that starts on let's say frame 200, will appears close to 400 in it. Also it says controller 2 is disabled when it's not, it says the rom is [E] while in fact it's [U], and last but not least, any changes i make doesn't get changed, let's say i change the description, it will still be the same as the original file when i save it... Am i doing something wrong?
Posted: 3/23/2009 8:01 PM
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chaosv1
Joined: 4/1/2008
Posts: 149
Hex Editing for m64 in TASedit is still rlly untested. The better alternative would be to use a real binary file hex editor and edit it that way
Comicalflop wrote:
I don't recommend HISSing at parties though, people will think you're a snake.
Posted: 3/24/2009 3:26 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (734)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Use JXQ's QuickHex, it handles .m64's. I don't know how to solve your frigate issues, since plugins aren't all synch compatible (unlike my mischief makers run, where all plugins synch the same, and I could use a different plugin to aid in my TASing.)
☣ Homepage ☣ Retired
Posted: 3/24/2009 4:27 PM
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Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
Like chaosv1 said, just get a bog standard one, the ones that are specially developed for TASing cause nothing but problems for me. Of course you still have to know how to locate frames.
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