Joined: 4/18/2006
Posts: 179
Location: East Petersburg, PA
TakaM wrote:
A USB loader has recently come out for the Wii, it allows you to load ISOs off a USB storage device.
Currently it only loads Wii games (though you can trick it into thinking GCN ISOs are Wii ISOs), what I'm getting at is do you guys think this could eventually have the tools incorporated to make GCN and Wii TAS's possible?
Doubtful. More than likely, TAS's will stick to computers and emulators. I'm almost positive to make 'tools' like that, you need to manipulate how the system actually runs the game, which I don't seen happening.
"I think we can put our differences behind us... for science, you monster."
Here's a new any% route MrSparkle and I are working on. So far we're up to getting Makar
###################
#### Segment 1 ####
Rupees: 0 Joy: 0
-Opening cutscene
-Sidehop off balcony
-Swim to shore then run to Link's House
-Climb ladder
-Obtain Clothes
-Savewarp
###################
#### Segment 2 ####
Rupees: 0 Joy: 0
-Climb ladder
-Aryll cutscene
-Obtain Telescope
-Zoom in on mailbox
-Cutscene
-Sidehop off balcony
-Talk to Ocra at Ocra's House
[Cycles 1-3 is done with quick slashes]
[Cycles 4-6 is done as said]
-Obtain Sword
-Savewarp
###################
#### Segment 3 ####
Rupees: 0 Joy: 0
-Go up to FoF
-Quickspin log for 20 rupees
-JS onto slanted log and sidehop to Bokoblins
[Defeat both bokoblins with 4 thrusts simutaniously]
[Cut grass for rupees if able]
-Cutscene
-Go to Link's House
[Cut bushes in front of house]
-Climb ladder, backflip off into cutscene
-Obtain Shield
-Savewarp
###################
#### Segment 4 ####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 0
-Swim to Tetra
-Cutscene
-Save (Optional)
###################
#### Segment 5 ####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 0
-Enter Ship
-Drop roll to Niko
[Just before ledge neutral the control stick]
-Niko cutscene
-Complete ropes course
[Mash A after jumping for the ropes]
[On second to last rope, postion yourself so you will swing onto Niko's ledge]
-Obtain Spoils Bag
-Savewarp
###################
#### Segment 6 ####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 0
-Climb ladder
-Tetra cutscene
-Start Gossip Stone cutscene
-Save
###################
#### Segment 7 ####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 0
-Get 40 rupees in courtyard
-Proceed upward and jump into window
-Climb ladder and kill Bokoblin
[Quickspin Bokoblin off ledge]
-Proceed to Hanging Boat room
-Get past Moblin
-Outside skip the final Moblin
-Get Sword back
-Defeat Bokoblin with 6 quick slashes
-Open door
-Cutscene
-Save
###################
#### Segment 8 ####
Rupees: 60 Joy: 0
-Watch small cutscene
-Take route to right
-Grab 20 rupees near bench area
-Obtain Sail
-Savewarp
###################
#### Segment 9 ####
Rupees: 0 Joy: 0
-Fast sail to Dragon Roost (B6)
-Optimize segment to obtain at least 20 rupees
-Obtain Wind Waker
-Learn Wind's Requiem
-Set wind South
-Savewarp
###################
#### Segment 10####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 0
-Do rock skip
-Cutscene
-Enter mountain
-Cutscene (Obtain delivery bag)
-Go up to Medli
-Obtain Letter
-Drop roll through door
-Give Komali the letter
-Go to dry fountain
-Talk to Medli then throw her up to ledge
-Cutscene (Obtain Bottle)
-Collect water then climb ladder
-Blast rock, swim across
-Lower first platform
-Skip second platform with a Jumpslash or bomb boost
-Enter DRC
-save
###################
#### Segment 11####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 0
-Block puzzle
-Jumpslash over bar then quickspin Bokoblin
-Light both torches
[Light second torch by throwing stick]
-Obtain key and open locked door
-Jump down to the block.
-Pull block once
-Bomb the rock, rolling into the door as it explodes
-SKip lava island cutscene then climb latter
-Attack Bokoblin and grab dropped sword
-Slash the wooden bars then throw sword at higher bar
-Obtain key
-Savewarp
###################
#### Segment 12####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 0
-Return to main room
-Open locked door
-Quickspin bokoblin then grab stick
-Ignight wooden bars then step on switch and proceed
[Throw stick at bars when lit]
-Climb ladder and clear gap.
-Skip ledge hanging
[Run off ledge and grab onto wood ledge]
-Blast rock, rolling into the door during explosion, enter door
-Climb blocks by moving middle ones only
-Pull block once then climb up and light stick
-Throw stick torwards wooden bars and jump roll while the stick is being thrown
-Grab then use key to continue
-Grab Kargorok key, using it to continue
-Light stick then torches
-Open door
-Blast open vase and run to other side and open door
-Roll into wall and kill bokolin in the jar with slow stabs
-Kill other 2 Bokoblins similarly
[Collect worthwhile Joy pendants if viable]
-Climb up ladder then enter door
-Grab pot of water then make an island over lava jet
-Blast rock covering yellow warp pot
-Blast rock blocking door, rolling during the explosion
-Run up stairs and kill both Bokoblins simutaniously with quick stabs
[Collect any rupees or Joy Pendants during idle time]
-Kill Moblin with quick stabs
-Obtain Grapple from Medli
-Savewarp
###################
#### Segment 13####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 0
-Enter green pot, grappling 2 Joy Pendants along the way
-DRC Boss Key shortcut
-Grapple onto the post then proceed through door
-Right angle jump to lower ledge
-Proceed to Boss Key room
-Jumpslash Magtail into ball and put it on switch
-Sidehop right afterwards
-Obtain Boss Key
-savewarp
###################
#### Segment 14####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 2
-Enter green then blue pot, grappling 2 Joy Pendants before green
-Grapple to other side
-Break pot for a Joy Pendant
-Go through Boss Door
-Two Cycle Ghoma
-Exit Dungeon
-Cutscene (Obtain Din's Pearl)
-Save
###################
#### Segment 15####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Sail South to Forest Haven (F6)
-Conduct wind NW
-Save
###################
#### Segment 16####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Grapple post
[Position rock wall in the way to skip Grapple throwing scene]
-Proceed into Forest Haven
-Quickspin Chus
-Cutscene
-Obtain Deku Leaf
-Savewarp
###################
#### Segment 17####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Sail to cyclone near FW
-Jump out of KoRL and use Deku Leaf and cyclone to fly into FW
-Save
###################
#### Segment 18####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Use Deku Nut on first door
-Use Baba Buds to travel up room
-Use bomb on the door
-Glide to platform
-Kill boko baba to create baba bud
-Use buds to get to the top platform
-Glide to platform
-Ride back with seed then throw seed at door, entering it
-Blow seed out of the trap then throw seed at door
-Make your way around Giant flower room to the Deku Seed
-Use seed on door
-Jump on first moving tenticle
-Aim a Deku Leaf blast to uncover blue warp vase
-Go through door you broke with seed
-Throw bomb at the gate
-Clip through vines from the right with a roll while invincible from damage
-Obtain Key
-savewarp to entrance
###################
#### Segment 19####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Enter green warp vase
-Open locked door
-Glide to platform
-Use Baba Buds to make your way to Boomerang room
-Kill Mothula with jumpslash & quickspins
-Obtain Boomerang
-Savewarp
###################
#### Segment 20####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Enter green warp vase
-Cut the giant flower down with boomerang
-Time a jump so you fall to the flower during flower falling cutscene
-Take path to the right/open door/quickspin flower
-Navigate through tunnel with flower
-Hit 5 switches with boomerang/fall down to gate before last switch is hit
-Obtain Boss Key
-Savewarp
###################
#### Segment 21####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Enter green warp vase
-Jump down to door
-Hit flowers with boomerang, then enter
-Kill both Mothulas with one quickspin
-Go into boss room
-SC Kalle Demos
-Exit Dungeon
-Cutscene
-Obtain Farore's Pearl
-Savewarp
###################
#### Segment 22####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Sail North to Farore's Pearl placement (D6)
-Place pearl
-Save
###################
#### Segment 23####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Sail WNW to Din's Pearl placement quadrent (C4)
-Enter cyclone, warping to Greatfish Isle (D2)
-Greatfish Isle cutscene
-Save
###################
#### Segment 24####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Sail North to Mother and Child Island (B2)
-Enter tornado, warping to Windfall Island (B4)
-Cutscene
-Set wind SE
-Save
###################
#### Segment 25####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Shortcut to Bomb house
-Go into house
-Cutscene
[Manipulate for best password]
-Save
###################
#### Segment 26####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Use password to enter ship
-Drop roll to Niko
[Just before ledge neutral the control stick]
-Cutscene
-Complete rope course
-Obtain Bombs
-Savewarp
###################
#### Segment 27####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Sail South to Din's Pearl Island (C4)
-Set Din's pearl
-Enter cyclone, warping to Outset
-Cutscene
-Save
###################
#### Segment 28####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Sail into whirlpool
-Blast open door with 5 bombs
-Cutscene
-Obtain Nayru's Pearl
-Set wind NE
-Savewarp
###################
#### Segment 29####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Sail NE to Nayru placement (E5)
-Place pearl
-Cutscene
-Sail into ToG
-Save
###################
#### Segment 30####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Do fastest ToG break
-Go through door
-Place 2 armoses(sidehop while carrying)
-Roll into left switch to catch elevator
-Go through right door
-Glide to moving platform then jump to door
-Call statue
-Guide him to other side
-Go to main room with statue and learn Command Melody
-Go through next door
-Glide to other side and go through door
-Glide to other side and call statue
-Step on switch and conduct CM
-Guide the statue across bridge
-Glide to statue
-Enter door, then leave staue on Bow room switch
-Glide to Bow room
-Kill Darknut
-Obtain Bow
-Exit room then shoot eye
-Glide to statue
-Grab it then go to the main room
-Go through next door
-Jump down to lower door and go through
-Glide to the chest platform and obtain key
-Sidehop into void
-Climb up ladder
-Glide to back of scale and jump onto high platform
-Open locked door
-Jump onto block and glide to statue
-Get statue and sidehop to the exit
-Throw him on one scale then throw 4 armoses onto other scale
-Proceed through door to main room
-Go into pink light
-Bomb boost over lasers
-Obtain Boss Key and defeat armoses with Quickspins
-Proceed through door
-Sidehop over two beamos lasers and jumpslash over the last two
-Stock up on arrows and open door
-Defeat Gohdan
-Exit room
-Grapple bell
-Proceed to underwater Hyrule
-Go in Castle
-Cutscene
-Save
###################
#### Segment 31####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Complete Puzzle
-Go to MS room
-Cutscene (Obtain MS)
-Save
###################
#### Segment 32####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Exit room
-Defeat enemy hoarde [Ignore Spoils]
[Defeat Hoarde with quick stabs]
[Savewarp if away from exit after hoard]
-Exit Castle
-Proceed to Great Sea
-Set wind NW
-Save
###################
#### Segment 33####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Sail NW to Cyclos (C4)
-Defeat Cyclos (Obtain BoG)
-Warp to Windfall
-Sail to NFI (B1)
-Blast rock
-Talk to Great Fairy (Obtain Purse Upgrade)
-Savewarp
###################
#### Segment 34####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Sail West to FF (A1)
-Blast Door
-Save
###################
#### Segment 35####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-2 Cycle PG
[8 Quickspins]
*[Keep PG grounded]*
-Obtain Skull hammer
-Hit pegs
-Glide over to half ladder
-Proceed through FF
-Go through big door
-Cutscene
-Save
###################
#### Segment 36####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Proceed up staircase
-Bash HK with hammer
-Cutscene
-Kill HK
[Manipulate seg for quick Mask battle]
[SC HK with Quickspins]
-Proceed to Ganon
-Cutscene
-Go into Castle
-Save
###################
#### Segment 37####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Go to MS room
-Cutscene
-Save
###################
#### Segment 38####
Rupees: 20 Joy: 5
-Proceed to Great Sea
-Warp to MCI (B2) (Obtain Fire/Ice Arrows)
-Warp to DR (B6)
-Sail torward 200 rupees
-Shoot bombs with arrow
-Obtain 200 rupees
-Set wind SE
-Save
###################
#### Segment 39####
Rupees: 220 Joy: 5
-Sail south to Fire Mountain (C6)
-Shoot Ice arrow
-Proceed up mountain & into grotto
-Hop on side cliff & glide to magtails
-Kill Magtails with parry attack
-Obtain Power Bracelets
-Save
###################
#### Segment 40####
Rupees: 220 Joy: 5
-Warp to SFI (F4)
-Sail east to Ice Ring Isle(F5)
-Shoot fire arrow
-Glide into mouth
-Run past wind
-Obtain Iron Boots
-Save
###################
#### Segment 41####
Rupees: 220 Joy: 5
-Warp to Outset (G2)
-Sail east to ET (G3)
-Lift rock and proceed inward
-Learn EGL
-Save
###################
#### Segment 42####
Rupees: 220 Joy: 5
-Warp to DR (B6)
-Rock skip
-Proceed into mountain
-Go up top and through door near mailman game
-Glide across gap
-Get on rail and jump on ledge (skip ladder)
-Talk to Medli and conduct EGL
-Save
###################
#### Segment 43####
Rupees: 220 Joy: 5
-Warp to Outset (G2)
-Sail east to ET (G3)
-Conduct EGL
-Save inside ET
###################
#### Segment 44####
Rupees: 220 Joy: 5
-Glide with Medli across gap and cancel fly
-Sidehop up stairs and fly to first platform
-Step on platform and throw Medli torward other
-Conduct CM while she's in air
-Fly to other switch and activate it
-Fly to door and return
-Jump and get Medli and proceed through door
-Kill all red and green chus as link
-Move medli's mirror as link over black chus
-Kill them all with hammer
-Grab Medli, proceed through door
-Jump off ledge and fly over fogged switch
-Cancel fly and jump attack the switch in fog
-Grab Medli and proceed through door
-Throw her where the light will spawn
-Climb ladder, and push block
[On final push sidehop off]
-Conduct CM, reflect light on chest then return
-Grab Medli and exit room
-Open locked door
-Jump up ledges and throw Medli on higher ledge
-Deku leaf bomb boost up ledge
[Or glide to ledge (very difficult)]
-Push block down, grab Medli and proceed
-Fly cancel into leaf glide to get to higher ledge
-Go through door
-Kill Moblins
-Jumpslash poe's lantern with hammer then drop bomb and let it curse you
-Slash bomb to kill poe
-Repeat on second poe
-Go to small key tomb room
-Glide near tomb trigger then double back to platform
-Use boomerang to get key and backflip torward door while key comes back
-Exit
-Open locked door
-Use bomb on stalfos
[Slash bomb to cut explode time]
-Boomerang head and hit with SH
-Repeat on two other Stalfos
-Obtain Mirror Shield
-Save
###################
#### Segment 45####
Rupees: 220 Joy: 5
-Go to room with head
-Grab Medli at left door
-Reflect light onto both eyes from same spot
-Proceed downstairs
-Run over to EGL stone
-Conduct EGL and proceed
-Go through door on left by reflecting light into statue
-Fly across gap with Medli
-Move statue into gap
-Hit switch with hammer
-Reflect light onto statue in other room
-Exit room by flying across gap with meldi
-Proceed through room straight ahead (leave Medli)
-Get key and exit
-Jump on small pillar with Medli and fly torward platform with locked door
-Time fly cancel so Medli lands on upper platform and you hang
-With Medli,Open locked door and proceed
-Proceed to other EGL stone
-Conduct it and proceed
-Blast open vase
-Fly cancel to bottom door (go through door)
-Use CM on Medli to hit switch
-Push first block into place
-Be Medli melt wall and return
-Move second statue in place
-Melt next wall with Link and place third statue
-Reflect light into statues eye's with medli and link
-Get around 210 rupees in alcoves persay
[Count is random]
-Go downstairs and go through door
-Kill Darknut and 2 bubbles
-Obtain Boss Key
-Save
###################
#### Segment 46####
Rupees: 430 Joy: 5
-Go to chu room
-Restock on arrows
-Go into vase
-Glide over to Boss room
-Kill Jalhalla
[Quickspin Poes]
-Cutscene
-Exit dungeon
-Cutscene
-Save
###################
#### Segment 47####
Rupees: 430 Joy: 5
-Set wind NE
-Warp to Windfall (B4)
-Sail to WT (A4)
-Break wind stone
-Learn WGA
-Save
###################
#### Segment 48####
Rupees: 430 Joy: 5
-Warp to Forest Haven
Note that the route isn't finished yet. So some of these segments aren't final and we're still brainstorming with the rupee/pendant/triforce route. Any body else have some ideas or would like to help with the route?
Enemy Supersliding can also be done with Bokoblins iirc. May work on other enemys too.
IMO, granny's soup isn't really worth collecting at all. As Sparkle said it takes around a minute to collect and the only battles where the soup would really save time would be the hoarde in Hyrule Castle and the Savage Labyrinth. Using the soup glitch to refill magic takes around an unwanted 5 seconds while a small detour to some grass/pots/etc would only take 2 at the most.
Sparkle also mentioned savewarping at sea to cut off some sailing time. I'll see if I could test that soon.
The triforce pieces on the bottom of the Sea are set in different random locations. For example the one at Outset could be placed either on at the back or the front of the island. So optimizing segments is key here. Btw, the game sets the location when you open the charts.
On another note a trick that could be tested right now is trying to skip the Mirror Shield mini boss battle. I've come very close on console to grabbing up to the ledge by simply gliding with the leaf from a coffin. Btw, you can only grab on to the ledge from the front of the platform. (the part of the ledge where the stairs would fall)
So what do you think about the route?
You know, you don't have to save in a lot of places, unless if you're going to save warp, but only if it's faster.
Anyways, I like the idea of how you get all those rupees, but there may not be any need for that if your using the rupees for the triforce charts.
Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
TakaM wrote:
A USB loader has recently come out for the Wii, it allows you to load ISOs off a USB storage device.
Currently it only loads Wii games (though you can trick it into thinking GCN ISOs are Wii ISOs), what I'm getting at is do you guys think this could eventually have the tools incorporated to make GCN and Wii TAS's possible?
Really off-topic but holy shit TakaM, you're here? D: I never knew.
My published movies
[03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ...
[03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ?
[03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes!
[03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke
That ToG break at the start, thats now the slowest method, and one of the hardest too. The fastest method manages to skip hovering from the roof, and glides from that piller Link climbs on top of. Unreal found it a long while ago, but the video is lost. The are 2 OoB methods I found (no videos of course), but the one where you ledge clip with a dormant Armos off the NE most pillar aginst the North wall could be pretty close time wise?
Chart locations are determined when you open the chart.
Moblin SS videos. You can do some incredible jumps with this, ones that put LJA to shame, but there arn't any videos showing acrobatic stuff...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpkCiKNByaghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YnwmKsR9cc
You know, you don't have to save in a lot of places, unless if you're going to save warp, but only if it's faster.
Anyways, I like the idea of how you get all those rupees, but there may not be any need for that if your using the rupees for the triforce charts.
90% of the saves in the current route are because savewarping saves time. This will not be true of as many places in a TAS because of how it is timed, but in a console run every segment is timed from first character movement till you save. That's by SDA rules, anyway.
We recently found out that you can save a few seconds of SDA timing in many places at sea by savewarping right after entering a new square on the 7000x7000 grid. This will be used at least once on almost every if not every instance where sailing from A to B is necessary. Sub 6 hours is possible with SDA timing and these savewarps.
MrSparkle wrote:
Chart locations are determined when you open the chart.
No, they're determined before that, possibly upon starting a new game. The sunken treasures, including triforce pieces, stay in their respective squares, but are randomly distributed somewhere around the island, making each run unique. Even if you use copied files and experimentation to get yourself to the exact location you need to be to pull up the treasure, you will only hit the ocean floor or pull up junk until you open the chart. But, you can make two copies of a file, open a chart in one, and the treasure will be in the same location if you open the chart in the other file, even if you go do other things first, wait a few hours, etc.
So far all the glitches and exploits discovered in this game have to do with physics or quirks due to small frame windows for events that actually shouldn't be allowed to happen (i.e., yesterday, through the course of mashing A+B to get through the text of a cutscene, I drew my sword at one point). Sliding, item selection glitches, OoB and other clipping. No tricking the logic or corrupting memory just yet, although that would be wonderful. When the time comes around and we have working GCN emulators with rerecording years from now, you'll need to find something like that, or a glitch allowing constant hyperspeed, to really shave hours off this game and make it worth a TAS. Barring a huge discovery, I honestly wouldn't expect the first TAS of this game to get below 5.5 hours. When the time comes when it's possible, there are many other GCN games that should be worked on before one like this.
Hey, if anyone is starting in the future or working on this project for the wind waker, I'd love to help out and maybe help, work on a team and several glitches and stuff. :)
I really don't know why everyone is so down on this game. I honestly didn't think it was THAT BAD.
There really are worse games out there. -.-
No one is saying that the game is actually bad, it's just doesn't rank very well as a Zelda game and contains many elements which make it inappropiate for Speedrunning.
New TAS-only trick found today that basically blows the game apart: superswimming without forest water.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktEAg1297-w
This is done by alternating opposing directions every frame, so it's near impossible to do on console. Hopefully this will generate some interest in a TAS.
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Paraxade wrote:
New TAS-only trick found today that basically blows the game apart: superswimming without forest water.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktEAg1297-w
This is done by alternating opposing directions every frame, so it's near impossible to do on console. Hopefully this will generate some interest in a TAS.
Reminds me of the BLJ. Can enough speed be obtained by doing this to pass through doors? (I haven't played the game in years, but I think I remember dungeon entrances that have stone slabs and such in front of them). Regardless, it cuts pretty much everything out of the game that would make it boring to watch in a TAS. I'm very pumped.
i believe the king of red lions is required to knock down the stone slab at outset blocking jabun's pearl and to pull up triforce charts, and possibly in a few other places to avoid crashing the game; other than that, the vast majority of the sailing should be skippable in a TAS.
could this be used to leave Outset without getting on the pirate ship at the very beginning of the game? Or perhaps skip the sail in windfall island? Or, in general, could this be used to get past those annoying moments when the KoRL tells you not to go this way and turn back?
How likely is it that we're ever going to see any form of Tingle Tuner support for Dolphin? At the moment it's required to do most of the speed tricks involving [URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pDCHF_VKGA]Zombie Hovering[/URL] (it's used to heal Link so he doesn't actually die).
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Kuwaga wrote:
How likely is it that we're ever going to see any form of Tingle Tuner support for Dolphin? At the moment it's required to do most of the speed tricks involving [URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pDCHF_VKGA]Zombie Hovering[/URL] (it's used to heal Link so he doesn't actually die).
Tingle Tuner, I forgot about that. It requires the GBA hookup, right?
