Joined: 5/17/2007
Posts: 48
Not to revive a dead topic, but... Several months ago I finished a run on this on hard. This is my first (and to date, only) TAS that I have seen through to completion. I didn't think it was quite good enough for submission for a few various reasons, such as the unoptimization of the Simon Greedwell fight (I went back and redid it about 260 frames faster, but couldn't splice that in because enemies started firing on different frames later on), not using 2 players, a couple of missed shots that I was too lazy to edit out, etc. A few notes regarding things which have been discussed in this thread:
    -Bullets do 1 damage each, regardless of player. I tested this with at least the first 3 characters, I can't remember if I tested it with Cormano. -Bosses and objects guarding bosses receive no more than 1 damage per frame, regardless of how many bullets hit on that frame. I haven't tested it too extensively, but it seems this may actually be capped at 1 damage every other frame (i.e. if bullets hit on 2 consecutive frames, only the first actually does damage). This indicates that a 2 player run would actually provide little room for optimization over a 1 player run, except perhaps against the twins. -I think there was something else but I can't remember it right now.
Anyway, I'd like to get some feedback on this, I've sorta been considering rerunning it recently using 2 players. I'd also like some tips on making a 2 player run, like if there's some way to record P1 for a short bit and then go back and record P2 separately. My keyboard really doesn't like me holding down enough keys simultaneously to do too much recording both at the same time. Anyway, here it is.
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
Thread resurrection + finished WIP/TAS = win. Let's see... -You might want to shoot at the earliest possible frame. Purely a style thing. -Is sliding is faster than walking? I'm not sure if anyone ever tested that. It's not much of an issue because the screen is almost always autoscrolling, but it might save some time here and there. I like what you did with the controller between levels. :D
I'd also like some tips on making a 2 player run, like if there's some way to record P1 for a short bit and then go back and record P2 separately. My keyboard really doesn't like me holding down enough keys simultaneously to do too much recording both at the same time.
IIRC, Adelikat is able to do something like that in FCEU, but there probably isn't a Snes9x equivalent. There's always the auto-hold feature, though.
Joined: 5/17/2007
Posts: 48
Dromiceius wrote:
-You might want to shoot at the earliest possible frame. Purely a style thing.
As far as the bosses are concerned, I thought I did. Towards the end I started to leave some enemies alive a bit longer so they had a chance to shoot at me and give me something to dodge.
Dromiceius wrote:
-Is sliding is faster than walking? I'm not sure if anyone ever tested that. It's not much of an issue because the screen is almost always autoscrolling, but it might save some time here and there.
After completing the run, I decided it might have been a good idea to test that. At the start of the run, I went on the assumption that since it starts slow, then goes fast, then slow again at the end that it averaged out to walking speed. This is actually why I slid several times in Wigwam's stage right by slope changes: I could get through the fast part of the slide, and a bug would cancel the slide before I went through the slow part at the end. Anyway, I performed a rather inaccurate test which seemed to show that walking is slower than jumping, which in turn is slower than sliding. But since your walking speed is already faster than the camera speed, sliding provides little optimization.
Joined: 12/20/2004
Posts: 226
I've worked on a speed run of this game on and off and I can say the most important part about sliding isn't the speed, but how far it puts you on the right of the screen. Basically, the game scrolls as long as if you're far enough to the right of the screen (I'd say the right third of the screen). Sliding a bunch gives you more leniency because each slide pushes you closer to the right of the screen. In theory, you don't have to move at all as long as if you're on the right third or so of the screen. In other words, if you're all the way on the right edge of the screen, you can move left a little and still scroll the screen.
Joined: 12/20/2004
Posts: 226
Sorry to bump up such an old thread, but I have a question that maybe an experienced TASer can answer. I was shooting Sir Richard Rose one day, like 7:20 in this video, but with Cormano, and somehow I managed to kill him in about two seconds. Not just destroy the balcony that's protecting him, I managed to completely bypass his second form. The problem being of course, I have no idea how I did this, and I can't recreate this. P.S. If you're wondering why I'm asking this question, yes, I'm going to do a speedrun of this game fairly soon.
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Too bad I can't check this right now, since I'm at work. But it sounds like a serious sequence break. Is it possible that you landed the shots directly at Sir Richard Rose instead of shooting the barricade?
Joined: 12/20/2004
Posts: 226
I doubt it, all I remember is shooting diagonally down-right like usual.
Joined: 4/3/2007
Posts: 27
mikwuyma wrote:
Sorry to bump up such an old thread, but I have a question that maybe an experienced TASer can answer. I was shooting Sir Richard Rose one day, like 7:20 in this video, but with Cormano, and somehow I managed to kill him in about two seconds. Not just destroy the balcony that's protecting him, I managed to completely bypass his second form. The problem being of course, I have no idea how I did this, and I can't recreate this. P.S. If you're wondering why I'm asking this question, yes, I'm going to do a speedrun of this game fairly soon.
Well, I think it's clear what caused you to kill Richard Rose in very little time instead of destroying the balcony as usual : there's surely some pixel-precision place on the balcony, surely very near of Richard Rose but not "at him", from where if you shoot diagonally down-right, your bullets will be shooting at him instead of at the balcony. And since you're shooting a point-blank range and with many bullets, you kill the boss as fast as gamely possible (like if there's a limit of one bullet damage for every other frame, and this boss has 50 HP, it would take 100 frames which comes down to 2 little seconds, just like the time you said you took to kill him).
sgrunt
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(Belatedly) merged two threads on this game. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
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Schnretzl movie is the only one still available for download, so I'm going to use it for comparison to make my run of this game. But my objective will be a little different: One player controls two characters with just one controller! Let's see if this works.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
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Dooty, I doubt that it would be acceptable, as it is not a very interesting goal choice. Having 2 characters controlled with 1 controller would make for a very boring TAS. Additionally there are multiple examples of single TASers creating a multiplayer TAS. You may want to use FatRatKnight's multitrack script, adapted for SNES.
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Thank you for your advice DarkKobold, I did some tests and you're right, it's not looking so good... I'll try to beat at least the first boss, just for the sake of it, thanks again. Um... not so bad after all, ~280 frames faster than schnretzl movie (up to Simon Greedwell, that is), here it is.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
jmosx36
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I have a question Does this game for SNES will be accepted on this site? It's because there is a submission for genesis
Currently making a route for Super Bomberman 5 200% TASes i'm planning: aero fighters, tg3000 (again), gradius 3, bust a move, bust a move plus, gradius rebirth, smg, smg2, mp9, gh3 (wii)
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Link to video I have this WIP of Sunset Riders Do you have any question about improvements? I need your opinion
Currently making a route for Super Bomberman 5 200% TASes i'm planning: aero fighters, tg3000 (again), gradius 3, bust a move, bust a move plus, gradius rebirth, smg, smg2, mp9, gh3 (wii)
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That was plenty entertaining for me. As far as the chances of the submission being accepted, as long as it's well-optimized, it'll be fine. The Genesis and SNES versions are decidedly NOT the same game.
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jmosx36
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Link to video RNG manipulation for the boss to make the boss look out to be able to shoot him Killed before he touches the ground The only thing optimizable in this level is the boss fight
Currently making a route for Super Bomberman 5 200% TASes i'm planning: aero fighters, tg3000 (again), gradius 3, bust a move, bust a move plus, gradius rebirth, smg, smg2, mp9, gh3 (wii)
jmosx36
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Link to video I need your opinion or your suggestions to optimize this run I'm starting to belive the damage counter is bug
Currently making a route for Super Bomberman 5 200% TASes i'm planning: aero fighters, tg3000 (again), gradius 3, bust a move, bust a move plus, gradius rebirth, smg, smg2, mp9, gh3 (wii)
Challenger
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How much damage does each level gun between Steve and Billy vs Bob and Cormano?
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
jmosx36
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Challenger wrote:
How much damage does each level gun between Steve and Billy vs Bob and Cormano?
The bullets of steve and billy move faster than those of bob and cormano, besides the bullets of bob and cormano they are scattered and it is not so possible to concentrate all the damage in the boss like steve and billy. It also saves 1 frame at the start
Currently making a route for Super Bomberman 5 200% TASes i'm planning: aero fighters, tg3000 (again), gradius 3, bust a move, bust a move plus, gradius rebirth, smg, smg2, mp9, gh3 (wii)
jmosx36
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Link to video The luck manipulation in this run is going more oriented to the actions of the second player I have to free the girl to reduce the transition time of killing the boss. Link to video Does someone have a suggestion? I'm really thinking i'm not optimizing this run
Currently making a route for Super Bomberman 5 200% TASes i'm planning: aero fighters, tg3000 (again), gradius 3, bust a move, bust a move plus, gradius rebirth, smg, smg2, mp9, gh3 (wii)
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Seems for me that the fourth boss could be manipulated a bit better for the 1 player not descend when a bomb is thrown near him. I don't know if can be still possible or not. Other thing I've forgot to mention since this run was started: I remember that while the golden power-up allows autofiring by holding the button, the "normal" power-up can be fired a bit faster with turbo button. Actually I haven't checked the RAM search yet to know how is better.
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.
jmosx36
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Schnretzl wrote:
A few notes regarding things which have been discussed in this thread:
    -Bullets do 1 damage each, regardless of player. I tested this with at least the first 3 characters, I can't remember if I tested it with Cormano. -Bosses and objects guarding bosses receive no more than 1 damage per frame, regardless of how many bullets hit on that frame. I haven't tested it too extensively, but it seems this may actually be capped at 1 damage every other frame (i.e. if bullets hit on 2 consecutive frames, only the first actually does damage). This indicates that a 2 player run would actually provide little room for optimization over a 1 player run, except perhaps against the twins. -I think there was something else but I can't remember it right now.
Green bullets are not so efficient, at least for the bosses
Currently making a route for Super Bomberman 5 200% TASes i'm planning: aero fighters, tg3000 (again), gradius 3, bust a move, bust a move plus, gradius rebirth, smg, smg2, mp9, gh3 (wii)
jmosx36
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Currently making a route for Super Bomberman 5 200% TASes i'm planning: aero fighters, tg3000 (again), gradius 3, bust a move, bust a move plus, gradius rebirth, smg, smg2, mp9, gh3 (wii)
jmosx36
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Link to video Nothing so much interesting to say Link to video This run looks enough to be accepted here?
Currently making a route for Super Bomberman 5 200% TASes i'm planning: aero fighters, tg3000 (again), gradius 3, bust a move, bust a move plus, gradius rebirth, smg, smg2, mp9, gh3 (wii)
Challenger
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VolcanoStormWind wrote:
mikwuyma wrote:
Sorry to bump up such an old thread, but I have a question that maybe an experienced TASer can answer. I was shooting Sir Richard Rose one day, like 7:20 in this video, but with Cormano, and somehow I managed to kill him in about two seconds. Not just destroy the balcony that's protecting him, I managed to completely bypass his second form. The problem being of course, I have no idea how I did this, and I can't recreate this. P.S. If you're wondering why I'm asking this question, yes, I'm going to do a speedrun of this game fairly soon.
Well, I think it's clear what caused you to kill Richard Rose in very little time instead of destroying the balcony as usual : there's surely some pixel-precision place on the balcony, surely very near of Richard Rose but not "at him", from where if you shoot diagonally down-right, your bullets will be shooting at him instead of at the balcony. And since you're shooting a point-blank range and with many bullets, you kill the boss as fast as gamely possible (like if there's a limit of one bullet damage for every other frame, and this boss has 50 HP, it would take 100 frames which comes down to 2 little seconds, just like the time you said you took to kill him).
Do you tested it, jmosx36?
My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.