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Comicalflop wrote:
ThMarksman: does an all medals run really have that much detouring to collect everything to make it 3+ hours?
Aren't you required to beat the game 5 times? It may not pass 3 hours, but I would think it'd be close.
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Comicalflop wrote:
Derakon wrote:
You should write a short story in the background while TASing the game. :)
Keep in mind that the rainbow meter runs out; it's not infinite, and you need to wait a while before it refills. And, that precious resource will be needed to save time, draw ledges/slopes, and create shortcuts, so you're limited there as well, not to mention spam tapping Kirby when he doesn't have the wheel will prevent you from drawing. I thought it was only the explodish boxes (with the bomb symbol) that you could tap to remove them? Also, yes, the physics of the game (creating new routes using the rainbow lines) will be incredibly complicated. This is probably going to be one of those games where some different strategy is going to be inevitably faster per room. ThMarksman: does an all medals run really have that much detouring to collect everything to make it 3+ hours?
Firstly, i think the optimum tapping rate was roughly one tap every 6 or so frames, so that leaves other opportunities for drawing some extra lines, breaking boxes, etc. The obvious exception being during the levels requiring kirby to spend a lot of time off of the ground. Also, getting 250/250 medals requires getting every medal in the main game, beating the 3 medal records in all of the time trial and line trial parts of the rainbow run, unlocking every character then re-passing the game with each of the 4 other unlockable characters, and finally getting a rank AAA in all 3 subgames. Because each of the subgames is more or less a giant endurance test, this would take a fair bit of time as well. And when i say 3+ hours, that is a low estimate. Although some characters such as the meta-knight can pass the game quite quickly, others such as king dee-dee are quite slow. The waddle-dee ball is just a pain. Having said that, the king dee-dee ball can break one or two of the levels, using his long range attack to hit buttons you aren't supposed to be able to reach.
Post subject: basic findings, observations, and test movie
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0210D599 1 byte signed = X Speed This should help in optimizing things better. For instance, your spam boosting of Kirby is not good in the slightest. And yes, you can tap ANY box to make it disappear. I'll make a few tests, and post them here when I'm done. Edit: I don't want to spend too much time into this game, so here's what I found. -Spamming the boost is bad (*except for a trick I'll mention below), you really need to watch your speed to find out when is the best time per boost. Sometimes more than 10 frames or more per boost. What you want to do is, press it when your speed goes back down to your average, since pressing the boost once will bring your speed higher than average then back to normal. Watch my input, and watch the speed address, and you'll see what I mean. -The best way to test when to boost is that if you press it too early, it either does nothing or worse, slows you down. (yes, the boost can slow you down if you press it too fast.) -Slopes are your friend, but they can;t be too steep (unlike in say sonic where the steeper, the better.) Too steep and you actually slow down, rather than accelerate. -While slope accelerating, Your speed does weird stuff, but i think spamming the boost here is actually a good thing and racks up your speed nicely. -I hate the stylus input for the rainbow lines. Each frame, the next point can't be to far away. Lame. -Going over the enemies, as I said, saves time. As you can tell from movie, it's not easy. -You can create a down slope that goes right through Kirby and he'll automatically catch it. I do this right at the beginning, you can maybe, if you're good enough, make it work for when Kirby is at the peak of a jump. (too soon and he goes underneath it.) This movie gets to the very first medal 117 frames faster than your movie. I get Kirby almost up to full wheel speed occasionally. AVI demo .dsm So, yeah, hope this helps.
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Post subject: Re: basic findings, observations, and test movie
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Comicalflop wrote:
This movie gets to the very first medal 117 frames faster than your movie. I get Kirby almost up to full wheel speed occasionally. AVI demo .dsm So, yeah, hope this helps.
Now that was better (i got mediafire working btw)
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Sweet, thanks for the X Speed address. Nice movie, BTW.
See Youtube page (GIRfanaticTAS) for all runs and stuff.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yMJA7zmA2U yeah, this is pretty cool. If only kirby could be controlled like that in the normal game...
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Messing around with this game, decided to do a little test, i did the Paint Roller (Boss) On Lv2. Movie File Encode Youtube NOTE: If you use the movie file, i had to beat a stage before getting to the boss, such stage was HUMAN-Assisted, so i suggest fast forward until the boss part.
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So, i tried TASing this when i got some adresses, but the game showed to be kinda frustrated and boring to TAS, so i stopped in the sixth part of the stage :/ Movie File If anyone decide to TAS, i can share some adresses and info.
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can someone encode it? ^^
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I doubt that will happen, it's the sixth part of the first stage (AKA half of the first part of the first stage). A TAS seems pretty boring, wich is why i stopped.
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[TAS]タッチ!カービィ レインボートライアル 1-1 8.83 http://dic.nicovideo.jp/v/sm11309776
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Anyone still interested in this? I'd be happy to help plan
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You should probably post in here instead: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7444
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Here's a work in progress by GloriousLiar: Link to video Looking pretty good so far!
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Hi all. Learning how to optimize movement in this game has been quite a challenge, but I will try my best to post everything I have learned so far. Burn Preservation I've also heard runners call it "Lag Cancel" but that's not really accurate. To put it succinctly, if you are riding a line you preserve the momentum of the line while transforming into burning. If you were in a normal movement state not on a line you would hang in the air for a few frames not moving. Ink Conservation Not sure what else to call this. Basically, if you have any ink at all, you can still get the maximum stroke distance from where you're drawing. However, if you have a lot of ink, it will take a lot of ink away from you. So if you do normal strokes up until the "last drop" you can do the maximum distance on the last stroke basically for free. I know a lot more movement tech but these are two very relevant tricks that show up often. I haven't worked on documenting anything else but I will try in the near future.
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Didn’t even know doing loops made you speed up… Do you have to make contiguous lines? Can’t you just do something like ———— instead? Why is your minigames input different between the first one and second one? Are they different, or did you just redo it slightly differently but without losing/gaining frames?
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ALAKTORN wrote:
Can’t you just do something like ———— instead?
Yes you can, and I actually use that to my advantage sometimes. There is a drawback with doing this, because as soon as you leave a line that you looped on, you exit the "spinning state" where you have the air wooshing around you. This will not carry over to another line so staying contiguous is generally better. However, if you do "————" then you can keep the fast spinning animation which includes the speed, but the air will not be rushing around you. It is a very unstable state, and is very difficult to maintain across multiple lines without dropping the animation and just going to a normal line riding state.
ALAKTORN wrote:
Why is your minigames input different between the first one and second one? Are they different, or did you just redo it slightly differently but without losing/gaining frames?
Input is different because the way you accelerate on the zip pad is constant so long as you are dashing, so the frequency of dashing is irrelevant. As for how you come to a stop, it takes a fixed number of frames to completely stop, and there are multiple ways of stopping movement on the ground that have the same end result.
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GloriousLiar
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WIP 2 is up. It covers all of Arange Gorge: Ghost Grounds, Growth Grasses, and Mag Mount. The Boss Minigame I chose to do is Paint Panic. Link to video
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Great WIPs. Make sure to always backup your progress in the site's userfiles, just in case something happens.
Here, my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/dekutony
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Kurabupengin wrote:
Great WIPs. Make sure to always backup your progress in the site's userfiles, just in case something happens.
Thanks, and I'll be sure to do that.
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This looks pretty good so far. Looking forward to more.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter - some loser
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I am looking forward to more too, BTW, cool to see some love for this game
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
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Found some new tech.. water physics are weird. Basically:
    1. Get stuck against the floor 2. Wait a few frames 3. Free ink boost instantly supplied at the start of the next line
Amount supplied is proportional to the number of frames spent pinned to the ground. Found this useful in a few spots in Silver Submarine when ink reserves were low. Additionally, I started documentation for the entire TAS project, once I get a little more organized I will publicize my findings because there is a lot going on in the background that's not obvious.[/img]
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GloriousLiar
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http://bombch.us/CFC7 Google doc of all my documentation (a work in progress). Also finished through Silver Submarine last night. Gonna tackle the third boss game and maybe publish a WIP this weekend. If I do it will be my last before the final reveal.
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Post subject: High Speed Movement and Clips
GloriousLiar
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A new discovery was found that warrants a fresh start for the TAS. Late last night I was working on Dreamy Darkness when I kept getting knocked backwards violently off a line when trying to join segmented lines. The amount of speed I was getting was in the range of 30 to 40 which peaked my interest. After about an hour of playing around in Ghost Grounds, I finally was able skip a barrier only destructible by a cannon shot. I thought that was cool and could be used in a few minor places, but I took it a step further and found some other things of interest. 1. You can fly into/through nearly any type of ground or wall. 2. The momentum in some cases can be applied forward rather than backwards and something about hitting enemies preserves some of the momentum. 3. You can navigate out of bounds with certain line placements Taken from a pastebin I wrote up last night: Velocity Clips explained: When a line begins on the same pixel another line ends, it is undetermined which line should control Kirby when making contact with both. The default reaction by the game is to put Kirby at the beginning of the last line segment drawn on the current line. The conjoining of two lines has a side effect in that it makes the first line start to disappear from its origin. Now by maximizing the length of the last segment of the original line, Kirby can be instantly teleported between 30 and 40 units optimally when the game tries to correct position. If the teleportation coincides with the disappearance of the original line as a result of drawing a new one, Kirby will be teleported to a location not on a line somewhere in the air. The teleportation is misinterpreted as air speed because there is no line to be tethered to. As a result, Kirby goes flying, and this instantaneous velocity of ~30-40 allows Kirby to clip through thin walls and even in to thick ones, but upon getting stuck in a floor or wall, Kirby will be ejected almost instantly. Kirby's position out of bounds can be manipulated though with clever line placement. Videos: Example skip: Link to video Incredible launch: Link to video Getting stuck in a floor and navigating to a new room: Link to video
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