I think that splitting the star system into well-known and obscure games is a needless complication. Newcomers looking at the star lists will naturally gravitate towards runs for games they're familiar with, and if they're still interested after watching those, they'll check out the other stars.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Starred runs for lesser-known games or special achievement movies where some or many of the aspects of TAS-making are especially prominent (exceptional and apparent luck manipulation, or something like that), http://tasvideos.org/Movies-RatingY.html for the rest.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Also I think that two types of stars may be more trouble than it's worth. After all, the list of starred movies isn't especially long, so newcomers can browse the list and select with ease the games they are familiar with.
It has been quite a while since the last major update in the star list. Since then, a lot of new movies have been published, which means we can hand out a couple of new stars. (The % of TASes starred should be somewhat steady.)
Also, once a star doesn't mean always a star. To keep the list fresh, it would be good to remove some of the stars and replace them by others. (Likewise, removing a star from a movie doesn't mean it will never get it back).
It would be nice to get some opinions:
- Which TASes do you want added to the current star list and why?
- Which TASes do you want removed from the current star list?
Keep in mind that a few more TASes can be added than need to be removed. Suggesting just one movie to be added or removed is also fine, all opinions are very welcome!
As mentioned in the movie's thread: Aria of Sorrow all souls.
The only other movie I watched recently that I rated high was Banjo Kazooie. That's a maybe. It's incredibly entertaining, but it's also long.
Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow — great pacing, creative soul use, very apparent luck manipulation and movement system abuse. Probably deserves Circle of the Moon's star.
Bionic Commando — the movie looks incredibly polished now, with decent stylistic choices. At the expense of Ninja Five-0, I guess.
Gunstar Super Heroes — blazing fast, flashy, pertaining to ADD victims. Not sure if it should take Gunstar Heroes's star.
Also worth discussing:
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night any% (breaks the game apart in surprising ways);
Donkey Kong Country 102% (just very entertaining);
Chrono Trigger any% (short and confusing, though probably too confusing for beginners).
Possible stars to recycle:
Biker Mice From Mars (breakneck speed gets old quickly);
"100 CDs" Rockman & Forte (pacing problems);
Darkwing Duck (too megaman-ish, considering a lot of starred Megaman TASes);
King's Bounty (it's a great niche movie, but most likely not a perfect recommendation for beginners who search for some "oomph").
Battle of Olympus.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
The 100% souls AoS TAS and the recent soccer TAS both deserve stars, IMO. I also agree with Moozooh's suggestion of stars to recycle, with the exception of King's Bounty. I'd prefer that Gunstar Heroes keep its star over Gunstar Super Heroes, though; the additional player and the weapon combinations make the former more interesting than the latter.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
I think that the puzzle genre is really underrepresented.
I'd maybe suggest the recent Dr Mario run since the end glitch is pretty crazy, the preceeding combos fun to 'work out' whilst they're being set up and the game itself very well known.
I think that Tetris Attack/Panel de Pon would be a decent alternative choice though, given how frantic it is.
I would advocate pretty much anything being removed before King's Bounty. I think it's amongst the top 2 runs - along with Mario64. I think that being the clear leader in terms of brevity make it such an oddball, astounding run that it deserves to be recommended to all.
A lot of runs I still haven't seen so I can't pass opinions on most suggestions.
I'm just some random guy. Don't let my words get you riled - I have my opinions but they're only mine.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
No offence to King's Bounty but I think it was a really bad decision in the first place to give it a star. A few seconds of gameplay does not merit a star. There so many more runs which deserve a star than this run. I don't buy the bullcrap argument that each division should have a maximum of x stars. If a run regardless of system is astonishing, funny, fast as hell and entertaining, then it should be given a star. The day you removed Mega Man 1 its star is when I pretty much lost all respect of this system.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Well, you're free to your opinion. My counter-opinion is that King's Bounty is perhaps the best example we have of two very important aspects of TASing:
* Doing unexpected things
* Manipulating the game into doing things for you.
The fact that a game that normally takes several hours to beat is beaten in seconds instead is icing on the cake, really.
As for the "divisions" thing, I don't think it's unreasonable to want the stars to show a good cross-section of what TASVideos does, and to want there to be a limited number of stars. Those two restrictions combine to mean that not every awesome run can get a star, because there's a slightly more awesome run with otherwise similar gameplay, and having them both have stars would create redundancy.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
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Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
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AngerFist wrote:
The day you removed Mega Man 1 its star is when I pretty much lost all respect of this system.
I dislike the star system the most when the discussion turn into this. 1 movie you think has a star isn't starred and it is a loss of respect for the whole system? Chill out a bit man. Stars should be fun & rewarding. Baxter made the decision that the star list should maximize variety. MM1 & MM2 are very similar. Feel free to disagree with this, but at least give some credit that it was a reasonable decision that was thought out.
Joined: 5/23/2006
Posts: 361
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Derakon wrote:
My counter-opinion is that King's Bounty is perhaps the best example we have of two very important aspects of TASing:
* Doing unexpected things
* Manipulating the game into doing things for you.
I'm not sure I agree with that assessment. While those aspects are certainly present in the King's Bounty TAS, the whole thing is over so quickly that it's not very interesting aside from it being a neat concept. Other TASes do the same kind of thing, but have a lot of interesting gameplay and variety to balance it. Sure, King's Bounty is the most extreme in terms of its execution, but I don't see how that necessarily translates into being a good star candidate.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
adelikat wrote:
MM1 & MM2 are very similar. Feel free to disagree with this, but at least give some credit that it was a reasonable decision that was thought out.
How the hell can you say that? The gameplay is pretty similar but the glitches are done completely differently. You use completely different techniques to move.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
MM1 & MM2 are very similar. Feel free to disagree with this, but at least give some credit that it was a reasonable decision that was thought out.
How the hell can you say that? The gameplay is pretty similar but the glitches are done completely differently. You use completely different techniques to move.
A person who hasn't played Megaman games won't see a big difference. Both speed through the stages backwards through walls and rape the game.
Joined: 6/5/2006
Posts: 188
Location: Malmö, Sweden
While I agree that King's Bounty is pretty much the pinnacle of Luck Manipulation on the site and can certainly be impressive to watch for some, it almost requires having played the game before or someone next to you explaining what the hell just happened.
For that reason I do not consider it a good pick for a newcomer to watch (I can't even properly remember what the current star definition is, but I believe that "newcomer-friendly" was still there at least somewhere).
Also, even though Biker Mice From Mars is a bit too long for its own good it's just so insanely fast I can't agree with it losing the star.
Even the best player is limited by the speed of his fingers, or his mind's ability to control them. But what happens when speed is not a factor, when theory becomes reality?
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
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Dragonfangs wrote:
While I agree that King's Bounty is pretty much the pinnacle of Luck Manipulation on the site and can certainly be impressive to watch for some, it almost requires having played the game before or someone next to you explaining what the hell just happened.
For that reason I do not consider it a good pick for a newcomer to watch (I can't even properly remember what the current star definition is, but I believe that "newcomer-friendly" was still there at least somewhere).
Why would a newcomer watch a movie of a game they've never played (or even heard of) before?
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Why would a newcomer watch a movie of a game they've never played (or even heard of) before?
Because it's on a list on the frontpage titled "recommended movies".
I personally don't think we can't have confusing movies on the list, but maybe a limited amount of them. I also saw the new Chrono Trigger movie was recently suggested twice... maybe that can take Kings Bounty's star for the time being for completing a game way faster than intended?
What is the reason for the Darkwing Duck having a star? I'm not saying it doesn't deserve it, but I can't see the reason either. Maybe it's because I haven't played the game.
What is the reason for the Darkwing Duck having a star? I'm not saying it doesn't deserve it, but I can't see the reason either. Maybe it's because I haven't played the game.
It got a good amount of votes in favor of a star along with a couple of other NES games. For the time being, that one was picked, but it will now be removed in favor of another TAS. I think people voted in favor of it because it was quite fast paced, the character moved to the music, and wasn't part of a big gaming series.
Folk who are confused can easily click either of the links to read more about the submission.
I definitely consider 'confusing' to be a compliment to the TAS rather than a warning to the viewer.
I'm just some random guy. Don't let my words get you riled - I have my opinions but they're only mine.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Go give Lemmings a star. It's a category which is a bit under represented, it's an insanely famous and popular game, which has been ported to almost every platform imaginable, and the run is shocking to anyone who knows the game.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
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I think that we should add 3 more stars to the category:
SOTN, International Super Star Soccer Deluxe, and AoS "All souls".
In particular a playaround and a new platform (PSX) could add some nice variety while increasing the number of star slots available. The target for stars was to represent about 4-5% of the content of the site, it is about 3.5% now so a few more starts are in order.
A good argument could be made for All souls to get COTM's star, however.
EDIT:
Arguments for star request are greatly preferred.
SOTN:
impressive character movement, nice shortcuts, good route planning, interesting glitches, highly popular game, good example of TASing
Soccer:
A very nice playaround which is an underused category on this site. I'd like to see more impressive playarounds and starring this would go well towards that goal. And playarounds typically vary wildly in entertainment value (where many find it bad, and others find it amazing). However, this run somehow entertains a surprisingly large majority of people.
All Souls:
Does this one need arguing? It is impressive that this even exists, let alone being impressively optimized. It shows luck maniuplation at its finest and is a hugely popular TAS amongst the community.
Just trowing out here that with the recent (2009) new systems we should have at least 1 or 2 stars for those systems in order to balance things out, not saying theres forcably candidate for every of the new plateforms, but well, if theres 0 i think its not very balanced.
This was already sayd on irc, just posting out that argument as a reminder.
