Just watched the run and it looks great so far. Is there any reason you can't actually manipulate the boss into always missing the party? Sorry I haven't read the entire thread and apologize if it has already been discussed. I'm sure you've tried already but just wondering.
I managed to formulate a successful Serpent kill tonight resulting in max speed and max-1 power (by complete chance). Now I just need to get into battle on the correct RNG, and we will be on to the Dragon.
EDIT: *Sigh* It's going to take a ton of effort to pump the RNG 600 forward, at least we have the whole walk from Pandam to Padal to start.
Really late reply, I missed the last post I apologize.
In simple terms, once in any battle in a dungeon, the RNG only increases due to the attacks. The monster attack types are set for the entire fight based on the previous battle you were in. The RNG is basically a table of values at this point.
A defend moves the RNG by 1, an attack moves the RNG by 3, Healing moves it by 48 or so, the enemy attacks move it by some set amount. You can only choose amongst very limited options to move between values in the table.
This makes it entirely impossible to manipulate multiple misses in a row at will.
It's about that time again.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/597817408/To%20Doros.smvhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJeLXY86ikk
Nitrodon's pathing script was modified to brute force various RNG outcomes walking between two places.
It had been found that more RNGs pass when less enemies are on the map. One may notice the ridiculously low amount of enemies on the screen between Serpent and Dragon. The bot along with some manual input altering by me at various intervals, used about 50k rerecords in this segment. The end result was that roughly 25 frames were spent advancing the RNG by about 350 more than average between Serpent and Dragon. I don't think it would have been possible without the bot.
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Keep it up! This is extremely impressive given the limits on luck manipulation. Runs with optimized grinding are clearly not fan favorites on this site but I think that a lot of people are still interested in this.
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny
Not bad, i'm impressed. just one question, How is this game very grind heavy? is it that there are powerful bosses that you need to level massively to beat? or am i completely off?
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese
[19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
Not just powerful bosses, but powerful enemies, too. To quote from the Let's Play:
This game is notorious for its difficulty. Grinding experience levels is absolutely required, many bosses (and especially the other Apprentices) are ruthlessly hard and scale to your level to boot, and the gear you need is never available when you actually need it.
To top it off, there are parts of the game where, unless you have been grinding properly, victory against even the weakest monsters is basically impossible, and in at least one potential encounter, literally impossible. That's right, fuck this up and you cannot win this game. And it's not a bug, it's just that hard.
Oh yes, lest I forget, due to a bug, experience is rather difficult to acquire and the game caps your level lower than it's supposed to, so even if you grind out as far as possible you're never going to quite be where you need to be.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
If it's the actual game cartridge they're talking about, yeah, I see that. But, would it be the same way if it was being dumped? I've seen ROM dumps where certain bugs were added, taken away, or both.
How is this game very grind heavy? is it that there are powerful bosses that you need to level massively to beat? or am i completely off?
I'll try to give a more in-depth response.
Currently in the run Lux is level 21.
165 HP
55 MP
112 Power
111 Guard
64 Magic
92 Speed
Lux's average stats would be:
-X- = per level gains
-7- 158 HP
-2- 43 MP
-4- 85 Power (+4*2 Power Seeds) = (93)
-5- 106 Guard (+4*1 Protection Seed) = (110)
-3- 63 Magic
-3- 63 Speed (+4*3 Agility Seeds) = (75)
Magic attacks by bosses almost kill us currently at this average rate. This is why many of them are dodged in the TAS. Our dodge rates are in the 10% range or so. Also consider that you can only buy/carry 9 Potion 2's. On the way to a boss you may fight 30 or more fights, so this supply would deplete very quickly. We would rely on Kamil's Heal 2 much more, but half the enemies have MP Catcher to steal his MP. We can carry 9 M Herbs to try to boost his magic when healing is necessary.
Power and speed are the most relevant stats. Our power is 19 over the average, and our speed is 17 over the average. This gives that we have a power stat of an average Lux 5 levels higher, and a speed stat of an average Lux 6 levels higher.
In a normal game you would need to be roughly 5 levels higher to generate the same hit power and hit rate. We would need to be level 26 to match our stat manipulation.
Level 26 requires 103870 experience. Upon gaining level 21, we had 53549 experience. This equates to 31 more S Brain kills.
Note: S Brains were being killed on a roughly 20% chance of a vacuum kill. Even at level 21, they could kill me in 2 hits. They can also vacuum me. Grinding them alone as Lux, I would get killed by a vacuum frequently, and when I don't die, I'd have to heal after essentially every hit. So even to have a chance at level 21 I would need a partner, which halves my net experience gain. I now need to kill 62 of them to get from 21 to 26. (This assumes I have killed over 200 battles of suboptimal monsters to get from 13-21.) Add in the fact that the best S Brain area in the game has a 1/4 fight rate, you will engage roughly 248 battles before you kill 62 S Brains. Also you will need to stop in at the inn and/or buy more items at least every 10 fights, probably every 5.
Add this to the fact that one would need to account for how much luck manipulation the TAS is doing to not die. Level 26-30 is another 53k experience, which is essentially another 248 battles to kill 62 S Brains.
This might be good for a while, but at the end of the game you'll still be getting destroyed pretty badly at level 30. You see where this is going.
This is the nature of 7th Saga.
I've seen ROM dumps where certain bugs were added, taken away, or both.
The "bugs" were introduced in the localization process. 7th Saga, the Western version, nerfs level ups when compared to its Japanese counterpart, Elnard. But it actually gets worse. Monster stats were not adjusted at all, which is bad enough, but, most importantly, hostile apprentices gain levels as if they are in Elnard. This has the effect of making the game more difficult the more levels you gain. So, in parts of the game there is pressure to keep levels low, but, counterbalancing that are encounter after encounter that play out like boss fights. Running is risky in that a failure can deal enough damage to the party where the enemies have a permanent (and fatal) advantage. The plus side is that apprentices gain levels Elnard style when not in your party, so switching regularly can be beneficial, especially when done after a grindfest, which should always be done solo.
I wouldn't call 7th Saga overly difficult, though, but you do need in depth knowledge to play it properly.
If it's the actual game cartridge they're talking about, yeah, I see that. But, would it be the same way if it was being dumped? I've seen ROM dumps where certain bugs were added, taken away, or both.
I think that sort of thing is pretty rare, except when the developers hide bugs in the game on purpose as a means of copy protection, so that an incomplete copy or flawed emulation could activate the bug and make the game a lot harder, or freeze up at a critical moment, or anything like that.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
I have another idea. Have you tried any technique to corrupt save data? I thought it would help. Maybe it mess up experience where it's in the millions or something, as a result. Try that, Kirk! ^_^
I have purposefully avoided examining any form of save glitching in order to preserve the integrity of the run. This run was undertaken to destroy such a grind heavy game through luck manipulation, not to find a cheap way to beat the game. I have looked for other methods of glitching such as examining poison deaths and other related ideas, but nothing became of them.
If Lux was glitched to max power you would be watching a walkfest where the bosses are slaughtered. It would be roughly 30-40 minutes faster, and it would magnitudes less interesting.
I have no interest in doing a glitched run even if the possibility exists, unless it involves something more interesting than walking through the game as fast as possible.
Here's the video up to just before Gariso due to time constraints. (The WIP kills Gariso.) Nitrodon is responsible for the well-executed Monmo fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0Rcx-BdEJQ
Yeah, it desynced for me on snes9x-1.43-improvement13, and it apparently then also desyncs on v1.43 v17
Nitrodon says it was working on v1.43+ v16 (interim), and I've been using snes9x-lua-v0.06.
On 1.43-improvement13 it desynced right after grabbing the moonlight for me.
You know, this was the run that brought me to this site and kept me coming back. Nothing could better appease the spite I felt after finally beating this painful, painful game than seeing it utterly massacred by an artful TASer. Let me thank you then, good sirs, for all your hard work as I eagerly await the completion of this run.
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
This is awesome, as usual.
I do have a question though. Why don't you get Brwn in Melenam? It's not far out of the way and would up your defense, perhaps increasing your possibilities on some of those boss fights.
