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Posted: 4/22/2004 4:13 AM
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Deviance
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 706
I'm sure you can do it, you seem to be very knowledgeable at LoZ. I had the same problem when doing my punch-out speed run. I kept the emulator at 100%, and I estimate I lost a few seconds due to the reaction time. I'm not sure whether I beat the world record or not since twin galaxies only has times for the mike tyson fight. The world record for that fight is 2:35, only 17 time units faster than my run which spanned on the whole game. But I can beat that easily :P. Michael, I think we should beat the TG records and prove to the speedrun world what time attack players are truly capable of. I'd like to see the look on their faces when we "cheaters" beat their precious records. :)
Posted: 4/22/2004 6:18 AM
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TSA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 186
Heh. Calm down now. Michael got 2:15 from "power on" till "triforce". I got 2:04 in this video (which really should be 2:03 - but a controller glitch cost me to stop and lose 1 second): http://www.zhq2.com/videos/level2.wmv And I easily could have done better. At least 6-7 seconds better. I did do a 1:59 time before I decided to give Michael some proof I was beating his time . You say "so what, it's roughly 12 seconds faster". Multiply that by 9... I'm sorry. Famtasia allows you to make very impressive stuff, which is cool. And you guys could beat some TG guys. But you still have awhiles to go before you can beat the best at this game. And no - I don't plan on doing any runs on this game anytime soon.
Posted: 4/22/2004 6:35 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Maybe you just got a lot better since your did the 33 minute run. Let's assume you're good enough to only lose 20 seconds per level compared to Sleepz's video. That would give you a time of a time of 29:56. Then if I can beat each level 12 seconds slower, that would give me a time of 31:04. Even if you add on another 12 seconds per level just to be safe, that would be 32:52, which would still beat your 33 minute run. Also don't forget that I have a lot of practice with level 1 because of the challenge you posted. However, even though it does seem theoretically possible that I could get the world record, I'm sure it's much easier said than done. Edit: And also don't forget that I've been playing on an emulator with a keyboard, and that I'm not able react quite as fast as when I play with a controller. If I ever attempt to get the world record I would be playing on a real NES.
Posted: 4/22/2004 6:39 AM
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TSA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 186
Well - you don't get "retries" and you have to think on your feet the whole time. It's a little different than using Famtasia. So, yes - it is much harder to do it on a real NES even if you had the ability ;) But that's a given. I'm not saying you're bad Michael. Don't get me wrong. You're really good. I just think you need more work.
Posted: 4/22/2004 7:35 PM
Post subject: OT, but...
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fuwafuwa
Joined: 3/22/2004
Posts: 95
(TSA, do you know that the Japanese in your .sig is meaningless? :) the best i can make it out to be is: "souyoyayuke eo yusekikoae".. and i think that first character is probably 'n', not 'so', but i'm giving it the benefit of the doubt.)
Posted: 4/22/2004 7:39 PM
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TSA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 186
Bah, Bisqit asked me to remove them. Oh well, sorry about that Bisqit.
Posted: 4/22/2004 7:53 PM
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feitclub
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
オールド・スクール　＝　"old school" Your "old" is legible (barely), but your "school" is way off.
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Posted: 4/22/2004 8:11 PM
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TSA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 186
I speak English. I don't speak any Japanese. The fact that you as well as others get it is "Old School" is all I care about. If you wish to HELP me, and give me what you think is the right characters for it, I'd be happy.
Posted: 4/22/2004 8:18 PM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
TSA wrote:
give me what you think is the right characters for it
He just did.
Posted: 4/22/2004 10:00 PM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
TSA wrote:
Well - you don't get "retries" and you have to think on your feet the whole time. It's a little different than using Famtasia. So, yes - it is much harder to do it on a real NES even if you had the ability ;)
As long as I don't use save states, which was the case when I did the 2:15 level 2 speed run, there's no advantage to using Famtasia, so it's just as hard to stay on your feet the whole time. Also, if I played on a real NES, being able to use the controller would give me an advantage since I'm more used to it than the keyboard and I wouldn't have to play with my hands in an awkward position. Edit: By the way, I do realize that even though I can play through one level at a time pretty well, if I ever want to get the world record I'll have to play through all 9 levels at a time pretty well. Maybe what I should do is try making a speed run where I go through two levels quickly without save states, and then build up to three and eventually to nine.
Posted: 4/22/2004 11:26 PM
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TSA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 186
To Bisqit - Sorry, I couldn't tell cuz I can't understand. Thanks though for the info. To Michael - Hey, now you're thinking like a real player! Basically yes - You do "sections" and try to perfect them as best as possible, and then string them together in order. So you start on the first part, do it over and over until you got it. Then try adding on more. It's like memorizing a poem or speech. The only difference is things can change on you, so you need to practice a bunch to be ready for any situation. Let me know if you have any other questions or need advice, or just need to see something done.
Posted: 4/22/2004 11:47 PM
Post subject: (my last OT on the matter)
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fuwafuwa
Joined: 3/22/2004
Posts: 95
sorry for bringing up the OT discussion Bis; this is my last post on Japanese in this thread. スクール (sukuuru) is in my dictionary for such things as スクールバス (school bus) スクールメート (school mate) and スクールゾーン (school zone). i can read it without a problem. obviously he could use 学 for school, as seen in 学園 (campus) or 小学 (grade school)... but 古学 ("old" and "school") means "classical studies", not "old school" in the modern sense. :) as such オールド スクール looks fine to me.
Posted: 4/23/2004 12:03 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
I played level 2 some more and got my time down to 2:13 (from power on to triforce, including entering a name). I had a very good run earlier today, in which I was lucky enough to kill about four of the goriyas with one bomb, but then I messed up miserably and got killed by Dodongo :(.
Posted: 4/23/2004 2:35 AM
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TSA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 186
Good job Michael. Yeah, Dodongo can move in an unfavorable way sometimes. He usually goes left in the middle...just a tip. Old School's connotation should be like "Classical studies". Old School in the pop sense was what I was going for, which means "classic". So classic studies sounds cool, but if what you said is a better literal translation of "old school", that's cool.
Posted: 4/23/2004 2:46 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
I think it's time for me to move onto another level. I'll start practicing level 3. Since it's so frustrating having to start over so many times trying to get the blue octorok on the way to drop a bomb, instead of starting from power on I'll do it the same way as your level 1 challenge. First sword, 3 hearts, and 4 bombs, from entering the level to touching the triforce. Edit: I just attempted a level 3 speed run and I was almost at the end but the boss killed me :( I guess those bosses don't like me. I started timing when I got control of Link in the level, and the time was at approximately 2:02 when I died. I also think I need to work more on my darknut fighting skills. Edit 2: I forgot to mention this, but I got the raft in that run. Edit 3: I tried some more and managed to finish in 1:54.
Posted: 4/23/2004 3:36 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
TSA, now that we figured out the fastest route and Sleepz made a sub-27 video, are you ever going to let people see your 33 minute speed run, or do you still know some tricks that we haven't figured out yet that you want to keep a secret?
Posted: 4/23/2004 8:11 AM
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TSA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 186
Well, since I don't possess that video, it'd be hard. But I might at somepoint try out your run and see what it turns out and let you guys watch that. I seriously am not holding back anything. We're on the same page in info.
Posted: 4/23/2004 2:30 PM
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Phil
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
Well I see the Up+A in the original manual at page 15. http://www.mightymo.net/Manuals/NES/Legend%20of%20Zelda.zip
Posted: 4/23/2004 6:29 PM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
TSA, if you don't have the video, then who does? Does Twin Galaxies have it? If they do, then why hasn't it been announced yet on their forums.
Posted: 4/23/2004 7:54 PM
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TSA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 186
No, I said I don't have it anymore. As in it no longer exists. You see, I knew 33 mins was not good enough, so I kept attempting to break that. I actually knew I could get around 32 mins, maybe below. But as I was doing that, I got a challenge from another Zelda Player questioning my Ocarina of Time ability. I care more about OoT, so I decided to address his challenge and return to LoZ. I can assure you right now, TG guys have seen this thread and are working on a fast run for LoZ as we speak. So don't worry, a new legit low LoZ time will emerge from them, so you can see what your labors turn out in a non-emu run. Oh yeah, I don't get why Mr. Kelly was implying the Up+A trick is bad...as every TG run has used them. The ruling was it was allowed becuase it is mentioned in the manual. However, when I brought up that ALttP says you can save and quit in the manual, the rebuttal was the original submitter of the first run didn't use it, and thus it was against the rules. While at first I thought that was good logic, I now believe it's not so good. Just make them do another run, and if they don't want to, they dont' want it bad enough. Then again, I don't like the idea of "interruptions". My speed run of LoZ originally was like 40 mins, and it used no Up+A (for TG, I thought it was outlawed). Either way, my philosophy now is just let people see it all, and show off. That's why I use SDA. It's up to the fans and majority to decide what is "the record", not a minority group. TG may never recognize my newest runs as "records" cuz they're not on Tape, but anyone who knows anything about Zelda and gaming will. Sorry if in the past I was rude to the people in this thread (I think I already tried to make it clear I was awhile back). I'm cool with what you do, and I ammended my post on my forum as well as my site about fake runs (you should read it now). Just know, though, if anybody tries to claim a Famtasia run as WR, I will not stand for that. But I'll be supportive of whatever else you do. I'm not in this for fame, I just want to see what I can do. So whether or not anyone else "cares" to see my stuff, matters not. I just want to see what I can do for myself. Anyway - there is a whole 2nd Quest. If you'd like me to help with the route, I'd gladly do my part. But I would use my NES and Zelda Classic programs, not Famtasia.
Posted: 4/23/2004 9:17 PM
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Ramzi
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
It has 163 downloads. Makes me wonder who those 163 people are. I can't find this talked about anywhere. For some reason, I assumed Zelda sites and forums would love this video. I quickly typed up and submitted this story to Slashdot. Chances are it won't get accepted, although speed run stories have been posted before. If it does make it, expect your server to get Slashdotted.
Posted: 4/23/2004 9:21 PM
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Bob_Whoops
Former player
Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
I hope that you explained that it was done with rerecording, or all that the topic on slashdot is going to be about is "cheating" on games and whether it is okay.
Posted: 4/23/2004 9:41 PM
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Ramzi
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
I did. I mentioned the human record, I said "emulator" twice, and "rerecording" once.
Posted: 4/24/2004 11:07 AM
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josh_l.
Player (102)
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 189
Location: Austin
Just wanted to congratulate y'all for the video. =D Frankly, I'm blown away by the fact that the game can be done in under 30 minutes.
http://girlyyy.com/ The El Viento TAS is the only decent thing I submitted here.
Posted: 4/25/2004 1:28 AM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Anyway - there is a whole 2nd Quest. If you'd like me to help with the route, I'd gladly do my part. But I would use my NES and Zelda Classic programs, not Famtasia. I already started planning a route for the 2nd quest in this topic, so you can take a look at what I came up with so far. The 2nd quest seems to have a much simpler overworld than the 1st quest, so unless I'm missing something obvious, I think I already figured out the fastest route. According to the level order rules (based on the items), there are only 3 levels you can go to first, 1, 2, and 7, and it's best to just do 7 after 3 since it's so close. After 2, you need to go get the power bracelet that you need to enter level 4, and on the way it's best if you can make use of the 100 rupee cave. Since you would need the candle for that, I put level 1 first, hoping that it would be possible to get bombs and at least 10 rupees by the end of level 1, so that you can do the gambling game and buy the blue candle on the way to level 2. After picking up the power bracelet, it's best to go 1 screen to the right to get the arrows there, because if you get them 1 screen below level 2, you can't make use of the 100 rupee cave. Level 8 should be the last level before 9 because it's the shortest walk to 9 (even faster than Up+A, right 2 screens, and warping to near 6), so after level 4, you have the 3+7 group to do and also 6, and each can be gotten to faster by making use of the power bracelet warps. Then you can just whistle to 4, walk to 8 and then walk to 9. Oops, I just noticed that I left level 5 out of that route I typed up in the other topic so I'll fix that after I'm done typing this. You can walk to 5 from the start after doing Up+A after level 4. There seem to be much fewer choices of level order in the 2nd quest so I don't think there's too much room for improvement, but feel free to look this over and make any comments or suggestions. If no one can think of any ways to improve this route, then all that's left for me to do is to count up all the keys and locked doors, but I think someone should check to make sure I don't mess up this time so the same thing doesn't happen as in the 1st quest, where one of the keys I told Sleepz to get was after the locked door that he needed it for.
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