Even if the .m64 synched perfectly for me, I looked at the encode; it's perfect. Took me 5 minutes to download and you cut all the boring cutscenes.
Now, about the run.. that's the most impressive work I've seen on MM. I was seriously blown away! You got to Mikau so quick.. you did the wrong fairy fountain glitch so quick.. you beat Majora so quick..
It was great, keep it up, Grunz!
never really liked majora's mask?^^
who invented this? :P
it is true, that I had never beaten MM normally before I started glitch hunting, but I always watched my brother playing it as a child and I've been a huge zelda fan in general. nearly all games I play have something to do with zelda
MM became my favorite zelda, btw ;)
I think he meant himself, Grunz. ;)
Nahoc wrote:
you beat Majora so quick..
Did I miss something? XD
PS: can somebody tell the assholes in #zelda to unban me? :p
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
I haven't followed any of the glitch discoveries of this game, so watching that WIP was very, very impressive! I haven't wanted to see a TAS as much as I want to see this one for a long time, please keep up the good work! :)
I was very impressed with the level of precission present in the run, but I guess the really fun part has just started. ^^
The first cycle isn't really as action packed as the rest of the game, unfortunately.
Kuwaga: even then, there was impressively little downtime in the first cycle. I seem to recall a lot more hopping around the clock tower platform in the last MM TAS I saw...
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
I never knew exactly why you chose to redo everything but after seeing this it somehow makes sense, this is far beyond awesome at this point. Great work of course and impressive patience! keep it up.
Kuwaga: even then, there was impressively little downtime in the first cycle. I seem to recall a lot more hopping around the clock tower platform in the last MM TAS I saw...
Kneel before my route planing! XD
Actually petrie, swordless and I probably planned the first cycle in equal parts.
Mukki only got 99r from the chest in the Inn. Why? We really don't know. It seems obvious to get more rupees in the first cycle, where time doesn't count.
We actually figured out that the Inn chest was way too slow, since it added a lot of transition scenes, where time doesn't run. So we opted for two trips through termina field. This also has the positiv effect that we skip the north clock town introduction cutscene (during cutscenes time doesn't run either) since we enter it from termina field.
It was my idea to get 2r before clocktown to complete the 200r for the adault wallet. It only costs one second to get, but saves a buttload later since we save a lot of transition scenes.
Getting the adault wallet first cycle also enables us to just grab our 200r at the beginning of the second cycle from the banker, and never speak to him again.
It's also the only time in the TAS that we actually collect money. We will get a little more money later on, as a sideeffect of another trick, but this is the only time we actively collect it. And since in the first cycle time doesn't count, from beginning of the evening of the last day till midnight, we save a lot of time.
I hope everything was understandable. :)
Don't I remember something about skipping the clock tower scene by staying in Termina Field until midnight?
That doesn't work on the first cycle. In fact, if you're in termina field when the clock strikes 12, you're treated to an alternate version of the opening cutscene. This is, in fact, the only time you can see said scene.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sI5KefiovI
It seems obvious to get more rupees in the first cycle, where time doesn't count.
doesn't clock-time stop advancing during area transitions and dialogues and stuff?
I liked the WIP :)
The point is that you have to use up 12 hours one way or another. Certainly the fastest way to do that would be to just heal the Great Fairy and then wait at the clock entrance, since that minimizes time spent without the in-game clock advancing. However, then you're just wasting a bunch of time standing around in south Clock Town. By using the extra time to collect rupees and get the Adult Wallet, you get those items for "free" (actually, they only cost the time spent in transitions/dialogs that you wouldn't otherwise make, which is very little compared to the time it'd cost to get them in later cycles).
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
I was worried about this cutscene as well, but it sound like they already try everything... althought I'm quite sad that the entertainement isn't maxed while waiting for the bombshop keeper. I understand that this zone desync a lot, but this still isn't a good raeson for me.
Beside that, zora and the wrong warp glitch combo is definitly badass. I just can't believe it....
hmm, while waiting for the bomb shop keeper
you have to understand something first:
speed > entertainment
so the goal was to get the perfect angle and positioning before starting to talk to him. the roll gave me that angle and positioning
but you're right, I could have done something there, didn't thought about this ;)
but seriously, that is a 2 second section, so this shouldn't matter at all. will remember this for the second time we visit him
but there's one problem, though. someone, who doesn't know everything about MM and watching this, will think, that I wasted a lot of time. we had the same problem already at my old MM TAS. while waiting for the blue warp after odolwa to get activated, I did some weird playaround, which confused a lot of people, even a lot of experienced players ;)
while waiting for the blue warp after odolwa to get activated, I did some weird playaround, which confused a lot of people, even a lot of experienced players ;)
It's probably a good idea to show what you're waiting for. Like keeping the shopkeeper visible while doing stunts or (unsuccessfully) runing through the unactivated warp before showing off. Or, if you're waiting 10s for the warp, you could do some stunts for 9s, then stand in the warp idly for the last second, just to show "look, it doesn't activate yet". [1]
It's technically much more precise to reach the warp at the earliest possible frame where it activates - but that can be confusing for the viewer. Precision is worthless if it actually makes the run look sloppy.
Of course this only applies to longer waiting periods. Smaller ones, like the bomb shop, are a matter of opinion. I don't mind 1-2 second downtimes at all, there's little chance to blink otherwise [2]. I'd say: if you can do something fun without being confusing, go for it. Otherwise please remember that the thing that looked sooo cool in frame advance will be over quite a bit faster when watched at full-speed. Don't overdo it, sometimes it's better to be idle and give the viewer a chance to keep up.
But you'll be the judge of that, considering your previous work I'm sure you'll do awesome :)
[1] Disclaimer: I haven't watched the old TAS in a while and don't remember what you actually did
[2] if you ignore the cutscenes.
Oh, man.
Mr. Grunz: very nice work. I especially loved all of the little side-hopping moments. I think that your brain is nicely wired to TAS Zelda games. There are so many little details that demonstrate your love of, not only this game, but the process of of making the run. Really fun to watch for somebody with great memories of the N64 Zelda titles.
Still can't wait for the final run!
Don't I remember something about skipping the clock tower scene by staying in Termina Field until midnight?
That doesn't work on the first cycle. In fact, if you're in termina field when the clock strikes 12, you're treated to an alternate version of the opening cutscene. This is, in fact, the only time you can see said scene.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sI5KefiovI
And it should be noted that the scene in termina field is quite a bit longer than the one in Clocktown.
Tub wrote:
doesn't clock-time stop advancing during area transitions and dialogues and stuff?
Yeah but I'll give you some math:
- getting the 5r in the beginning of the game probably costs us 1 second. so -1
- We need to talk to the banker at least 4 times anyway. (3 times for paying 200+r for adault wallet and one time to extract 200r) So that's a tie.
- We need to get from ECT to NCT aynway and we have two choices. Either one transition scene and one long ass cutscene or two transition scenes. Naturally we choose the two transition scenes. So we are in termina field anyway and actually save time compared to Mukkis run, while collecting rupees. We save about 9 seconds by going through termina field and we save about 20 seconds for not getting the Inn chest (4 transition scenes and one chest opening scene). So we are at +28
- Now we do a extra trip through termina field, true. This costs us about 15 seconds in additional transition scenes (4). So we are at +13
- But now comes the real kicker. Mukki has to collect all that money for the adault wallet later on, when time counts. And that's about two times 55 seconds. So our plus goes up to 123 seconds or 2 minutes and 3 seconds.
So our way of getting rupees is over 2 minutes faster. ;) And we do something interesting with the first cycle. ;)
DaTeL237 wrote:
petrie911 wrote:
In fact, if you're in termina field when the clock strikes 12, you're treated to an alternate version of the opening cutscene.
Well perhaps with TAS precision it would be possible to cancel that cutscene by triggering the zone-transition on the correct frame? :)
Nope. It has all been tried. You can actually skip over twleve o'clock by moving in transition scenes or rapidly pausing, but the cutscene just starts right after you stop doing that, even if you advance time by like an hour, which would take you forever.
BadPotato wrote:
althought I'm quite sad that the entertainement isn't maxed while waiting for the bombshop keeper. I understand that this zone desync a lot, but this still isn't a good raeson for me.
I'm actually quite glad that he didn't do some crap there. Now I'm all for tricks to gap long waits, but here it's so short, that I like the little downtime to catch my breath.
Tub wrote:
or (unsuccessfully) runing through the unactivated warp before showing off.
He actually did that. It still confused the hell out of people. XD
