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Posted: 6/8/2010 12:41 AM
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Antoids
Joined: 8/27/2009
Posts: 159
Location: California
I actually didn't know what the spell did. I'm surprised it targets him that whole time. That's cool. I've only played a small amount of SOTN, but enough so that the rest of your explanation makes sense.
Posted: 6/10/2010 1:37 PM
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arukAdo
Experienced player (961)
Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 940
Location: Castle Keep
PSX TAS of 2011 PSX TAS of 2010 Rookie of 2009 New systems TASer of 2009 New systems TAS of 2009
Theres a small manipulation for getting him to die, basicly on triggering the last laser, it was tight, a few more frames and dracula would flyes out. The spell is not suppose to behave like this, laser is suppose to exit the screen after having made some curves, using the spells several times not only stack up more laser, but also make it "permanent" on screen. For the 100% run, i think for exemple getting all relics (/all bosses) but not getting the best ending would be bad choice. Setting up the goals is not an easy task for the 100% run. As for glitching, well, theres many little things that are hard to tell if its glitchs or not, for exemple, using wolf dive kick to access earlier olrox/colosseum or wolf charge to access keep earlier, while those have of course vaste impact on route/lenght of a run. Theres a time attack option in the menu, displaying 23 events in game, like saving richter or beating bosses, but like anything in this game its also flawed, for exemple saving richter event can be glitched throught, or beating lvl24 doppleganger will also register the lvl10 one along ect... Personnally a totaly glitchless run would bores me a bit i think. The main difference would be that glitchless is way slower overall, alucard will still be overpowered, the game is extremly unbalanced, any good drop make you extremly strong. Fighting bare hand still allow for critical hits ect... nothing impressive imo The no item deal is same problem, we use items in the any% only to increase our speed, as in, if its about to fight your way trought the game, no items is realy needed, but i fail to see how it can be impressive at all, unassisted its doable, the game is too easy. Oh and for spells, wing smash and wolf charge are counted as spells yeah, well, they are on the spell screen in menu. Preventing wing smash ect... just make things goes slower basicly, since those are the fastest movements available. The only relic you cant skip whatsoever is the wolf, without it theres no way to complete the game, if say, you limit yourself to 1 relic only.
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Posted: 6/10/2010 3:45 PM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
A lot of that is personal taste -- you find glitchless boring, but I'd bet plenty of other people would enjoy such a run. But I get that means they'll have to find someone else to make it. :) I've never liked SotN's requirements for getting the best ending. Map coverage is such a silly concept. As for what is/isn't a glitch, personally I think that using wolf morph to get the dive kick is a glitch, but I know a lot of people disagree with that. I suspect it's a bit of a moot point anyway if you're going for best ending, since you'll have to traverse the chapel regardless. Again, map coverage. A naked Luck Mode run would be pretty challenging, wouldn't it? Even if you manipulate critical hits the bosses still won't take much damage (at least early on; after manipulating a few levelups your power will start increasing). I know in normal gameplay, Luck Mode with restricted equipment is way harder than normal mode, mostly because the monsters actually do decent damage to you. If you don't use wolf rise, are there any other unskippable relics?
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Posted: 6/10/2010 4:20 PM
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arukAdo
Experienced player (961)
Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 940
Location: Castle Keep
PSX TAS of 2011 PSX TAS of 2010 Rookie of 2009 New systems TASer of 2009 New systems TAS of 2009
Its not moot because going faster to chapel or keep gets you sooner the leap stone, thus shortcuting most of the castle, your right you still need to cover the map, yet, going the "normal" way (buying at library the relic and opening blue doors) is taking way longer. Naked challenge (luck mode or not) is doable unassisted, many ppl did it. The luck mode is only difficult is you stay low, but anything you beat up while been low will forcably get you lvl ups, so theres no real way around it. The exp gain system is made up to overpower you very quick. In a tas anyway unless you seek speed boost, nothing will ever hit you at all. No boss are challenging, especially with frame precision, and will end up dieing very fast, naked or not, they basicly have all very low hp except in reverse castle. I think challenge and speedrunning are not compatible for this game, i wish it was tho, but glitching is so extended and let you do so many things out of order that you could come up with any goals and still works. If not using glitchs, i think the minimun is to have 3 relics + dracula ones, either leap stone or wolf(dive kick), mist, then bat or extended mist (with a tonnes of mp). Edit: some exemple of arbitrary goals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18voV5lC6pI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvRUF_fxieQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wFxLa9ivfk While its not actually what you asked for, and severly use glitching, you can at least observ the game is uterly easy and theres nothing much "hard", all ennemys can be dodged or discarded. If i came up with suchs goals its basicly because the overall difficulty is too low and not realy fun, while trying to go against the wind might proove to be more successfull in term of entertainment. Heck see how poor dracula can get owned by richter :p I know some ppl would like to see a no glitch run, im not saying i dont "want" to do one, but im saying at least its not easy to make clear goals without the movie been extremly repeatitive or boring, now of course everybody have his mind on the matter, but well. I know for sure theres not a single room in the game that is glitchless, its very hard not taking this in consideration.
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Posted: 7/11/2010 2:46 PM
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arukAdo
Experienced player (961)
Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 940
Location: Castle Keep
PSX TAS of 2011 PSX TAS of 2010 Rookie of 2009 New systems TASer of 2009 New systems TAS of 2009
So ive decided to make a 100% run. The hard part was to setup goals, ill probably explain more in detail how i choosed them whenever i submit this. For short im going for good ending (1800+ rooms) and all relics (28), with as much glitching i can kick in. This wont be perfect on the first version, no doubt about it, theres just too many parameters and possibilities to pretend having planned everything and executed it flawless. Im trying to build the run with a empiric point of view, my main goal is to reduce exploration a maximum. Like in all games, generaly collecting everything is meaning to backtrack, at least usually the intended routes are. So, my main point is to use save corruption, in order to take advantage as much as possible of backtracking, for short, whenever i explore a room that i already explored, i get twice credits for it. Corruption can yeld vastly different effects, pirate was able to get some 9500MP with it, or get 1hp, those kind of stuffs could easly lead to very glitched runs, yet we dont have enought knowledge on the matter right now to use it seriously. My run even if trying to be as cheap as possible on rooms exploration, at least explore them, and get relics, if someday we could just corrupt and get all that in a matter of seconds, i think it would be a different category. Anyway, you can watch a 16min wip here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17mlU7fZm6U (sound is not synced, sadly) http://www.mediafire.com/?aeliha1mznz (mp4, good sound) The run stop after i corrupted the save (reset the map), from that point, every room i already explored will register twice. Comments are welcome, ill try to answers question if theres any. thx to Grunt for the encode!
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Posted: 7/11/2010 5:49 PM
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Satoryu
Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 272
I liked what I saw at first, I love the amount of bigtosses. But getting glitched percent doesn't set right with me. I'd prefer to see without white rooms.
Posted: 7/11/2010 6:10 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Personally, I stopped any attempts to understand this game. I think Alucard is actually reading my thoughts every time I hear his "WHAT?" from my headphones. Grunt's encode also has fun sound glitches here and there that add to my confusion. Anyway, I'd like to see more of it. :)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 7/11/2010 9:38 PM
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Acheron86
Joined: 8/23/2008
Posts: 417
That's amazing. This game (and you) continue to deliver. Interested to see where you go next. All relics means you still have to visit the lower portions of the castle. Inverted castle will get less exploration but that's no big loss.
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Posted: 7/11/2010 11:27 PM
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arukAdo
Experienced player (961)
Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 940
Location: Castle Keep
PSX TAS of 2011 PSX TAS of 2010 Rookie of 2009 New systems TASer of 2009 New systems TAS of 2009
The point of taking white rooms is to shorten the exploration, its not glitching just for the sake of it, if i would to take "only" blue rooms, and not abusing the counter, there it would be realy long i think, im aiming at sub hour (no way to achieve that just with blue rooms). Getting all relics along good ending definitly "force" me to explore the lower section of the castle, alltho im not realy decided yet if ill go in the catacombs for the regular castle, i might just skip it directly, basicly it depend how many rooms i have when i get there. In inverted castle, poison mist force me to get to catacombs tho. The next step is chapel, no relics, but a bunch of rooms to farm out, from there ill have to choose either go back to library (maria dialogue would freeze game if i were to go labs from chapel) or head to keep (defeating chapel boss), then entrance and underground caverns. Im planning to enter caverns from entrance, that will let me get the merman statue before accessing the right side lake, so in one go i will cover the whole place, i also plan to bypass the bridge and skip cerberus with style (grate trick).
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Posted: 7/12/2010 4:07 AM
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scrimpeh
Editor, Skilled player (1441)
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 2113
TAS of 2017 First edition TAS of 2017 PSX TAS of 2017
Quite a mindblowing run, to say the least.
Posted: 7/19/2010 8:31 PM
Post subject: new wip encode!
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arukAdo
Experienced player (961)
Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 940
Location: Castle Keep
PSX TAS of 2011 PSX TAS of 2010 Rookie of 2009 New systems TASer of 2009 New systems TAS of 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjDLvZf_nsE http://www.mediafire.com/?px24mhxbx34c8np 33:46 and about 95% (map completion), still in first castle and miss the echo of bat (olrox). I plan on using another good trick along save glitch in keep to get some more extra rooms, then should head for inverted castle. Right now it seem hard to say i will achieve my sub hour goal, but im not going to get far from that, its not easy to estimate it, but for a fact in about half this movie i dont have the bat, pretty limited movement, i assume that i get an average 50% per 15min.
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Posted: 7/19/2010 9:30 PM
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scrimpeh
Editor, Skilled player (1441)
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 2113
TAS of 2017 First edition TAS of 2017 PSX TAS of 2017
Wow. Only rarely have I seen a game being broken this badly. Wonderfully entertaining run so far. Sometimes though you go through the same corridors multiple times without any apparent reason. Why so?
Posted: 7/19/2010 10:44 PM
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Satoryu
Joined: 7/1/2008
Posts: 272
I'm guessing that Sword Brothers save glitch scatters whatever map you've gotten into bogus spots. That means you'd have to re-get those rooms back. I'm not well versed in this stuff at all, so feel free to correct me. This is a treat to watch. All the glitches and luck manipulation involved are a technical marvel. It's really bizarre, but it is unfortunate this means you have to go to unimportant rooms twice or more. I'm kinda torn, actually. I don't know if it's less entertaining to see Alucard go to a whole slew of unnecessary rooms or just revisit a fraction of them. It seems like a "damned if you do damned if you don't" situation. I hope when this is completed, and assuming it's submitted here, it's not rejected like the CotM full map run.
Posted: 7/19/2010 11:51 PM
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Marcokarty
Active player (417)
Joined: 8/22/2008
Posts: 301
Location: Brazil
SNES TAS of 2010 Funny TAS of 2010
WTF! You broke the game so many times with all of these great glitches. So beautiful TAS, amazing stuff for TASVideos.
Posted: 7/20/2010 1:49 AM
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arukAdo
Experienced player (961)
Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 940
Location: Castle Keep
PSX TAS of 2011 PSX TAS of 2010 Rookie of 2009 New systems TASer of 2009 New systems TAS of 2009
scrimpeh/Satoryu : what happen is im farming rooms, even tho im going twice or three time in the same rooms, since the save glitch does reset the map (but not the room count...) i get credited for rooms. Ill exit the first castle with approximativly 110%. To obtain the good ending you need 196% map completion, i dont have maps to show you guys yet, but in the submission im planning to take a screenshoot of the map every time i use the save glitch, this will let you guys understand what is overlapping and how much it was rewarding to do so. Of course now, if it was possible to glitch out the room count directly, yes, all those would be moot moot, as i speak i never saw that effect taking place so well, i have to walk, and i try to do that with as much style (and glitchs) as possible. Ah and yeah good point for COTM, this run was planned with the COTM exemple in mind, and for my defense, unlike COTM, there is a purpose (good ending), its not just exploration for the sake of it. Also note that getting all relics will forcably get you a big chunk of the map, regardless you have the good ending goal along or not.
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Posted: 8/7/2010 1:41 PM
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DJSlambdaN
Joined: 10/14/2008
Posts: 44
Location: Sweden
Where can I find a save file for SOTN that have "Clear"? I would like to try some TASing on it but I need a replay save file so i can skip cinematics :P
Posted: 8/7/2010 1:48 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Play back a published TAS, save game.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 8/7/2010 1:50 PM
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DJSlambdaN
Joined: 10/14/2008
Posts: 44
Location: Sweden
So before its Shaft battle, I just stop the playback and go back to the closest save point? I dont need to beat shaft/dracula?
Posted: 8/7/2010 1:57 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
How can it be a clear if you don't beat the game?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 8/7/2010 2:26 PM
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arukAdo
Experienced player (961)
Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 940
Location: Castle Keep
PSX TAS of 2011 PSX TAS of 2010 Rookie of 2009 New systems TASer of 2009 New systems TAS of 2009
If you want to get the clear memcard, there is easier method, just start to play the 100% or richter movie (they contain it already), then in the menu go for memcard, you can export/save it there (the format is also compatible with most other psx emus)
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Posted: 8/7/2010 7:44 PM
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DJSlambdaN
Joined: 10/14/2008
Posts: 44
Location: Sweden
had no luck running pcsx smoothly on my laptop with 800mhz, 120mb ram, 8mb integrated graphics, I think ill wait til i get my psu for my real pc... anyway, should i dash every-other frame, like frame1 = dash, frame2 = idle, frame3 = dash, frame4, idle and so on? Is that the fastest way? q2 : how does ziggys name entry work? in what order do i press the letters (X-X!V''Q) ? q3 : how does the like, wing smash with the bat work? never got it to work... q4 : any thing else i should think off while tasing SOTN? will most likely do a worst-ending first to get a hang of it, not gonna submit it or anything, just gonnna tas for fun :P arukado btw, awesome all relics run :)
Posted: 8/7/2010 7:53 PM
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arukAdo
Experienced player (961)
Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 940
Location: Castle Keep
PSX TAS of 2011 PSX TAS of 2010 Rookie of 2009 New systems TASer of 2009 New systems TAS of 2009
backdash, shield - repeat. youll have to watch the movie and the ~ 20 frames input, its weird how to entry the name (quickly), i recommand to use taseditor to view things like that, its on pcsx-rr download list. x(hold), up, backward-up, backward, backward-down, down, forward down, forward, x (release) to extend duration simply reinput the motion (before you get back to alucard, obviously). hard to answer when theres no real question :p some lua script that display some ram watch : http://code.google.com/p/arukado-tas/source/browse/trunk/Projects/PSX/SOTN/SOTN.lua also, very good faq here : http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/196885-castlevania-symphony-of-the-night/faqs/3789
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Posted: 8/8/2010 12:43 AM
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Sir_VG
He/Him
Player (40)
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1914
Location: Floating Tower
moozooh wrote:
How can it be a clear if you don't beat the game?
If you don't save, it doesn't matter if you beat the game. Saving just creates the base file the game needs to append the CLEAR conditions to it when you do beat it. ActRaiser is the same way. If you play the game with a blank SRAM file, then beat it, Professional! Mode won't be unlocked.
Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing
Posted: 8/8/2010 6:03 AM
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Hoe
Joined: 7/31/2004
Posts: 183
Location: USA
As a viewer something I'd love to see a down to the tooth galamoth fight. Something like a worse armor/worse weapon run. Not sure how much of the rest of the video I'd want to watch but that part would be fantastic :)
Posted: 8/8/2010 6:34 AM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Mmm...thing about Galamoth is, you can stunlock him with your fists without too much trouble if you have Wing Smash (fly through him, land on the ledge behind him, punch him in the back of the neck). I wouldn't be surprised if a TAS could accomplish this even without Wing Smash. Even if you miss the timing, you can stunlock him with a knife barrage, though you need a lot of hearts for that to be enough to kill him. Presumably subweapons would be disallowed in such a fight. But then you run into the large number of attacks he uses during which you can't effectively attack him. His targeted orbs and lightning storm in particular could slow the fight down a lot unless you suggest using the Beryl Circlet, in which case...well, his dangerous attacks are completely neutered. I could well be wrong, but I'm not certain there's a way to make the Galamoth fight both interesting and TAS-worthy. If he were to be fought in a TAS, I'd favor the punching stunlock, just because it's pretty silly-looking.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
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