You've cheated death. Again.
Beware though, the guy usually gets a little cranky after you've done that a couple of times. Next time you meet him, he'll offer you a crooked game of chess instead. Be prepared!
Progress!
Originally I wanted to WIP just before Legion, but I completely brickwalled on the Gargoyle (been trying for about 6 hours and I've yet to find the soul). I really want to get it in this shaft. I do encounter more Gargoyles ahead, but I don't want to redo massive chunks of my run due to bad luck.
Pie
I skipped 2 pause screens in the Clocktower by using the Imp to damage the Valkyrie (changing to Minotaur was used in the old run to oneshot it). Slightly different approach on the Man-Eater, I end up on the right side of him, and I manage to have 1 of the eyes take 3 hits from Lightning Doll, something I have never managed to do before (the Man-Eater triggers some extremely weird cooldowns, the 11 frame Mystelain can go from everything from 11 to 16 frames, don't ask me why).
The Mandragora encounter is about a million times better.
I also kill the Arc Demon on the way to the Warp Room, instead of when going to the Skyfish corridor, since I'm waiting for the elevators anyways. Also skipping the pausescreen to switch to Triton before Legion - it's not worth it.
1938 frames ahead of my first run.
I skipped 2 pause screens in the Clocktower by using the Imp to damage the Valkyrie (changing to Minotaur was used in the old run to oneshot it). Slightly different approach on the Man-Eater, I end up on the right side of him, and I manage to have 1 of the eyes take 3 hits from Lightning Doll, something I have never managed to do before (the Man-Eater triggers some extremely weird cooldowns, the 11 frame Mystelain can go from everything from 11 to 16 frames, don't ask me why).
That's the bug I kept talking about. Great that you recorded it!
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days
<adelikat> no doubt
<adelikat> klmz, they still do
That's the bug I kept talking about. Great that you recorded it!
Man-Eater and Death's first phase seem to be unique in that aspect. I have yet to find another enemy with garbled cooldowns. Though I thought you mentioned that you reduced the cooldown, not made it longer.
Anyways, I just finished Legion, and I have to redo the entire fight. T_T.
It turns out I improved the fight so much, that I have to do the entire fight on the right side, instead of the left, since I'm too far away from the door when it is opening after the fight.
Pie
Managed to do a glitched level-up/soul-screen on the Flame Demon, saving a buttload of frames. The Legion fight was improved by about 240 frames, putting me 2201 frames ahead of myself (was actually expecting no improvements on Legion...)
I'm willing to bet that you'll end up comfortably below 27 minutes at the pace you're going. The improvements have so far been genuinely surprising, and it's nice to see rare stuff like a combined level-up/soul collect screen. Excellent job!
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
You used Medusa Head in the Legion fight last time; how much harder was the Legion fight without the manoeuvrability it provided? Was using Great Armor instead the big win which improved the fight so much or were there other aspects too?
I'm willing to bet that you'll end up comfortably below 27 minutes at the pace you're going. The improvements have so far been genuinely surprising, and it's nice to see rare stuff like a combined level-up/soul collect screen. Excellent job!
That is indeed the goal. I'm hoping to get atleast a time of 25:xx if not even 24:xx. While the 24 minute goal sounds somewhat farfetched, I expected very little improvements this far into the run. There are still heaps of small improvements everywhere, so I'm really looking forward to seeing how much time I can save just due to better familiarity with the game.
rhebus wrote:
You used Medusa Head in the Legion fight last time; how much harder was the Legion fight without the manoeuvrability it provided? Was using Great Armor instead the big win which improved the fight so much or were there other aspects too?
Actually, there are next to no differences between using Medusa Head and not using it. Medusa Head does not allow you to land any extra hits; the swingtimer in the air remains the same (22 frames, I believe), so at best you might save a single frame due to not having to use double-jump. Great Armor on the other hand saves a weapon swing on all shell parts.
While Great Armor costs alot of mana, it can be used on the Valkyrie hits to add roughly 20 damage to the shell. With 3 Valkyrie's per manapool, an additional 5 mana to spare, and some regeneration at that, using Great Armor on the Valkyrie hits actually works out quite nicely.
Anyways, I'm still working on Legion, and I'm struggling with randomness. You really don't want unfortunate corpses spawning, so that you lose time while hitting Legion. Also, I'm pretty sure RNG decides if Legion starts crawling up one of the walls during a turn (might also be position related, or maybe even both). This is what I'm having trouble with at the moment, in my first attempt I got a perfect turn. In this attempt, he keeps heading up the wall.
EDIT: Just finished Legion, saved 7 frames over my first attempt, putting me 2228 frames ahead of my first run. The fight is pretty much the same, except I save frames at the door, so I'm not gonna WIP just yet.
Que?
Apparently, if you collect a soul during the red door, you are allowed 1 frame of free movement. While somewhat useless, I will use it to jump, which allows me to enter kickspeed 2 frames earlier.
Since the Lubicants are making me somewhat worried (the Soul is nearly 100 random numbers away, and I've yet to even find the sword), I'm just gonna go ahead and WIP.
Pie
2676 frames ahead of myself.
Question: does it make sense to jump so high at 45230? You're moving against the wall for quite some time.
Actually yes. The door is still not quite open (even though it looks that way), so I'm given some extra time to get higher up. The higher up I am, the longer I'm going to spend in the kick. After landing, Soma retains the speed from the kick, but it will slowly dissipate, so logic dictates, that if given the time, kicks should be started from highest possible position. I have applied this in all possible places in the run, especially when waiting for souls (Clocktower).
Just before Man-Eater, is it worth taking a hit from a Needles to fall faster? Like this. It looks like 82 damage or so, and I'm not sure how much time it saves.
Just before Man-Eater, is it worth taking a hit from a Needles to fall faster? Like this. It looks like 82 damage or so, and I'm not sure how much time it saves.
I actually already knew of the possibility of this trick, but the damage the Needles do + 2 hits from Legion would put me on -14 hp, which obviously is unfavourable. Unless it saves 100+ frames (time it takes to kill a Bomber Armor, and time it takes to switch to Steel Plate), I doubt there is any possibility to see it implemented, unfortunately.
Anyways, since I like to keep most of the later parts of the game secret until submission, when should I stop WIPing? Balore has been my favorite place to stop WIPing, but iirc I WIPed up until Graham in my any%. I'm still gonna post progress and improvements, however.
Just before Man-Eater, is it worth taking a hit from a Needles to fall faster? Like this. It looks like 82 damage or so, and I'm not sure how much time it saves.
I actually already knew of the possibility of this trick, but the damage the Needles do + 2 hits from Legion would put me on -14 hp, which obviously is unfavourable. Unless it saves 100+ frames (time it takes to kill a Bomber Armor, and time it takes to switch to Steel Plate), I doubt there is any possibility to see it implemented, unfortunately.
Or you could eat the potion or tasty meat you're carrying? You still have both at the end of the Legion fight.
Or you could eat the potion or tasty meat you're carrying? You still have both at the end of the Legion fight.
Curse you! I was expecting some minor framegain, but it turns out it was nearly 100 frames faster (I also noticed a minor mistake later on in the same room). So I'm gonna redo from there, which will take about 2-3 days of solid work. Really, the only hard place to manipulate are the Medusa Heads before the teleport room.
Anyways, I'm forced to put the run on temporary hiatus since I got stuff to do in real life, which leaves me in no mood for TASing. I'm going to try to find as much time as possible to TAS and I will most likely finish before 2011; submitting on Christmas would be fun, but only if the run is finished close to that date.
Or you could eat the potion or tasty meat you're carrying? You still have both at the end of the Legion fight.
Curse you! I was expecting some minor framegain, but it turns out it was nearly 100 frames faster (I also noticed a minor mistake later on in the same room). So I'm gonna redo from there, which will take about 2-3 days of solid work.
I'm sorry! I didn't mean it! I won't do it again!
Seriously, I really wish I'd noticed this earlier.
Anyways, I'm forced to put the run on temporary hiatus since I got stuff to do in real life, which leaves me in no mood for TASing. I'm going to try to find as much time as possible to TAS and I will most likely finish before 2011; submitting on Christmas would be fun, but only if the run is finished close to that date.
I have actually been working a few hours today, so I thought I'd just show my progress, even though there are next to no differences.
Pie
The hiatus is not over, I expect atleast another week of no work at all. But I'll still try my best to maybe work some more this weekend.
111 frames ahead of my earlier WIP.
In theory you should be able to save 3 frames by consuming the potion when you equip mystletain. Because your cursor is already at the equip menu, it's one less step downwards to get to item use. I tried hexing it in, and it keeps sync after the modified mystletain pause menu, but desyncs after the pause menu in the man-eater room. I have no idea why :(
Scotch Pie
EDIT: looking at the RNG value at 0x2000008, the first discrepancy seems to happen at frame 36699 (corresponding to 36702 in the original), and by frame 36708 the two have diverged completely. This is during the man-eater fight, well beyond the pause screen i hexed. I'm not a TASer by any means and I've never done hexing before, but this is really confusing. Surely if it was going to break, it would have broken before this point?
(Also, by consuming the potion earlier, you hit your HP cap and only gain 84 HP instead of the full 100 HP. I assume this isn't a big deal.)
I'm not making any friends here am I?
In theory you should be able to save 3 frames by consuming the potion when you equip mystletain. Because your cursor is already at the equip menu, it's one less step downwards to get to item use. I tried hexing it in, and it keeps sync after the modified mystletain pause menu, but desyncs after the pause menu in the man-eater room. I have no idea why :(
Lag (there is quite alot of lag during the first 2 eyes) + the weird cooldowns I talked about earlier. I have to mention that the cooldowns I mentioned earlier were a bit off, the cooldowns can range from 16 to 24 frames. Getting the soul optimally is nigh impossible :'< (RNG changes the pattern of the Man-Eater, which changes the loottables, and at the same time it changes the cooldown constantly :D)
rhebus wrote:
EDIT: looking at the RNG value at 0x2000008, the first discrepancy seems to happen at frame 36699 (corresponding to 36702 in the original), and by frame 36708 the two have diverged completely. This is during the man-eater fight, well beyond the pause screen i hexed. I'm not a TASer by any means and I've never done hexing before, but this is really confusing. Surely if it was going to break, it would have broken before this point?
Pause-screens have a bad habit of causing a lot of randomness in lag. Since Man-Eater is a lagfest, there are some lagframes garbled up, which makes it behave slightly differently.
rhebus wrote:
(Also, by consuming the potion earlier, you hit your HP cap and only gain 84 HP instead of the full 100 HP. I assume this isn't a big deal.)
This changes nothing, I would still have about 70 hp after Legion, which means I still have to consume the Rotten Meat.
I'm gonna check this one out when I have the time, Man-Eater should end up identical and the rest should be hex-editable. If not, I could always hope for a slightly better Mandragora. God I loath that room, getting the Mandragora soul is so damn hard; while the Slime soul travels, the Mandragora changes RNG 5 times/frame (1 for slime soul, 1 for death animation, 1 for mandragora, 1 for Imp and 1 for the second slime). Good luck finding the right random number.
rhebus wrote:
I'm not making any friends here, am I?
No worries. I've worked with Taco. He's a bastard when it comes finding improvements. Not even funny.
But hey. If I don't finish this year atleast I have someone to blame :D.
(Also, by consuming the potion earlier, you hit your HP cap and only gain 84 HP instead of the full 100 HP. I assume this isn't a big deal.)
This changes nothing, I would still have about 70 hp after Legion, which means I still have to consume the Rotten Meat.
what if you eat the potion when you equip the combat knife? You gain 24 HP, which means you should finish legion on 10 HP (though I'm not 100% sure about this). Is that low enough to avoid needing rotten meat? (is it possible/necessary to avoid the +5HP from succubus?).
But hey. If I don't finish this year atleast I have someone to blame :D.
