Sorry for taking so long, we feel bad about it. I'd like to let you know that our re-record count is now roughly at 380,000 for the whole project. Things are going very good, so your patience will pay off soon. Hold in there! ^_^
I have a question, I've watched a tutorial on TASing by M64M I think it was, and he TAS'd with the mouse… is that normal for Mupen? do you all TAS with your mouse? or is it just something for 3D movement games so you can TAS the movement with the analogue stick better?
lately I've been watching a lot of SM64 TASes, I love the work you guys do
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
Yes, we use the TAS Input Plugin. It's far more accurate than using a keyboard/controller. Myself and other SM64/N64 TASers that I know of have been hoping similar plugins will be developed for other emulators too, like PCSX and Dolphin.
I like this!
So, even if stars aren't going to be hexed in for the 120-stars run, are you going to take inspiration from those routes? Are the Japanese people willing to share m64 files with you? Sorry if the question seems dumb, but every little bit counts. Even if the 120-stars run is going to have 50 people in the Authors field.
It's not a dumb question. Japanese players and everyone else are somewhat acquainted and friends. I have a freerun on my channel with like, 5 other Japanese players. For example, it wouldn't be hard for me to get that .m64. And all Japanese players are very nice. Infact, the Japanese players are working on a 120 star at the moment, although I personally feel it is quite redundant, as I'm sure they agree. They already have had to redo a WIP that had about 11~? stars. I can't quite remember. Anyway, I hope this helped you learn more about the Japanese scene.
Thanks for the kind and quick reply.
Yeah it does sound redundant to have two different 120-stars runs, but it's all good. We can never know if someone is going to come up with a new route, and playing the stars over and over again might help.
Thanks for the kind and quick reply.
Yeah it does sound redundant to have two different 120-stars runs, but it's all good. We can never know if someone is going to come up with a new route, and playing the stars over and over again might help.
Not just that, but SM64 is still developing for single stars. Just a couple days ago, a whole new strat was found for the "Shoot to the wild blue" star from Whomp's Fortress utilizing a creative side BLJ. If they for example had to redo that and they were a couple courses ahead, hexing would be near-impossible because it would mess up the 100 coin stars.
When you kill an enemy, the direction, speed etc. is random, thus making hexing quite impossible. So basically what I'm saying is, delaying the 120 star, and just developing tons of new strategies is the way to go. When the discovering phase dies down, that's the time to go. Also, there will be Japanese and everyone else co-operation I'm sure when the time comes. They are already interested.
Here is the WF star. This was found by a Japanese TASer. Maybe Snark (surprise? XD), I can't remember.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaTtHX3__9k
Blazesoul13 and myself have saved around a second or more over this I think.
Edit: And I read the comments, and a respectable Japanese player wrote:
Nothing693
17 hours ago
i recorded 8"43. mamunine recorded 8"23
Thanks for the kind and quick reply.
Yeah it does sound redundant to have two different 120-stars runs, but it's all good. We can never know if someone is going to come up with a new route, and playing the stars over and over again might help.
Not just that, but SM64 is still developing for single stars.
Will SM64 ever stop developing for single stars? Do we have to wait for that to see a new 120-star run?
I'm aware of the rule that a submitted run must have no known improvements at time of submission, but this rule, combined with the time it takes to make a long run, combined with even a slow trickle of new improvements found, necessarily implies that we won't see a 120-star run for a very long time. That makes me sad.
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
When Mr_Roberts_Z made his WIP, I believe it was 3/4 of a year for 33 stars (correct me if I'm wrong).
Within the last 2 weeks, I can think of 4 stars that got completely overhauled with new routes, 3 of them being fairly early in the game. At this rate, you are right, there won't be a optimal/near optimal run for a very, VERY long time.
I'm aware of the rule that a submitted run must have no known improvements at time of submission
No such rule exists. If it did, a large number of the runs on this site would not have been published. Submission texts often include a section for improvements (known or possible). TASing is an iterative process, it is understood that a run can probably be improved. Throughout any one TAS a runner will typically learn new tricks and become better acquainted with the game engine. This is why runners so often obsolete their own submissions.
I'm not necessarily saying that someone should work on a 120 star TAS, in light of the rate of discovery. However, I don't think the rate of discovery should preclude someone from making said TAS. A solid effort, with the currently known strats, would easily obsolete the current 120 star TAS and be entertaining and it would be faster than a real time speedrunner could achieve.
Oh sure, a good 120 star TAS could be made, but if we wait even longer, a godly 120 star TAS could be made, involving everyone in the SM64 community. I mean, think how many TASers are TASing SM64 these days.
Anyone has the ability to find a new route or improve an existing star. This is why co-operation, organization and extensive, slow TASing is necessary for this 120 star in my opinion. That is, if you want the godly version.
Anyone can make a good 120 star TAS, because it's just so god dang entertaining, but in my opinion, it'd be so much cooler to have everyone from everywhere come together to make a godly 120 star. Except Brian. Lol just kidding.
Oh sure, a good 120 star TAS could be made, but if we wait even longer, a godly 120 star TAS could be made, involving everyone in the SM64 community. I mean, think how many TASers are TASing SM64 these days.
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Anyone can make a good 120 star TAS, because it's just so god dang entertaining, but in my opinion, it'd be so much cooler to have everyone from everywhere come together to make a godly 120 star. Except Brian. Lol just kidding.
I would have to agree waiting for a godly 120 TAS would be worth especially since we will be watching all of the improvements being made to all of the individual levels until the time when the project is started. However there could be some things done or at least could use the competition that the single stars are getting like (assuming the route is finalized?) all of the castle movement because most of that can be hex'd in right? except for maybe MIPS and his locations and the pillar room can't be hex'd in. I know at least I, and I am sure others, would like to see some cool runs between paintings, star doors and the other places you have to go in the castle.
I'm aware of the rule that a submitted run must have no known improvements at time of submission
No such rule exists. If it did, a large number of the runs on this site would not have been published. Submission texts often include a section for improvements (known or possible).
Huh, it seems you're right; the rule doesn't say "no known improvements" but rather "breaks all existing records".
One interpretation of that rule, however, is that a 120-star run must beat all applicable single-star records. That would kill the chances of any intermediate 120-star publish until new discoveries slow to a trickle. (Should I seek a clarification on that interpretation?)
TASing is an iterative process, it is understood that a run can probably be improved. Throughout any one TAS a runner will typically learn new tricks and become better acquainted with the game engine. This is why runners so often obsolete their own submissions.
I'm not necessarily saying that someone should work on a 120 star TAS, in light of the rate of discovery. However, I don't think the rate of discovery should preclude someone from making said TAS. A solid effort, with the currently known strats, would easily obsolete the current 120 star TAS and be entertaining and it would be faster than a real time speedrunner could achieve.
I fully agree with this view, and further, I think that ideally it's better to have a relatively large number of incremental submissions than one big improvement every 2-3 years. (Of course, the game length and ease of hexing will affect how feasible this is; I'm not a TASer so I don't know how much effort is necessarily involved.)
The "breaks existing records" rule is for non-assisted play. If your run isn't faster than someone sitting in front of a TV without access to slowdown and rerecords, then it's not going to be accepted (unless it's a playaround, in which case we'll bicker about it for weeks before coming to a decision).
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
You guys really need to stop relying on hexing with this game. You don't seem to understand the luck manipulation factors. For example, the only 100 coin star that I can think of to have no luck would be DDD 100 coins, and even that has lag as an issue. The point is, you can't just depend on hexing everything together.
As SP said, this is why the 120 star star is such a difficult task. Still, I really do believe it's doable, but it requires very hard work. I believe if all the best TASers came together and could all speak fluent English with each other, the project could start now, but you know, not everyone has time, and lots of top TASers that are Japanese have poor English, to the point of not being able to discuss SM64 easily.
