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Posted: 8/23/2010 10:00 PM
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Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
That was totally wicked! Keep up the awesome work... something this epic is worth waiting for.
Posted: 8/24/2010 12:56 AM
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BackwardLongJump
Joined: 8/30/2008
Posts: 55
Location: Seattle, WA
awesome MrGrunz! im looking forward to seeing the final product in the future :)
Posted: 8/25/2010 1:29 AM
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SpiDeY
Joined: 11/29/2005
Posts: 317
Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil
Awesome WIP MrGunz! Just a question: why didn't you transition from Zora to Deku like they did in the SDA run (to eliminate the putting-the-Deku-Mask scene)? Keep up the amazing work!
Posted: 8/25/2010 10:00 AM
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MrGrunz
Experienced player (604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Nintendo 3D TAS of 2014 N64/Wii TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 N64/Wii TAS of 2011
why does everybody ask me that? :( if you watch it carefully you'll realize, that I switch from deku back to normal link and then back to link again while not having the zora mask equipped in the woodfall area. I can't skip that scene without loosing more time in the end. and thanks that you all like that WIP :)
Posted: 8/25/2010 1:35 PM
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adeny
Joined: 2/10/2009
Posts: 13
How many explosives are you saving in the deku palace, and how will they be used? Also I might as well ask, the side-hops to get out of wrong warp seem awefully slow, can't you just slide it or something?
Posted: 8/25/2010 6:28 PM
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MrGrunz
Experienced player (604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Nintendo 3D TAS of 2014 N64/Wii TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 N64/Wii TAS of 2011
if I could have slided, I'd have done
Posted: 8/25/2010 6:33 PM
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Sonikkustar
Skilled player (1328)
Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.
Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021 Sega TASer of 2011 Sega TAS of 2011
I wonder how many bombs & chus you have saved from this, or any more recent routes that you guys have posted.
Homepage SVN
Posted: 9/3/2010 3:55 PM
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Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Not that many. The only thing that saves explosives from the last route that we posted is the new FFWW strat. I believe that was 3. However we get an additional bomb drop at the turtle owl, which nets to 8 more explosives.
Posted: 9/4/2010 4:10 PM
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MrGrunz
Experienced player (604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Nintendo 3D TAS of 2014 N64/Wii TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 N64/Wii TAS of 2011
not true. I saved a lot of explosives by cutting down the number of needed explosives by 1 at many places, so there is a lot more. probably 20 together with the FFWW. that route posted there is very old, slowi.
Posted: 9/5/2010 3:21 AM
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Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
but he did said "or any more recent routes that you guys have posted" and I'm pretty sure we did post more recent routes in this thread... Edit: For example this one: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=211342#211342 Anywho. @Sonikkustar Just watch Grunzes old WIP and his new WIP on youtube and count them. ;)
Posted: 9/8/2010 7:00 AM
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Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Grunz will hate me for that. But just fyi: After seeing this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCVZe2fqc_c I tested a little and I'm pretty sure that J 1.1 has the same bomb physics as the U-version. That means it has the fast text, the good bomb physics and a shortcut in PF (the room where you shoot the vesp nest from has a direct connection to the hookshot room). The only thing that is missing is the zora shield while holding still in water. And the GC J-version is a direct backport of the U-version, meaning it has all the improvements of U, plus faster text. Ofcourse that also means the shortcut in PF is removed. But the sad thing is: Japanese runs can easily beat Grunzs TAS. Since all Jianos testing was done on J 1.0 we thought J was useless, originally... I know it's not rally a problem for tasvideos, but it's still sad. And to make matters worse I think 1.1 and GC have less lag. Since U came out 6 months after J it makes sense that J 1.1 and U 1.0 are closely related. Why didn't anyone test that before? o.O Edit: after further testing I'm not sure how the bomb physics behave in 1.1. They don't seem to be quite as crappy as n 1.0, but they also don't seem up to par with U, as you have to swing your sword before you can chu hover against a wall. GC version however stil seems to be a port of U. Woud be cool if you could look into it a little, Grunz. Edit2: Ah I think from the comments I now understand why you have to swing your sword first. It has nothing to do with bomb physics. It's just that the power crouch stab works in J. Which means if you crouch stab without doing anything with your sword beforehand ISG will have the power of 0. And the power of 0 won't explode the chu. So you have to swing your sword once to get it to the power of 1. Btw. working crouch stab would also be a plus point for J... Still would like to know how the bomb physics hold up compared to the U version, i.e. if HISSing and triple staircases are possible, if hovers reach the same height, etc. And if 1.1-J and GC-J are different in that respect. If hissing and triple staircases are possible J seems way superior
Posted: 9/8/2010 1:48 PM
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Phallosvogel
Joined: 1/3/2006
Posts: 334
the shortcut in the hookshot room seems to be the only benefit. faster text is no argument for switching to j version. also zora-swimming seems to be a lot more useless since a) you cant fly and b) you stop swimming immediatly when you are too close to a shore
Posted: 9/8/2010 3:31 PM
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MrGrunz
Experienced player (604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Nintendo 3D TAS of 2014 N64/Wii TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 N64/Wii TAS of 2011
I have never been a fan of that Japanese rom stuff so as long as there is no major difference in the glitches I will won't switch the roms. I mean something like a new uber mega flip or something
Posted: 9/9/2010 4:16 AM
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Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Yeah I didn't mean for you to switch. Just talking about that I think it's sad that the japanese rom is better than we thought. I would still find it cool if you could test it out a little. Oh and gimme new m64. :p
Phallosvogel wrote:
the shortcut in the hookshot room seems to be the only benefit. faster text is no argument for switching to j version. also zora-swimming seems to be a lot more useless since a) you cant fly and b) you stop swimming immediatly when you are too close to a shore
Well Power Crouch Stab would cut down the time it takes to defeate some bosses a lot. Namely Ice Wizrobe, Garo Master and all form of Majora. (Well for Wizrobe and Garo Master it's not really a lot, but a little at least) Zora swimming doesn't seem to be much of a problem to me. Grunz doesn't zora swim anywhere anymore anyway. :D Sure no flying zora would cost a few explosives, but oh well. Oh and btw. if 1.1 really has less lag that alone wold make it legit to switch. Da Rules:
If it exists, use the (U) version of a ROM unless there is a good reason not to (as an example a shortcut/trick which only works in a different version, or superior music). * Good reasons for J over U o A big time saving trick or glitch that isn't possible in U o Less in-game lag vs U
So yeah 1-2 reasons that would make J 1.1 legit. (big time saving trick is rather subjective. Power Crocuh stab could qualify) Like I said I'm not for switching roms. I just find it sad that some japanese guy with a haf assed TAS could beat Grunzs. :( Edit: Yeah bomb physics are totally the same in J and U. Only ISG physics differ.
Posted: 9/9/2010 3:41 PM
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Eratyx
Active player (259)
Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 61
Sega TAS of 2020 Sega TAS of 2009
Slowking wrote:
Like I said I'm not for switching roms. I just find it sad that some japanese guy with a haf assed TAS could beat Grunzs. :(
You mean the same way the recent OoT TAS lost 6.5 minutes to slower text speed? It's true that the J ROM has that advantage, but I'm also wondering how pronounced the lag reduction is. If you took Grunz's route (where applicable) and applied it to the J version, how many frames could you save in any given minute?
Posted: 9/10/2010 9:33 AM
(Edited: 9/11/2010 1:33 AM)
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Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
I can't say. MM actually has more cutscenes than OoT, so probably more than the 6.5 minutes. However the giants cutscene does not have as much text as the compareable light arrow cutscene. So dunno, maybe it would coe out to the 6.5 minute again. Lag reduction I can't tell. It would have to be timed individualy how much time can be saved due to less lag. As certain areas are way more laggy than others... Power Crouch stab... well maybe 30 seconds.
Posted: 9/10/2010 11:14 PM
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keatsta
Joined: 12/30/2009
Posts: 49
Slowking wrote:
MM actually has more cutscenes than MM,
This is my favorite type of common typo. Immortalized.
Posted: 9/11/2010 1:33 AM
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Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
hmm kinda old type of typo. well fixed
Posted: 9/11/2010 4:15 PM
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Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Oh and apperently japanese BA has different effects. Testing happens here: http://forums.zeldaspeedruns.com/index.php?topic=499.0 Let's hope it doesn't give you remains. :D
Posted: 9/14/2010 8:00 AM
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Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Well I'm really not in the mood for ZSR anymore, so I'm going to put it here: Honeys and Darlings bombchu bowling not only gives you Chus on B, it also sets your Chus to infinite (not visible in the menu, though). You can test that when you activate a C-button anywhere cheats and use your normal bombchus in there. So maybe there is a way to get that infinite state out of there. Maybe with BA, or you might be able to hit those bytes with BA directly. Would be nice if somebody who knows his way around the RAM tool could see if that byte could be hit with BA.
Posted: 9/14/2010 10:41 PM
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KlydeStorm
Joined: 9/14/2010
Posts: 13
I just tested it, and leaving the shop via the door exit does not keep Bombchus on B. Warping out with Song of Soaring doesn't either. Ditto for dying. The timer is still going in all but the last, but that doesn't seem to do anything, even if you go back in the shop and let it expire there. You also don't have infinite Bombchus after any of these.
Posted: 9/15/2010 7:14 PM
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Slowking
Joined: 12/6/2008
Posts: 1193
Yeah I tested those myself. That's why my suggestions were to try some things with BA. Maybe even hot spring water that expires could do the trick, similar like forest water does a few neat glitches in WW. But it would be nice to know where the bytes for infinite chus are set in RAM. There were still a few bytes we couldn't assign to any function within BA reach and jap BA opens up a whole new part of the RAM.
Posted: 9/15/2010 9:26 PM
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MrGrunz
Experienced player (604)
Joined: 2/8/2009
Posts: 656
Nintendo 3D TAS of 2014 N64/Wii TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 N64/Wii TAS of 2011
slowi, come back to the irc. no need to talk to the others, but at least be there to talk to me, so we can discuss this bombchu thing a bit more ;)
Posted: 9/16/2010 4:12 AM
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MissileWaster
Joined: 7/9/2006
Posts: 20
Location: Texas
alright, i'm kinda just talking out of my ass here because i have no clue how game programming works, but i would assume that the game is running a function to temporarily change your supply of bombchus to be infinite when you start the bowling. so what you would need to do is find out at what point the game switches you back to finite bombchus, and find a way to interrupt that or otherwise bypass it to keep them at infinite. i know that with the wrong warp stuff, it works because all the fairy fountains are in the same area, just some aren't loaded, is this the same for buildings? if so, what would happen if you were to start an ISG off of the bombchu bowling couple, hover out of bounds, and make your way into an entrance/exit that isn't loaded? would it behave normally, as if you exited the bombchu bowling alley, or would the part of the game that changes B back to sword not be called since you didn't go out the front door?
Posted: 9/16/2010 9:00 AM
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RattleMan
Player (68)
Joined: 5/5/2007
Posts: 65
MissileWaster wrote:
alright, i'm kinda just talking out of my ass here because i have no clue how game programming works, but i would assume that the game is running a function to temporarily change your supply of bombchus to be infinite when you start the bowling. so what you would need to do is find out at what point the game switches you back to finite bombchus, and find a way to interrupt that or otherwise bypass it to keep them at infinite. i know that with the wrong warp stuff, it works because all the fairy fountains are in the same area, just some aren't loaded, is this the same for buildings? if so, what would happen if you were to start an ISG off of the bombchu bowling couple, hover out of bounds, and make your way into an entrance/exit that isn't loaded? would it behave normally, as if you exited the bombchu bowling alley, or would the part of the game that changes B back to sword not be called since you didn't go out the front door?
You can't use any sword in there so thus no ISG. I also tested using a walk-through-walls cheat coupled with the levitation cheat in order to leave the area (reloading ECT) without stopping the game/timer, but you just get your sword back. Interestingly though, the timer remains counting down even outside but does nothing except disappear when it reaches zero.
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