Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 178
Btw, I tested "Wak's/Tompa's" Swamp-to-Desert route, myself, many times, also using the second light-world map, in order to come to the conclusion that the route, in the above smv, is better, even with wobbling turned off. So, the second-light-world-map fact shouldn't bug anyone. It's to be debated, though, which one is safer for real-time; I think Wak's is, due to the first slope near the desert and its complete randomness. Below is some more information about the swamp. Walking diagonally in thick grass goes: 1px (both directions) 1px (both directions) 1px (both directions) 1px (one direction), 1px (other direction) 1px (both directions) 1px (both directions) 1px (both directions) "ZERO" PIXELS. Rinse and repeat. This is another reason why the above smv's route is better, because there are patches of grass, on the second swamp screen, that aren't thick. Then, I had a hell of a time manipulating actually walking diagonally through the thick grass that follows it, however. I don't even know what I did there, but it resulted in a good spot for the third swamp screen---for manipulating the first slope near the desert, perhaps even the subsequent slope. Now, walking vertically or horizontally through thick grass goes: 1px 1px 1px 2px This probably then repeats; though there are strange occurrences with 0px, I think. more weird physics: Dashing in the water on the first swamp screen loses about 10 frames. I haven't tested water-dashing's exact pixel physics. Subsequently: walking diagonally southwest in the swamp screen nearest to Link's house, to avoid the water, is too slow to ultimately be beneficial. more weird physics: Dashing between horizontal rows of thick grass causes Link to be slower, ultimately. You will notice the grassy animation surrounding his feet, when this happens. And I found it best to not touch anything in any room that you need to travel diagonally within. I realized that when I needed one less frame to enter the desert palace's cannonball room for the balls to not hurt me. Although, it all depends on what objects they are. Nothing to do about it but test endlessly.
<^>v AB X LR s
Tompa
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I'm certain that I tried that route when I TASed these screens, but I believe you took a slighty better path than I did. After optimizing it, it was 9 frames faster than the published run, neat. For the movement in grass, all diagonal directions have different movement patterns. Upleft: 5 frames up+left No movement 4 frames up+left No movement 4 frames up+left No movement Repeat. Upright: 1 frame up 4 frames up+right No movement 4 frames up+right No movement 4 frames up+right 1 frame right Repeat Downleft: 1 frame left 4 frames down+left No movement 4 frames down+left No movement 4 frames down+left 1 frame down Repeat Downright: No movement 4 frames down+right No movement 4 frames down+right No movement 5 frames down+right Repeat Slighty the same at least. Also, when you are going up+right, you can press down every second frame, and you'll always move one pixel in each direction. That was something I discovered in the making of the run when I tried to manipulate enemies, so some areas aren't using it. Going up/left/down/right in water/grass is basically the same. Only difference is that up and left starts with 2 pixels, and then 3 frames of 1 pixel, while down and right starts with 1 pixels for three frames, and then 2. Normal running is 4 pixels/frame, both up and down. Running in water/grass is 3 pixels. Running diagonal is a bit more complicated, I still haven't cared to go deep into it. I have all this, and more, written down in a "movement document" I used when TASing the game. Also had a plan to include it in the ALttP page at TASvideos, but I have been too lazy to do so...
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 178
Always bypass Dark Kakariko's fence, dunno if it's useful. Hit up+left on Dpad for one frame (also doable in real-time), basically while dashing at the same time. I also found a handful of improvements for real-time runs, but that's that.
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Tompa
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Nice. I knew that you could be pushed out from the wall when running diagonal, but had no idea that it could be used here (And probably more places as well). Keep these tricks coming and I'll include them in the new any% run.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 178
Is there a way to load up a batch of SMVs into some program, that can convert all of them to uncompressed AVI (or anything else)? I just recorded an SMV for each room in the water dungeon, though only for the purpose of showing off what can be done in real time runs. To get an answer more quickly, I'll show off this, which has TAS potential?
<^>v AB X LR s
Former player
Joined: 2/19/2007
Posts: 424
Location: UK
Oddity wrote:
Is there a way to load up a batch of SMVs into some program, that can convert all of them to uncompressed AVI (or anything else)? I just recorded an SMV for each room in the water dungeon, though only for the purpose of showing off what can be done in real time runs. To get an answer more quickly, I'll show off this, which has TAS potential?
Aside form the batch part, snes9x does this for you. I hacked up a an automatic web encoding service which is somewhat like what you're looking for, but it is buggy (only works for snes9x 1.43, and only with the most common options). It should work for your smv. Here it is: http://84.208.73.47/~sigurdkn/cgi-bin/smvlist Note: In addition to the other caveats, my IP address is not constant either. So this service is rather useless overall. At least it is easy to use. Edit: Oops, I had deactivated the service since it hadn't been used for so long. I have turned it on again now. Sorry about that.
arflech
He/Him
Joined: 5/3/2008
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amaurea wrote:
In addition to the other caveats, my IP address is not constant either. So this service is rather useless overall. At least it is easy to use.
DynDNS is your friend: http://www.dyndns.com/
i imgur com/QiCaaH8 png
Tompa
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Another nice thing there, Oddity. I certainly didn't think of that. Got anything else? =)
Joined: 8/1/2004
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Only one sorta major thing which you'll see watching Ikaruga's run (that I didn't come up with). Plus maybe this? Maybe the movement in general could prove useful.
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Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 178
Isn't there a way via luck manipulation to hit Moldorm with your sword, on your way down the cliff that you jump off from to get to him? I've done it or seen it done a few times. I don't see it in the published one.
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Tompa
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It is possible to do so. I had to delay too much time for it to be worth it though. Mostly because Moldorm moved too slow to get in position fast enough. But I do believe it should be possible to get such manipulation while still saving time, but I couldn't do it.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 178
Just lost entire life's hard drive. welp! (had backup on web months ago, but service frustrations arose and i'd ignored backups since. bla blabla) Anyway here's another improvement possibility, regarding the first two rooms shown. Forgot key in pot, but this is mainly demonstrating the boomerang possibility so that 32 frames or whatever can be saved by not using the cane.
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Joined: 8/1/2004
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I still recommend checking into my above post's probable improvement. However, view this file instead of that one. Compared to the published run, the frame additions and subtractions are rather erratic from beginning to end, so I don't know how much faster it is. But it could shave about 45 frames. It uses a skull pot instead of sword, and the boomerang instead of cane. And I didn't use wobbling, so the first screen's dash could be inefficient by comparison. (And there could be more overlooks.) Now, time for something that will save 1 frame ... unless a better precision is found for the published run's method. It's mainly interesting to watch because of similar applications that could show up across the game for the sword+beam combo. Also, here is a potentially massive and interesting real-time run project that I was inspired to start by request. Video descriptions and embeds will eventually be put on some wikia. So far, there likely isn't anything new for TAS. Although, I do wonder about TAS applications for arrows vs. boomerang in Agahnim's Tower. Speaking of arrows, I think Tompa has 5 redundant arrows left over at the end of the game. So, from what I can tell, the arrows in the water dungeon's statue room are unnecessary at the least; maybe a different bundle has even less meaning. Did anyone here ever let it be known that the mirror can be utilized almost immediately prior to entering the water dungeon, to make the blocks that you move disappear?
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Tompa
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I really like this minor improvements you are coming up with, very nice. For the arrows, I came up with better strategies in Ganon's Tower that saved me a few arrows, which obviously wasn't included in my arrow route for the run. And I didn't feel like redoing 2 dungeons in order to save 5-10 frames to fix this error. Looks a bit bad to have arrows left in the end, but this is the explanation for it at least. I don't understand what you mean with your last sentence... Do you mean the glitch when you use the mirror after you have pushed a block so that it disappears? Is there a different method that works with the US version as well? I'll see when I get back to TASing this game, either an improvement to my full run, or redoing the 100% run. I actually feel more like doing the any% run, as I already know of about 30 seconds of improvements (Not counting the stuff you have been posting).
Joined: 8/1/2004
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I found soon after that the block disappearing is not in the US version. 30 seconds, huh, sounds insane.
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Tompa
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Now when I think about it... 30 seconds is probably a little bit over the top. But I usually set a high goal, it gives me better motivation to try harder when running. Sadly, I wasn't thinking the same way when I made the previous TAS, as I was quite lazy with several things, such as manipulation. I'll do better next time.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 178
A playlist of most of the warps whose animation times can be shortened. (The channel is geared toward non-TAS, but these apply to any speed run.) It happens at specific x-axis points. (It can also happen after getting the shovel. But before I upload that I'm awaiting someone's SMV...that I made awhile back [but overwrote], which surprisingly got lucky enough to warp at the exact right spot, before I even knew about this technique.)
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Skilled player (1737)
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Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
I'm sure this has been posted already, but since I can't seem to find it, I'm going to post it here. These are the addresses for Link's position in the SNES version: *7E0020 - Vertical *7E0022 - Horizontal
Joined: 10/1/2007
Posts: 52
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Tompa
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I actually quit that project for now, or well... have it on hold. Main reason is the 100% definition, no matter what I set it to, people will complain.
Joined: 10/1/2007
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I'm sure this has been suggested a hundred times already, but why not use the criteria in the SDA run?
Tompa
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As that's technically not even 100%, considering that the bomb and arrow upgrades should be taken as well. And some people want me to take all compasses and maps as well, which I think is a complete waste. The more extreme ones suggest that I should "do-everything-you-can-in-the-game". Which includes blasting all walls, open all chests, visit all rooms etc. Everything the game will recognize that you have done. That is for me a idiotic goal, but still... People won't be satisfied and I can't be bothered to have such discussion when/if I submit a run
Joined: 10/1/2007
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That's ridiculous, that's like saying you have to visit every screen (including map and save rooms) on Super Metroid. It's a bit too obsessive, IMO. I can understand the bomb and arrow upgrades (which would significantly take away from the entertainment) but the other suggestions are just over the top.
Joined: 5/9/2005
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Tompa wrote:
Main reason is the 100% definition, no matter what I set it to, people will complain.
What is your definition?
Tompa
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All inventory items and fully upgraded stuff, and all heart containers obviously. What I will skip: Blue Mail (Because of the red one), blue boomerang (because of the red one), compasses, maps.