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those god damn japanese. don't even think about telling that guy to submit it here.
I should be able to save 5 minutes of that, although he has text advantage
oh man, I'm out going on with the TAS, maybe the kind of motivation I needed
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MrGrunz: I understand your situation, but I want to express I'm getting sick of all the hate towards the author of this TAS. The TAS being "shit" or an "abomination", or the author being a "shitty jap who doesn't know how to speedrun the game". This hasn't primarily been expressed by you, but by someone else, still I want to say I'm getting sick of it and don't want to read it here. Thanks for understanding.
Please use the run as a reference or a sample run instead of frowning upon it.
Okay, so when he picks up the bottled fairy, my first thought: "What new trick do they need a bottled fairy for now?" (Followed immediately by not one, but two decidedly pointless block-moving cutscenes.)
And then the fairy never becomes a factor for the rest of the movie.
422,000 rerecords and a simple but obvious oversight like that is still in?
Okay, so when he picks up the bottled fairy, my first thought: "What new trick do they need a bottled fairy for now?" (Followed immediately by not one, but two decidedly pointless block-moving cutscenes.)
And then the fairy never becomes a factor for the rest of the movie.
422,000 rerecords and a simple but obvious oversight like that is still in?
That isn't an oversight; that fairy and those cutscenes were not pointless. Please, if you're going to criticize this run then at least criticize the parts that are worthy of criticism :P
The fairy is required to time-stop the block so it carries Link across the gap.
so let's give some serious criticismn:
apart from the goth strategy, which is really cool, the TAS pretty much uses all the strategies I posted on my youtube channel. thus he doesn't do much routing over the whole run. there is one route improvement, though, which saves 10 seconds.
he uses the strategies of the WIP I posted and the ones shown in my most recent videos. he executes them pretty well, but still loosing time all around due to minor optimizing making him loose like 1 minute over the whole run, which isn't too much actually.
there are lots of strategies I kept secret, especially the ones of Pirate's Fortress, where my WIP is something around half a minute quicker than him.
GBT was well done, I think like a second can be saved, but not more.
He turned out being able to come up with his own bomb saving strategies here and there, so he figured out how to save 1 bomb when climbing Stone Tower, a strategy I haven't published yet. I'm actually going to do it a bit different any way saving a second.
STT was done pretty well, too. the swimming should have been replaced with a Jumpslash Water Slide (Abeshi did not figure out how to dive when doing a Super Swim), which is pretty much the only improvement. A death warp out of STT could have been done instead of warping, which can save 2-3 seconds.
Alltogether, the run is not that bad at all. It can be improved by 3 minutes, though, by doing some simple optimizing and using better strategies all over the place.
Awesome run :D
I really hope he submits!
Much better than the other TAS I have seen of this game.
and Grunz: sorry, but it seems to me that you are just jelaous that he managed to finish such a high-quality run.
Not that you haven't been doing a great job of finding tricks and planning the route etc, but this guy actually completed the best TAS ever of MM and that is pretty fucking great!
you know my WIP on youtube saves a minute of that TAS?
you are just too dumb to see the obvious improvements that are obviously there. I can post a comparison video, I'm quicker everywhere
and he even uses my inputs and some places. he hexed my stuff in without asking me!
To put it somewhat calmer:
Abeshi copied the first part of his run directly from Grunzs WIP, sometimes frame by frame, input by input, but still managed to make it worse. I could see improvements in every area he visited. There was never one area that was optimized.
Grunz says he can at least improve it by 3 minutes and I believe he is somewhat modest. Plus that is without the text advantage abeshi has because he used the japanese GC version (GC version has text speed of te american version but shorter text of the japanese version). So that would be 10 minutes of improvement at least.
I think it all comes down to this: If you guys want an unoptimized TAS that is in part stolen on this site, go ahead. Make im submit it and publish it.
I always thought TASvideos was better than this, but I maybe I'm wrong.
Synx, Grunz may be a bit jealous here, but his assessment is fairly accurate. The question remains whether those shortcomings are enough to warrant rejection should abeshi choose to submit.
Also, I noticed he was using a really bad graphics plugin to make that encode. It concerns me that the video might not sync with Jabo's 1.6, should the need for us to encode it arrive.
MrGrunz wrote:
apart from the goth strategy, which is really cool
I know, right? It totally spoke to my inner darkness.
Also, I noticed he was using a really bad graphics plugin to make that encode. It concerns me that the video might not sync with Jabo's 1.6, should the need for us to encode it arrive.
it probably won't. Grunzs TAS only syncs with the grapics plugin it was made with.
Mukkis run was kind of a special case, since he had quite some downtime in the run to make it sync at all...
Copying input without permission is enough to not warrant publication, but I'm sure the author's intentions were to just complete a run. Should he have credited Grunz's input and strategies, definitely. Should he be hazed, no not at all. He probably barely speaks English, so he has no clue of our normal courtesies at this site. Did he create a cool run to watch, sure. He even found a few time savers, which are surely worth crediting.
Is it worth publishing? No for two reasons.
1: It copies input without permission.
2: There is a run substantially in the works being created at this time that is of higher precision.
and Synx, sorry but it seems to me that you are incapable of thinking beyond "ZOMG fast run *drools*, publish nao."
This guy currently has the best complete TAS ever of MM. The ball is in Grunz court now.
Calling me a fucking idiot or insulting my "thinking capabilities" does nothing for your argument, neither is it polite.
I give credit where credit is due.
Of course the author uses the best tricks available to him, anything else would be retarded. Grunz (or anyone else making a new run) will use the "few" new timesavers found from this guy unless someone finds a bigger timesaver to replace it.
MrGrunz: I understand your situation, but I want to express I'm getting sick of all the hate towards the author of this TAS. The TAS being "shit" or an "abomination", or the author being a "shitty jap who doesn't know how to speedrun the game". This hasn't primarily been expressed by you, but by someone else, still I want to say I'm getting sick of it and don't want to read it here. Thanks for understanding.
These words are the soundest ones so far.
Come on, people, see the situation better. There's no law that says someone is prohibited to TAS a game that's being worked on. I really don't see what's the problem with him uploading his run to nicovideo. He showed no intention of submitting the movie to the site so far and he's already being accused of stealing input (without an emulator movie to prove afaik) and being called a thief who can't optimize a movie.
abeshi helped the site by obsoleting an OoT movie that could be beaten by a kid with a controller, and instead of gratefulness, his movie was hated by almost everyone who's knowledgeable of the game. That's why I think he won't submit it this time.
MrGrunz wrote:
you fucking idiot, you know my WIP on youtube saves a minute of that TAS?
how retarted are you? you are just too dumb to see the obvious improvements that are obviously there. I can post a comparison video, I'm quicker everywhere
and he even uses my inputs and some places. he hexed my stuff in without asking me!
Please, this is unnecessary. Not everyone who posts in this thread has to know everything about MM speedrunning. Don't call someone retarded because they can't see a 1-minute improvement.
synx, I was annoyed about the other statement you did:
and Grunz: sorry, but it seems to me that you are just jelaous that he managed to finish such a high-quality run.
this sounds to me like that: "this guy kicks your ass all day, he did the best TAS ever, you could never beat"
the thing is, did you ever think why I'm taking so long to finish the run? Maybe it is because I'm putting my heart into it every day to get the finest out of the game possible. and then you come here telling me, that I could never beat a TAS, that seems to be done with a controller in some places. that sounded a bit harsh to me, you know ;)
other than that, Abeshi downloaded an old m64 I posted here, that made it until woodfall, I think.
He used this m64 to hex in a lot parts without asking me for permission. he hexed in:
- the beginning of GB
- whole South Bay section
- the first FFWW
- the beginning of Ikana Canyon
Abeshi has to do the FFWW twice. the first time he used my inputs. if you watch both of them side by side, you'll even realize how the first one has clean movements and angles while the second one seems to be pretty chaotic.
the difference is remarkable ;)
don't take the stuff I said too seriously, synx. I was in rage when I wrote that and your post made that just a million times worse ;)
These words are the soundest ones so far.
Come on, people, see the situation better. There's no law that says someone is prohibited to TAS a game that's being worked on. I really don't see what's the problem with him uploading his run to nicovideo. He showed no intention of submitting the movie to the site so far and he's already being accused of stealing input (without an emulator movie to prove afaik) and being called a thief who can't optimize a movie.
if you read my criticismn about the TAS, you'll realize I'm not hating the movie at all. I actually like it. there are many improvements left to be made, but the author did a nice job.
only thing pissing me off are those people not realizing the improvements.
not realizing those improvements is the one side, but telling me then that I'm just jealous because I couldn't do such a run is the other one. and that's what synx did.
Your criticism was hard to interpret, MrGrunz. Sometimes you call the run "that shit" and its existence being a motivation to finish your run. Other times you say it's not that bad, despite being improvable by minutes.
The scenario may be different in the speedrunning community you attend, but our general audience here most of the time has no idea of the technical aspect of a TAS. You'd be pissed off by roughly 99% of the viewers here (including me ^^).
It's very common that someone who's new to TAS gets excited by a run to the point of calling "best movie ever" without proper knowledge, to them, it's more favorable to watch a reasonably good movie every month than wait years for an "unbeatable" submission (which normally has improvement in the very day it's submitted).
I agree that calling someone jealous is not the most recommended way to express feelings about a run, but replying harshly to such a comment leads nowhere.
Come on, people, see the situation better. There's no law that says someone is prohibited to TAS a game that's being worked on. I really don't see what's the problem with him uploading his run to nicovideo. He showed no intention of submitting the movie to the site so far and he's already being accused of stealing input (without an emulator movie to prove afaik) and being called a thief who can't optimize a movie.
Well there is no law that you can't make a TAS while one is already being made, but there is a code of conduct. However since he didn't submit it here this code hasn't been broken, so that's really not the problem.
However he did steal input, you can see it even without an input file. It's pretty clear when inputs change between stuff he did himself and stuff he hexed in from Grunzs WIP. That actually is against the rules and he should have at least credited Grunz.
abeshi helped the site by obsoleting an OoT movie that could be beaten by a kid with a controller, and instead of gratefulness, his movie was hated by almost everyone who's knowledgeable of the game. That's why I think he won't submit it this time.
Well let's be honest here. He didn't really help. His TAS was just sbumitted a few months before the current one was, that would have been made regardless and afaik his TAS contributed nothing new.
I'm really not hating on abeshi. He seems to make these things for fun and to post on nico video, where TASes don't have to have a good quality. I'm rather hating on people here who would let anything get published, no matter how bad, as long as it's slightly faster than the current run.
