Posted: 3/17/2005 10:20 PM
Post subject: glitch tricks in realplay
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moltar
Joined: 12/8/2004
Posts: 5
wasn't sure whether to throw in general or here or elsewhere, but i was curious if some of the glitches that are done in video can be done with the game being played at normal speed. for example, the rockman2 teleporting along the ceiling, castlevania 2 fall through floor, mario 1 going through wall, etc pardon if it's a stupid question, it's just something i'm curious about thanks :-)
Posted: 3/17/2005 10:21 PM
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Zurreco
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Joined: 8/1/2004
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Everything in these movies is theoretically possible in realtime. However, anything that requires frame specific movement will probably never be seen outside of emulation. I know that most glitches shown, though, are doable on console.
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Posted: 3/17/2005 11:02 PM
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slash_star_dash
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Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 518
actually... in Ghost Babel, i've noticed that at Toggle 25% i can evade some enemies sight when just running by them but when played back in realtime, it doesnt work... i get caught and subsequently die. now, im not entirely sure this is a desync or not, so i went in and tried it a few times in real time myself... and it never worked. of course, i may have not been doing frame for frame the EXACT same thing, but it was pretty close i think. anywho, thats my little take on it.
Posted: 3/18/2005 7:06 AM
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Truncated
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I did the fall trough floor trick in Castlevania 2 on my second try. Never succeded again after that. So it's possible, but not realistic to pull off consistently. EDIT: The zipping trough the ceiling in Bubble Man's level (after pausing repeatedly) is also easy to do. The other ceiling glitches in MM2 are a lot harder to pull off.
Posted: 3/18/2005 12:50 PM
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nesrocks
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its near impossible for a human being to push a button for 1/60 of a second, and many glitches involve various movements at that speed. slower glitches are usefull, but not those
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Posted: 3/18/2005 12:52 PM
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DeHackEd
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Every trick in my Mega Man X video I use (except the zero-damage hit) can be done on the real console. I pulled off one or two of the tricks in the famous "Crazy God Technique" SMB1 video (the mushroom midair jump, and I did succeed in the wall-jump... once out of a hundred tries). Really hard to do though.
Posted: 3/18/2005 1:09 PM
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Bisqwit
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Most of the tricks in all movies are possible to perform in real play, but the chance of failing a try is directly proportional to the value of the following formula: complexity^1.5 * difficulty * (length-relaxation) / (luck^2 * (log(resolution+1)+1)) where * complexity = number of different buttons pressed * difficulty = number of button state alternations in the critical period * length = length of the critical part of the sequence in frames * relaxation = number of possible relaxation frames in the sequence (frames of little activity) * resolution = acceptable variation in number of frames inside the critical period * luck = percentage how often this trick is possible / 100 That is, for the ceiling trick in Rockman 1: complexity = 4, difficulty = 6, length = 20, relaxation = 15, resolution = 1, luck = 1; result ~= 142 For the walljump trick in SMB1: complexity = 1, difficulty = 2, length = 40, relaxation = 30, resolution = 6, luck = 1; result ~= 6.8 which means that the ceiling trick requires 142/6.8 ~= 21 times more tries than the walljump trick when playing at real time. For the floor trick in Castlevania 2: complexity = 1, difficulty = 1, length = 5, relaxation = 0, resolution = 0, luck = 0.3; result ~= 56. Ps: don't mock my perfectly good pseudoscience, even though I changed the formula a few times. ;)
Posted: 3/18/2005 3:36 PM
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Cazlab
Joined: 7/5/2004
Posts: 551
Location: Karlstad, Sweden
I think this is an interesting question cuz I always try to do the amazing tricks I see in these timeattacks on a real console. But sure it is very difficult. Like the megaman 2 item 1 going thru walls trick.. God it really irritated me! I tried it thousands of times! But finally I got it right and I was more happier than ever ;D
Posted: 3/18/2005 11:13 PM
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moltar
Joined: 12/8/2004
Posts: 5
i was figuring the go through the walls ones in mario weren't going to be possible by my hands from memory of reading more on them, but there were ones that interested me. i was trying a few of them for a while knowing they'd be extremely difficult to do and people watching thinking what the heck is he doing, but to go for it and pull it off, the sense of pride would be worth it ya know. going to make me try for that mm2 ceiling trick now ^_^
Posted: 3/19/2005 1:57 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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You can definitely do the flying egg trick in Eggerland--it's got an 8-frame window of opportunity. Walking past Don Medusas takes a bit of luck, though. You have to be out of synch with their movement cycles by a barely perceptible amount. And I found a time-saving trick in level 3-2 of Adventures of Lolo 2 that I don't think you'd ever want to try in realtime. You have to shoot a Gol at the exact instant it regenerates. Go one frame too early or late, and you're dead.
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Posted: 3/19/2005 7:01 AM
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suraimu
Joined: 3/17/2005
Posts: 67
Well, without breaking or seriously modifying your controller, none of the LEFT+RIGHT or UP+DOWN glitches are possible on the actual game hardware. But did you mean playing at normal speed possibly on an emu, or on the actual hardware in a "legit" play of the game?
Posted: 3/19/2005 7:32 AM
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BoltR
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suraimu wrote:
Well, without breaking or seriously modifying your controller, none of the LEFT+RIGHT or UP+DOWN glitches are possible on the actual game hardware.
I wouldn't call it a serious modification, all you need is a screwdriver...
Posted: 3/19/2005 10:49 AM
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According to Omnipotent in the Zelda in 5-minutes submission, it's possible, but "you have to have popeye arms."
Posted: 3/19/2005 11:03 AM
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Bisqwit
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Truncated wrote:
According to Omnipotent in the Zelda in 5-minutes submission, it's possible, but "you have to have popeye arms."
And since the game Wrath of Black Manta _requires_ to press left+right or up+down to access some non-hidden techniques (and I've done it even on a supermarket demo console without breaking it), it's not that big deal.
Posted: 3/19/2005 11:07 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Why would it require you to do that?
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Posted: 3/19/2005 11:12 AM
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Bisqwit
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Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Why would it require you to do that?
Well, it's not like the techniques are vital for game completion, but the fact is that they are invoked by certain button combinations, and some of them are invoked by pressing opposite directions.
Posted: 3/19/2005 11:18 AM
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Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
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Some are possible, and some aren't really that difficult to do (though there's always a good amount of luck involved), but in the case of world records, Twin Galaxies won't accept them (blast ye!) It would be fun to see some of those tricks done in real-time.
Posted: 3/19/2005 12:31 PM
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Well, it's not like the techniques are vital for game completion, but the fact is that they are invoked by certain button combinations, and some of them are invoked by pressing opposite directions.
No, this is incorrect. The tech select screen shows both left and right pressed, but you only need one of them. I played the game just now to check, it's fully possible to do a fire wheel tech pressing only either left or right. (I had almost forgotten how crazy the music, story and dialogue of this game is.) I think I've said this before.
Posted: 3/19/2005 12:34 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
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Ha... So what they meant is that you can press left OR right to do it. Okay. That clears it all up for me.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude