How plausible is this Lanmolas strategy for a human run...
It took me around 1200 rerecords to do that. Though it's made easier that they cannot hit you when they're stunned. And there's no stun time at all with arrows.
But arrows are worth 3 times a sword swipe with them. So you might be able to hit each sandworm twice and kill them in two rounds.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
This new llanmolas fight is...stunning! However, it's near impossible for a human player to do it. The bow could certainly save some time though if used properly. You'll need 8 arrows for the castle tower if you plan on using them against the chain troopers, which saves a few seconds.
If the steps in the castle are slower than jumping off a ledge, you can save a couple frames in the room to the left of the boomerang - if you move over to the corner you can jump down instead of taking the steps.
*faceplant* That was stupid of me. Unyeildingly stupid of me.
I mean... just... arggggh!
head
hit
keyboard
Is anyone willing to wait another 2 weeks or so for this, because now, I *really* want to go back and fix that, from the Armos fight. But then again, this has taken such a long damn time already, I'm afraid of pissing people off. ^_^;
Weigh in. I'll decide whenever I get the new snes9x compiled under Linux.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 5/17/2004
Posts: 106
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
You can't get everything perfect on the first pass, going back and trying to fix every error will just burn you out. I'd let it lie, were I you.
'course, I'm not you, which is probably fortunate for the quality of this run.
If the steps in the castle are slower than jumping off a ledge, you can save a couple frames in the room to the left of the boomerang - if you move over to the corner you can jump down instead of taking the steps.
Have you really tried this? I don't believe it's possible to jump there, the corner isn't far enough away from the stairs.
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
I'll decide whenever I get the new snes9x compiled under Linux.
Oops, am I holding this up? (I thought you were either using windows or wine, I don't really know what improvements can carry across into a Linux build.)
How possible is it to hexedit this thing together in stages? I know that viper used that technique in his marathon 96-exit run of SMW (amazing stuff there) and was able to splice different runs together with only a few frames of luck manipulation in between sections to sync things up. I suspect that Zelda would be harder to splice together than SMW but it is possible that I'm wrong.
Are there any tools that would make this type of hex-editting easy? It would be great as in theory this would allow fixing earlier mistakes and maybe even independant runs of the different dungeons but I dont know how easy/hard it would be with this game...
This signature is much better than its previous version.
How possible is it to hexedit this thing together in stages? ... to splice different runs together with only a few frames of luck manipulation in between sections to sync things up.
This is possible, I've done it before (very briefly) with similarly random games, but it's actually WAY more work than just starting over from the point of the mistake, and it's also less optimized because it misses out on more favorable random conditions that might have opened up.
(It would become more possible if we knew something about how this game determines its random numbers (for instance if it just depended on the frame and it wrapped around every some number of frames), but I don't think anything like that is known...)
I'll decide whenever I get the new snes9x compiled under Linux.
Oops, am I holding this up? (I thought you were either using windows or wine, I don't really know what improvements can carry across into a Linux build.)
I finally turned my work computer into a Debian box (and that's where I do >50% of my speedrunning). But I also have my home box and my girlfriend's box. So it's not a big deal. But I figured I'd have it compiled by the end of the week if it kills me, and that's when I can work on it anyway.
@asteron: I'll pass on the hexing, it's easy enough just to redo it, and I'll have to redo all the rooms with any sort of enemy in it anyway.
@nitsuja: It seems that all randomness in the game is affected by which way you're facing, where you are, if you happen to be performing an action at the time, and what frame you enter the room in, (such as running, swording, arrowing, &c), of these it seems only the first and the third effect enemies, and the first and second for item drops. However, with enemies with AI it's not possible to seriously affect their randomness with anything other than the frame you enter the room in.
The reason why I asked is because chances are I'm not going to make another run of this for at least a year and it's around 3-4 seconds of improvement. But on the flip side, it's taken me well over a month to get this far.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
If the steps in the castle are slower than jumping off a ledge, you can save a couple frames in the room to the left of the boomerang - if you move over to the corner you can jump down instead of taking the steps.
Have you really tried this? I don't believe it's possible to jump there, the corner isn't far enough away from the stairs.
I just went and checked, and you're right. I must be thinking of some other area. Whoopsie.
An arrow = 3 sword hits to Lanmolas?
Would it be say...prudent...to keep redoing a legit run...trying to take down 1 LANMOLA at a time?
Say, first round they pop out - could a human kill 1 in that time with arrows?
Then the 2nd time the two pop out, kill another?
Finally, on the third, kill the last?
To me, this would be worth redoing over and over on a legit run, if somebody could forsee this being possible. My target goal is to kill them all in under 5 "pop outs" I want to pick up about 20-30 seconds on this battle. I know I can do it, after much practice, I'm surgical with this bitch (the arrows).
Well, the lanmolas seem to have three different speeds and three different heights. They spawn and go through whatever routine in the air they chose. You can load four arrows onto any of the patterns provided you happen to be standing in the correct place. I give you a one in 3 or 4 on any single lanmola for the possibility of getting four arrows. So from 1/27 to 1/64 probability of completing it in three rounds with perfect arrow firing. I suggest trying to get two on each (much easier) and completing it in two.
But if you decide to take it one at a time, I suggest starting at the last one. Because if you manage to kill them all in three rounds you won't have to wait for the last one to spawn in the last round, just the first. And that's about 5-6 seconds right there.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
The main difficulty is that if you miss a single arrow, you can't fire another arrow until it hits the wall, and the chance of getting even 2 arrows in is pretty low. The other problem is that unless they're heading straight toward you they move too fast to get many shots in.
I think the best that could be done in a human run is to:
1- stand near where one is about to appear, on the side of it that's closest to the center of the room, and fire an arrow at just the right time so it'll hit it when it pops out (this the only part that doesn't rely on luck, mostly just timing practice)
2- if it hit, keep firing until an arrow misses
3- when an arrow doesn't hit, rush in and start swinging the sword. It may help to keep the sword charged during all the previous arrow-firing to get off a spin slash, if spin slashes do more damage than a regular slash to lanmolas
4- switch targets and repeat, starting from step 3 if you're either not lined up right or not able to fire an arrow
I think killing them in less than 6 "pop outs" with this (or any) strategy would require an unbelievable amount of luck as well as LOTS of practice.
Hmm... I just finished watching the run.
I think I shall do #2 second. I was unaware that the hookshot had no "wind-up" time. Which makes it very useful indeed.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
I was out last week, because I was busy at work. I was out this weekend because of Easter. And I'm out next week because I'll be royally slammed at work.
Anyway, I decided against going back. I need to get this done and work on other stuff. I'll come back and fix it later. Along with all the little 1 or two frame mistakes I have in this version.
Oh, and much <3 to Dehacked.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
yep like that. thats where I got the idea to do it. Pretty cool glitch. Too bad I didn't know about this earliar, I could of done it without the emulator.
Dear sweet Zelda I have not forgotten about thee.
http://www.nerdparadise.com/crap/LoZLttP-Omni-WIP.smv
Not *much* of an update. But it'll do 'till I can fully plan the third dungeon.
Note: It's faster to go around the pit than to go over it, unfortunately. As you only go half speed while voidwalking.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
As noted a few pages back, I've lost about 3 seconds so far. Going back I also noted more than a few places where I could have saved a frame or more. I plan to just finish this one and use it as a measuing stick whenever I come back to this vid. If anything, if it doesn't get published then it'll be a good starting point.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
