Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 570
Location: 33°07'41"S, 160°42'04"W
In Game Gear Putt & Putter, at the end of the 18 "Beginner" holes, you are given a password (PUTT) which unlocks the 18 "Master" holes. That is another example of usable password (in my opinion). Maybe someday I will finish my TAS of it, but there are already two games of golf on TASvideos and I fear there is no room for more.
Banned User, Former player
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
adelikat wrote:
All the warp glitch Rygar runs employ death to skip massive parts of the game. Rygar only has 1 life, thus there is a big fat game over screen in all those movies.
Well, part of it might be that many people here consider (for a reason I personally don't fully understand nor agree with) that using an "cheat" offered by the game itself (whatever the definition might be in this case) is not ok, but if an unintended glitch is involved, then it becomes ok. Thus the rationale seems to be that a gameover in general is not ok, unless it's used to glitch yourself forward in the game. As said, personally I don't see why glitching should make any difference in this whole issue.
Active player (370)
Joined: 6/5/2006
Posts: 188
Location: Malmö, Sweden
This is a pretty interesting topic. I personally side with moozooh in that abusing continues is very similar to using a cheat code. And in the example of Metal Slug, where using continues refill your resources(grenades), I would not abuse them if I were making a run. But at the same time I do not think this goes against site policy, and would probably not vote no on a run that does abuse continues. I'd say this just amounts to different categories.
Even the best player is limited by the speed of his fingers, or his mind's ability to control them. But what happens when speed is not a factor, when theory becomes reality?
Player (183)
Joined: 12/24/2010
Posts: 144
Location: Brazil
Warp wrote:
adelikat wrote:
All the warp glitch Rygar runs employ death to skip massive parts of the game. Rygar only has 1 life, thus there is a big fat game over screen in all those movies.
Well, part of it might be that many people here consider (for a reason I personally don't fully understand nor agree with) that using an "cheat" offered by the game itself (whatever the definition might be in this case) is not ok, but if an unintended glitch is involved, then it becomes ok. Thus the rationale seems to be that a gameover in general is not ok, unless it's used to glitch yourself forward in the game. As said, personally I don't see why glitching should make any difference in this whole issue.
I think this apply to Earthbound glitched run then right? because the player dies and goes to a game over screen but its because the glitch bring him there but its reasonable , since it warped him forth to the game end.
My main objective here is to TAS the most obscure games titles!
KennyMan666
He/Him
Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
I voted no on the Metal Slug X TAS, because I cannot accept continues being used in an arcade game, especially not a shmup or run'n'gun, because the entire arcade community agrees that if you didn't one credit clear, you didn't beat the game (alright, two players, so two credits, but you know what I mean). Finite reseources versus infinite resources, yeah. By and large, I agree with moozooh. But it's also a case-by-case thing. Now, take the Ufouria TAS. The reason I pick that is a) because I console speedrun it myself and b) because it was the only one that came to mind. It uses deathwarping. You have no lives - dying and then hitting Continue means you're put at the location where you begin the game, but you have all the items you had when you died. Lives were turned into an infinite resource, used a lot, and you could easily make a case for that being Game Over. That was a TAS I had been anxiously awaiting, and when it was submitted, I was the first person to happily vote yes. Hypocritical? Maybe. But to me, continues in arcade games and console games are slightly different. Arcade games, especially run'n'guns and shmups, are by design short(-ish) games, made to hate and kill you, so that you spend a lot of quarters to get to the end, and this is also why most games (again, I'm largely from a shmup and run'n'gun mindset here) respawns you at the same point when you continue. And in an arcade, you actively compete with other players by way of the high score table, and as was previously mentioned, a lot of arcade games add a 1 at the end of your score when you use a continue (and oftentimes clears the rest of the score), as a mark of shame, and points out the score as not having been attained "fairly", in lack of a better word. Console games don't work like that. There's no money. Most games put you back at the start of the current stage, or even the current "world" when you continue, and some do it when you die. They're made with a different mindset entirely. Game Overs usually cost a lot of time, you go to a game over screen, you have to start over from some point... And I think that it's here, somewhere, that I can accept continuing in console games in a different way. In arcade games, using continues serve as nothing but to make lives an infinite resource, to gain a little time on the very screen it's used. And to get powerups from nowhere. In console games, using a Game Over to save time is only done when there's a VERY GOOD REASON to do so, such as aforementioned death warping or glitching.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Player (183)
Joined: 12/24/2010
Posts: 144
Location: Brazil
KennyMan666 wrote:
In console games, using a Game Over to save time is only done when there's a VERY GOOD REASON to do so, such as aforementioned death warping or glitching.
I've been thinking in an example to show, like on the Bionic Commando Arcade Tas thats on the site, the author foregoes deaths because he could easily death warp to the top of screen saving a good bunch of time, so if he used continues then he could just skip the stages without doing nothing but just dying until get to the top, skipping most action of the stage and decreasing a lot of the run entertaiments, I surely feels ok about deaths/continues being used for glitch purposes but not to just skip somes action places that can provide a bit of fun just in order to save time...
My main objective here is to TAS the most obscure games titles!
Post subject: You people got it wrong
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (2106)
Joined: 5/22/2007
Posts: 1134
Location: Glitchvania
The points: * "Cheat" is not everything called or containing the word "cheat" in a game or a TAS. Note: Thinking in a different language might help. [/sarcasm] * Cheating occurs only when the player breaks the rules. * Inequalities: (run) rules adopted by player(s) ≠ (game) rules set by developer(s) (this) TAS community ≠ another community objectives chosen by a player ≠ community's/usual objectives on games/runs to fail to realize all the objectives ≠ to break the rules * There are no laws that work in all possible situations.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
Joined: 4/3/2005
Posts: 575
Location: Spain
I think arcade TASes should use at most a single credit per player, and new players cannot join in the middle of the game. That's the rule that makes the most sense, as that has been a well-known feat for ages.
No.
adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3599)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4739
Location: Tennessee
DrJones wrote:
and new players cannot join in the middle of the game.
Awwwwwwwww :(
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
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Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11274
Location: RU
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.