Post by Torgen

Posted: 3/24/2005 3:44 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Player (206)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

Oh Yeah, get every ending along the way, and every variation of every ending It's the 700-in-1 NES game

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 3/24/2005 12:25 PM

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Saturn

Player (206)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

Viewer wrote:

Unfortunately, the rules here state that a game can't be resumed from a save point for a movie, and NG+ equals that. So, even if Saturn was insane enough to do all that, it wouldn't be accepted.

Don't worry guys, with 100% I mean to get as much items as possible without NewGame+ and Its right 100% means at least 1 of every item not 99 and as much as possible of a item that I only can get temporary like the Third Eye which ups your evade rate 2x. This means I have to charm it from both Nitzbels and get it from the NU in hunting range so there are max 3 possible in one NewGame. The best thing is I can get really every possible item (186 are possible in total) at least 1 time in a normal NewGame so I don't even need to do a NewGame+. One exception: Of course I will not level up to level 99 since this would cost me about 4-5 hours more and because of that I have to skip the Pink Nu Form of Spekkio. But everything else will be done, the stats will be maxed out (with Power/Magic/Speed Tabs) of the 3 main characters I will use and the rest to the other 4 balanced, and of course I have to learn all Single/Double/Tripple Techniques with all characters, if done correctly it don't take me long to do that. Honestly, If you really want to see a absolute perfect 100% walktrough in a - for a non tool assisted run awesome time of 9 hours and 9 min with absolutely everything perfect guaranted take a look at my latest, best and last movie I have done on ZSNES (so far) on www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/zsnesmovies.htm this movie is splitted up in 8 balanced parts (zmv-zm7) so you don't have to watch everthing from beginning if you missed something. If I will make a tool assisted run it will be almost the same like this one only even more optimized and Im really interested how many minutes/hours can be saved with this feature compared to this ZSNES masterpiece.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 3/24/2005 10:32 PM

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suraimu

Joined: 3/17/2005
Posts: 67

Saturn wrote:

Viewer wrote:
Unfortunately, the rules here state that a game can't be resumed from a save point for a movie, and NG+ equals that. So, even if Saturn was insane enough to do all that, it wouldn't be accepted.
Don't worry guys, with 100% I mean to get as much items as possible without NewGame+ and Its right 100% means at least 1 of every item not 99 and as much as possible of a item that I only can get temporary like the Third Eye which ups your evade rate 2x. This means I have to charm it from both Nitzbels and get it from the NU in hunting range so there are max 3 possible in one NewGame. The best thing is I can get really every possible item (186 are possible in total) at least 1 time in a normal NewGame so I don't even need to do a NewGame+. One exception: Of course I will not level up to level 99 since this would cost me about 4-5 hours more and because of that I have to skip the Pink Nu Form of Spekkio. But everything else will be done, the stats will be maxed out (with Power/Magic/Speed Tabs) of the 3 main characters I will use and the rest to the other 4 balanced, and of course I have to learn all Single/Double/Tripple Techniques with all characters, if done correctly it don't take me long to do that. Honestly, If you really want to see a absolute perfect 100% walktrough in a - for a non tool assisted run awesome time of 9 hours and 9 min with absolutely everything perfect guaranted take a look at my latest, best and last movie I have done on ZSNES (so far) on www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/zsnesmovies.htm this movie is splitted up in 8 balanced parts (zmv-zm7) so you don't have to watch everthing from beginning if you missed something. If I will make a tool assisted run it will be almost the same like this one only even more optimized and Im really interested how many minutes/hours can be saved with this feature compared to this ZSNES masterpiece.

Well, you can't even get 1 of every item. There's that one point where you get the Swallow sword or whatever the armor was. You can't get both unless you play New Game+ and choose differently the second time through. But I'd still like to see this run anyway. Just saying.

Posted: 3/25/2005 12:48 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Player (206)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

Well, I read somewhere you can Charm the other item (Safe Helm?) off an enemy. But you'd better double-check to make sure.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 3/25/2005 2:24 AM

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ventuz

He/Him

Player (125)

Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940

If Saturn going to do 100% on CT someday, will it include odd items like Mop and 2x fang, 2x petal, 2x horn, 2x feather (Twin charm on hunting forest creatures)?

Posted: 3/25/2005 2:29 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Player (206)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

Yeah, hmm... I was never sure when those 2x things turn into 2 of the real item.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 3/25/2005 10:59 AM

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Saturn

Player (206)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

Well ventuz you got me, in this case there are not 186 but 190 items possible! I never charmed of the hunting range creatures except of Nu because I did it one time long ago but don't realized I get a extra 2 Petals, Horns... item for that, I just thought that its a normal item like the one of Nu which I get 3 times of every. And this way its much faster to get experience and this items. I'm really surprised about this. Do anybody know more of such odd tricks? About Swallow/Safe Helm: I take the Swallow in the chest and charm the Safe Helm of the Lavos Spawn in Black Omen to get both of them. Many rare and very expensive items I don't have cash for them to buy can be only gotten by charming so Ayla is definitely one of the 3 main characters I will use (besides she is the strongest, fastest and with the best defense character of the game - unavoidable) A hint: You can load the last file of my zsnes movie (zm7) even on a windows ZSNES like the official version 1.42 of www.zsnes.com to see and compare all 186 items (170 + 16 equiped items). This file is just before lavos fight. Of course the movie will desync on this version but as a savestate you can use it on every emulator. Just play it back and cancell it imediately to have full controll to open the item menu then.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 4/1/2005 5:42 PM

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Tilus

Former player

Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177

Alright, after thinking things over for a very long time, I decided that since I was close enough to winning the game, and that there were just too many errors and things I did wrong with the movie to continue, I just dropped the current version of the movie and started from scratch. (This version was recorded with SNES9x 1.43 Final, non-improved version). Hope you like the new things I did with the movie!

Posted: 4/1/2005 9:41 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Player (206)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

Well, are you SURE you could have beaten Lavos at that point?

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 4/1/2005 10:22 PM

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Tilus

Former player

Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177

Alright, I think that's enough of that.. Happy April First to you all, too. ;) Anyways, as for real progress (no, I'm not really starting over yet!), nothing at the moment, besides occasionally working on the distraction posted above in order to get me interested in this game again. (I'll throw up another topic for that shortly.) And yes, I'm sure I can beat Lavos at this point in the game, save for possibly buying more Revives and/or charming more Megalixirs in the Black Omen, which actually won't set me back more than a few minutes.. though I'm going to try to win with the number of items I've got now.

Posted: 4/18/2005 6:06 PM

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Tilus

Former player

Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177

Okay, I think I've teased you all long enough. XD Over the past few days I've been experimenting with the Lavos battle again, and the more I do so the more I realize that I'm not going to win with the setup I've got now, without quite a bit of backtracking. First off, I'm going to go ahead and post WIP 05 for you all to analyze and laugh at. (Yeah, it's pretty bad. I've lost count of how many mistakes I've made in this part of the run.) Part 2 is also included for whoever wants to join the whole thing into one massive 5 hour long SMV (part 1 is the same as last time). Run stops midway through the Lavos 2 battle, with both arms defeated (somehow). As you can see, bringing 3 Revives and 5 Megalixirs won't cut it against this thing, so I'm probably going to have to resort to picking up more, or maybe even *shudder* going ahead and picking up yet more M.Def for Robo. Anyways, if you have any questions about what I did, or how to improve something that's not really obvious, feel free to tell me (as long as I can figure out just why I did what I did).

Posted: 4/19/2005 2:14 PM

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Saturn

Player (206)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

I watched the 3rd part. The lavos battle was crazy and I think you can't win here at least against the Lavos Core if I see that even Lavos 2 take 1500 HP + instant death to Robo already. I would recommend you should finish the Geno Dome since it will give your Robo Speed+3 M.Def+10 and the very useful Crisis Arm which is a must in a low level for a massive damage.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 4/20/2005 12:56 AM

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Tilus

Former player

Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177

Well, I have three reasonable options to get more M.Def for Robo, and they are as follows: 1) Defeating Atropos in Geno Dome - Pros: +10 M.Def and +3 Speed applied to base stats, no need for equipment changes, if I finish the Geno Dome sidequest, I can also pick up the Crisis Arm, which if anything helps me kill the left bit of Lavos 3 faster. I also visit the Geno Dome anyways, so I don't need to visit any extra locations and flows with the run fairly well. - Cons: This quest is VERY SLOW. I'll probably spend at least 10 minutes out of my way to get to Atropos (you must have obtained both dolls in order to trigger the encounter), more if I go ahead and defeat MotherBrain to pick up the Crisis Arm. 2) Obtaining the Moon Armor in the Northern Ruins - Pros: Not too far out of the way, lots of enemies to defeat (which helps break the monotony of the infernal Geno Dome conveyor belt), pretty short quest otherwise, also gives Robo much better physical defense than the wussy Dark Mail I have on him now - Cons: Only +5 magic defense more over the Dark Mail, need to do a bit of running back and forth which may be just as annoying as the conveyor belt 3) Charm the Flea Vest off of Flea Plus - Pros: An incredible +12 M.Def bonus, is already very close to my planned route and shouldn't take more than a couple minutes over what I'm taking now - Cons: Flea Vest is an accessory, which means it'll replace the Amulet I have on Robo now - meaning I have at least two people unprotected against statuses. Should Lavos disable status protection on Magus, and I'm unable to luck manipulate out of it, I'll be in for a world of pain on the final battle. I also have to wonder if any of the above three options will save any time than if I just decide to go ahead and spend my cash on more Revives and the like at a shop just before I take the time trip to 1999 AD. I'll probably have to do at least two of the above, as well, if I'm to expect to be able to take hits from Lavos's more powerful magic with Robo, so that's something for me to consider as well.. this is why I decided against going on these sidequests in the first place, and why I likely won't do so on the final run either.

Posted: 4/20/2005 2:01 AM

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bobucles

Joined: 7/27/2004
Posts: 48

What about using barrier items? A magic barrier will cut magical damage by a cool third, which can end up being quite a bit. The items do wear out after a minute or so, so you may have to get too many of them to be worth it. What about equipping one character with all +MDef equipment, and manipulating as many magic attacks on him as possible? MDef isn't very meaningful at low levels, but the closer you get to 99%Mdef, you become practically immune. The flea vest would be perfect for that.

Posted: 4/20/2005 4:35 AM

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Tilus

Former player

Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177

I was using barrier items during the final battle with Lavos (both physical barriers and magical barriers). The Geno Dome robots dropped a few dozen barriers on me when I powerleveled there, so running out is not a concern. That "two of the above" comment above does take into consideration magic barriers - to do so without barriers I'll probably need to do all three and maybe even gain a few more levels on top of what I've got now. Trying to manipulate magic onto one character can't be done, simply because nearly all of Lavos's magic attacks (and ALL the painful ones) target the entire party. Tomorrow I'm probably going to go ahead and back up to the end of the Black Omen, buy some items off the Nu merchant right before I warp back out, then take another shot at Lavos, and see if I fare better this time, knowing that I won't be in too much trouble if it floors Robo with a spell of mass destruction. I believe the Lavos 2 battle will actually be the more difficult of the two - the Lavos Core battle only has one offensive attacker bit, and it's fairly easily dispatched (only 10000 HP), and once both the left and center bits are down I have all day to go about spamming OmegaFlare on the Core.

Posted: 4/20/2005 10:34 AM

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Saturn

Player (206)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

The Omega Flare is a really good choice since it is one of the best fullscreen attacks and you don't even have to learn it since you get it from the Blue Rock. But in the battle against lavos core: Is it maybe better to dispatch the left bit first (2000 HP) as fast as possible and then to use Omega Flare on the other 2 bits? So you can damage the right bit and dispatch the middle bit at once until the left one revives again. EDIT: And hey, if you wish to increase Robos M.Def somehow, why not just take the Wall Ring together with the Dash Ring in one of the Black Box in Heckrans Cave. You will only have to run in and out (without fighting anything which costs the most time) and this will be about 1 min more in total with returning. The Wall Ring increases M.Def by 10 which is only 2 M.Def weaker than Flea Vest, and the Dash Ring increases the Speed by 3, maybe also a usefull item. And maybe taking the Safe Helm (no need for Shield-Items anymore) of the Forest Ruins is also a good choice to up physical defense by 1/3. This is on the way to Heckran Cave anyway. And also costs not more than 30 sec.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 4/20/2005 6:19 PM

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DeHackEd

Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Former player

Joined: 11/6/2004
Posts: 833

I glued your SMV files together into a single SMV (again). http://dehacked.2y.net/tilus-chronotriggerJ-wip5-glued.zip I checked it and it doesn't desync.

Posted: 4/20/2005 7:02 PM

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Tilus

Former player

Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177

I knew there was one choice I forgot XD Still, the Wall Ring suffers from the same downsides as picking up the Flea Vest - it takes away Robo's status immunity. (I wouldn't use the Dash Ring anyways - I've already got the Blue Rock on Magus and a Gold Stud on Lucca, and losing status immunity for a second character and +10 M.Def for +3 speed is not at all worth it.) The Safe Helm is not possible, since I already took the Swallow way back before travelling to 12000 BC the second time. Sure I didn't use it long, but it made Falcon Hit very, very powerful (and definitely saved more time than would ever be possible with the Safe Helm).

Posted: 4/20/2005 8:03 PM

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Saturn

Player (206)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

The problem with the imune status is easyly solved by equipping the Nova Armor (you can find it in a chest in the black omen in the room with the 2 Nu's) which protects the status and gives a very high physical defense. So you don't need the Amulet and can equip the Wall Ring instead. Then I would suggest to Charm the very useful Vigil Hat of the Mega-Mutant you fight in the omen first. This Helmet protects also the status so you could equip it to Lucca and you would have all 3 characters imune against bad status.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 10/7/2005 6:30 PM

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Saturn

Player (206)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

Any news on this run? Tilus was so close to the end at the most tricky and exciting part of the game, so I just wonder where he is gone. Anyway just want to note that marshmallow works on a speedrun for this game on SDA and do very well for console-conditions. The test run was completed in less than 7 hours (including beating Lavos of course) and now we discuss to find a even faster way. Here is the topic of this run: http://speeddemosarchive.com/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=consoles_older;action=display;num=1128221503;start=0 I hope this could inspire Tilus to finally complete this run...

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 10/7/2005 8:24 PM

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Tilus

Former player

Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177

I'm done with this game. I've tried many many times to motivate myself into completing it, or starting over, and each time I've failed. So, I'm going to let someone else handle it. I am open for questions concerning any aspect of the game's physics, luck manipulation, or anything of the other (very few) quirks the game offers. This game's a programming masterpiece, and I'm sure now more than ever it's probably the absolute worst game on the SNES to even try to attempt speedrunning. (And if you've wondered where I've gone, look at the Pokemon Red/Blue topic. I've completed a successful test run over there, and am midway through the final run.)

Posted: 10/7/2005 10:06 PM

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marshmallow

Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 18

Sub 7? I'm shooting for sub 6 for my final run...got around 6:15 on my test run.

David "marshmallow" Gibbons

Posted: 10/7/2005 10:11 PM

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Saturn

Player (206)

Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451

Thats really sad. But why starting over? You did it very well so far and your ingame-time is really good. You only have to prepare for lavos a bit and finally beat him. Haven't you tried one of the suggested ways to get usefull items like Moon or Nova Armor, buying or charming plenty of reviews, megaelixiers etc? I would suggest the following equippment: Magus: - Doom Sickle (Magus' strongest weapon) - Gloom Helm (best physical defense + fully protects status) - Dark Mail (weak but 5 more M.Def.) or Gloom Cape (best physical Defense) - Blue Rock (Omega Flare) Robo: - at least Kaiser Arm - Vigil Hat (charm from Mega Mutant in Omen-entrance - it fully protects status) - Moon Armor (best phys. defense + M.Def +10!) - Wall Ring (again +10 M.Def) Lucca: - Best Weapon you have (doesn't matter much) - best helm you have - Zodiac Cape (M.Def +10) - Amulet (fully protects status) Using this equippment all 3 characters will have status protection and very hight M.Def bonuses. No chaos or any other abnormality can harm you now. Charm at least 20 MegaElixiers (of each Ruminator (4 per battle) in Omen and use Omega Flare as often as possible. You really shouldn't have much trouble with the help of tools. PS: Already noticed the Pockemon Topic, but don't know the game at all. If I were you I would definitely hold on Chrono Trigger, you spended so much time on this run and a complete TAS for this beautiful game would be more than great. There's only the final battle left after all, but of course its your decision. EDIT: Yeah, even sub 6 then. I just want to make clear, if marsh can do that on a console then you can also do it in a TAS. You both have almost same conditions at this stage.

See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun

Posted: 10/30/2005 1:58 PM

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