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Posted: 3/24/2005 12:45 PM
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Don't worry Tilus, I buy this formula in Nobilia! It costs me 150 Jewels though but its much faster than running down and cutting the bush to get it from Strongheart. Nitsuja is right I have to get every possible formula but will equip only the formulas I will use in the game so I don't have to unequip the useless ones later and can save time this way. Nitsuja can you please reply me on my question I asked you yesterday? "Nitsuja, do you mean if I record it on Volume Envelope Height Reading it will desync in random places after I playback it? If that is so, then it means you can't record this game with this setting for a correct playback at all, or how should I understand that?" PS: I can't get the Cure Formula if I return to Strongheart later since he gives me another one then (Miracle Cure).
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Posted: 3/24/2005 1:16 PM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1311)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
It's been my experience that Volume Envelope Height Reading causes random desyncs - only in some games, but it seems that this is very likely one of those games because the setting changed the timing on playback, and timing changes from having the setting on tend to be sort of random. But if you want to know the real answer to your question, you'll just have to try it out; try making a sample movie with VEHR on, something less than 10 minutes long that isn't perfect at all would work fine, then you could play it back once at normal speed and once at fast-forward to see if it still works. (Note that if a "Fake Volume Envelope Height Reading Off" workaround is ever made, you won't need to start over to get the better sound, I haven't tried anything with it yet though.)
Posted: 3/26/2005 6:20 PM
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Damn, the very important glitch I wanna use for a 1/2 part of the whole game will lose his power at the latest before Mungola (the Puppet Show Boss in Gothica - 3rd world) so I will not be able to kill this boss, my foreward planning and calculation proved it. Now I have to think of another way as I planned before and maybe use another glitch I don't wanted to use before since this could cause problems later. Lets see what I can do here.
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Posted: 3/28/2005 4:27 AM
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Remember I told that the 10 min (after 99 rice/spice secret) waiting time till the big meeting in Nobilia will be extremely close to get everything? Well I had only 1 sec left after I finnished everything (you read it right). One little movement mistake in this 10 min or one false buying would make me definitely not to be able to do it in 10 min. Now I got really everything of Nobilia and don't have to buy anything in Antiqua anymore! Used the important glitch and defeated "Vigor the Indestructable" in a extremely hard-fighted and long battle :-) Movie updated to WIP5! www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/snes9xmovies.htm This is (and will be) the by far longest part of the game since I had to wait 15 min if I want or not till I can fight Vigor. Because of this the recording movie lenght is 48 min now (22 min longer than WIP 4)
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Posted: 3/28/2005 4:47 AM
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Mlandry
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 325
nice , i see your run is coming along well =D
Posted: 3/28/2005 3:27 PM
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Sastopher
Joined: 3/15/2005
Posts: 30
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
I watched the new segment last night and was highly impressed. This is one of my most eagerly awaited games to see timeattacked, and you're doing a terrific job. I think I need to go read up on some bugs though to understand exactly what you are doing. I assume waiting outside the market somehow gets you the 99 spice/rice, and running out half-way through and dying glitches the atlas spell to stick around longer. That's it more or less, right?
I ought not to tie the knot too taught.
Posted: 3/28/2005 6:16 PM
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Thank you Sastopher. Yes the waiting outside is for 99 rice/spice as you can see and read in the movie. The dying was to cancell the atlas effect and and after that to make the attack power negative that means the number increases to 65000+ attack power (instead of 40). This effect holds enternal until I reach a level which ups my attack power so much that I get a positive attack value again. Thats why I had to level up the Atlas Formula to level 1 for now because level 0 is not enough to cause the number to get negative since its to weak on this level. The problem is I have to keep my level as small as possible to hold my attack-value negative and even if I don't kill any enemies but only the bosses It will not be enough so I have to level up this formula to level 2 later before I leave Antiqa anyway. Then I hope it should be enough for the rest of the game. Now I also have to decide: Should I use the Diamond Eyes glitch or not? This way I could keep the Diamond Eyes forever but it could cause problems later to use the call beads glitch to get 99 call beads which is much more important, so I have to test foreward if I still can get 99 call beads later if I wanna use the diamond eyes glitch. Does anybody knows more about this? It could save me alot of time and help me very much in my further analyzes.
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Posted: 3/28/2005 6:23 PM
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Mlandry
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 325
heh im pretty sure your the one who knows the most about this game here or anywhere for that matter
Posted: 3/28/2005 6:30 PM
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
I know very much about this game that's right, I just wonder if there are other experts to share information to each other.
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Posted: 3/29/2005 7:01 PM
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
By the way: I just got an idea that could let me skip the leveling up of the atlas formula to level 2 as I mentioned before and still let me keep the big power to the end. This could save about 3-5 minutes and 3000 jewels but the downside is I'm not sure if it will really work, chances are about 50%. I will test it right now. EDIT: Nope, no way. My idea don't work, I have to level atlas up to level 2 in any case, and sacrificing 3 min + 3000 jewels is definitely woth it since I can save hours on this way later, thats for sure.
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Posted: 4/1/2005 1:21 PM
(Edited: 4/2/2005 9:56 AM)
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Aprils fool joke removed!
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Posted: 4/1/2005 2:54 PM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1311)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
I knew I would be, but I'm really confused as to what's going on (in what's actually in the movie). Was it luck manipulation to see the guy in the desert? How did you warp to the town like that? What did the repeated casts of atlas do exactly and what was the game-over for?
Posted: 4/1/2005 3:27 PM
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
About Atlas (leveling up, dying etc) I explained everything exactly at this post The guy in the Dessert: No it wasn't luck manipulation. The guy is everytime in the same place, you only have to find the right oasis thats all. He gives me the 3rd strongest formula of the game "Sting" which is a must to equip/use in a normal walkthrough since it needs only cheap ingredients but in this run its not worth because the duration of it is a bit long. The warp is nothing else than a dessert glitch, since the complete dessert is existing of different rooms which are connected to each other, and I just used the point where one room connects to another and only on this point the next room is wrong connected thats why I get warped to the wrong room near the entrance. The programmers missed this glitch to remove, I guess.
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Posted: 4/1/2005 6:23 PM
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Fabianx
Joined: 12/17/2004
Posts: 99
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany
Saturn wrote:
Hi guys, I have awesome news! [...]
This is always a "dangerous" statement on April Fools day, but I believe you ;-) ... cu Fabian
Posted: 4/2/2005 9:54 AM
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
You're right Fabian, it was only a joke, there is no such warp to the final boss of the great pyramid and there is no WIP 6 already, I didn't even completed Hall of Collosia. I just wanted to see if someone gets fooled about this, and I guess nitsuja was the one. You have seen WIP 5 that I already posted some time ago. I'm sorry :-)
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Posted: 4/3/2005 1:23 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1311)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
Actually no, I talked only about the stuff in your WIP 5, not the stuff I figured was a joke about "WIP 6". I didn't know you had already posted WIP 5 earlier, so I noticed it from your april fool's post and commented on it then.
Posted: 4/3/2005 8:02 AM
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Oh, alright! It is logical that a intelligent programmer like you should see that. That's why I wondered before...
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Posted: 4/3/2005 8:52 PM
(Edited: 4/4/2005 12:59 PM)
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Completed Hall of Collosia and defeated Megataur! This part was really hard to do because there were many enemies in tight rooms so it was hard to pass them without getting attacked, mostly the "Dancin' Fools". Every movement is optimized as good as I could. I skipped the other 2 secret rooms because it would take me to much time and even 3 Honeys in one pot are not worth the time I think. Movie updated to WIP6! www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/snes9xmovies.htm The recording time is less than 56 min now, only 8 minutes longer than WIP 5! Don't worry, it's not a joke anymore. PS: Rest in Peace Pope John Paul II :'-(
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Posted: 4/3/2005 10:43 PM
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Spoony_Bard
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
It's looking great, I especially like how the Atlas glitch allows you to make quick work of the bosses. I have on question though, the rock that falls after Tiny throws it, was that necessary? You don't seem to pick up the items that are made accessable, unless you plan on doing that later? I don't think it was necessary to have Tiny throw the rock, and some time is spent watching it fall that could be avoided if you don't intend on getting those items.
Posted: 4/4/2005 12:52 PM
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Thats a good question. I will take the items I made accessable by the rock later, since there are 200 jewels and a important call bead I will need in any case against bosses I can't reach with the weapons to kill (like the Verminator). As you said the only time I sacrificed is waiting the rock to fall (not throwing it away since it was in the waiting time of 15 min) and this is about 10 sec, but I guess it will be worth in the later battles and in my opinion it is also a part of the 100% run which have to be done, like geting all items.
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Posted: 4/4/2005 6:33 PM
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Spoony_Bard
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
Saturn wrote:
I skipped the other 2 secret rooms because it would take me to much time and even 3 Honeys in one pot are not worth the time I think.
Saturn wrote:
but I guess it will be worth in the later battles and in my opinion it is also a part of the 100% run which have to be done, like geting all items.
So which is it you're striving to do, specifically? Get 100% of the items, or only those which help you save time? The Alchemy formulas I can see you wanting to get all of, and stopping to pick up ingredients on the ground only takes a moment. If getting these items is part of a goal to get 100% of all the items, then shouldn't you go back and get those items you skipped before? Of course, if you're not doing that, and you wind up getting that Call Bead later and using it during a boss fight or something then you can disregard what I'm pointing out ^^ I don't mean to cause a hassle, I'm just trying to figure out your consistancy in a 100% run and what you plan on doing.
Posted: 4/4/2005 9:15 PM
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Spoony_Bard wrote:
So which is it you're striving to do, specifically? Get 100% of the items, or only those which help you save time? The Alchemy formulas I can see you wanting to get all of, and stopping to pick up ingredients on the ground only takes a moment. If getting these items is part of a goal to get 100% of all the items, then shouldn't you go back and get those items you skipped before?
With a part of 100% run I meant not just the items I can get after the rock falls, but generaly this small sidequest to make a path in the hole. Lets see it like that: 100% is first priority but If I can get a item faster (even if I have to pay for it) then I will skip the one I can find for free IF I need obviosly more time for it to get. I simply buy the honey if I need to later. About the call beads I make a exception if they are not to far away (max 10-20 sec delay) because they are unavoidable in later boss fights as I said before. I will also pick only ingredients up from the ground if they are in my way and only if I feel that I could need them later. I mentioned before that I will take the call bead and 200 jewels later on the way to Nobilia 2nd time to fight Aegis (the sacred dog statue). PS: I'm in the great Pyramid now, and this flying Bone Buzzards make me really a hard time, I tried everything but in some places I can't avoid a attack of them so I have to manipulate luck that the boy will evade the attack which is about 1 sec delay :-(
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Posted: 4/4/2005 9:21 PM
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Spoony_Bard
Former player
Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377
Alright, I get it now, I think. As for the Buzzards, a 1-second delay isn't so bad if it means, you know, not dying. For later on, I seem to remember a glitch that lets you skip the Verminator. I don't know how useful that would actually be, since I don't remember any other ways it would affect the gameplay. Is that worth looking into, you think, or will you fight him anyway? With the Atlas glitch it probably won't matter a whole lot.
Posted: 4/4/2005 9:37 PM
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
I know the glitch but the problem is you never can get back to Ebon Keep again because you will be trapped in the boxes of the Verminator, and for a 100% run I have to kill all possible bosses too (forgot to say before). The Atlas power won't help me very much since I can't reach this boss with my weapons and exactly here I will need my call beads. In my opinion it's the most dangerous boss in this run because he will be able to finnish me in one single attack (on my level I will have against him he will do more than 200HP damage to me - more than I have at this moment so the goal is to kill him even before he casts his first attack-formula on me, maybe I even have to use a Heal in the right moment to block his formula (like I did against Magmar to block the Heat Wave). In my eyes 1 sec is a lot if you see at the frame number and if you always think of the word "timeattack". Of course I will not dying but this thing annoys me a bit, I finnish for today, lets see what I can do tomorrow.
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Posted: 4/6/2005 5:53 PM
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
Damn it, I tested foreward to get 99 call beads with the Diamond Eyes glitch and as I feared before it doesn't work. I tried every variation I could think of to affect the 99 call beads glitch but no luck. I have to get this 99 call beads at all costs and won't record further until I make 100% sure that it will work. As far as I know the 99 call bead glitch variates on what items I take from pots or what bosses I killed before so may be I just have to fight this 2 rogues and give away the diamond eyes for it to work. To keep both is impossible at the moment, I will test more in the next days. This is just the most feared thing of me since even I can't control the 99 call beads glitch to work or not, another proof that Secret of Evermore is the most unexplored and complicated game even after 10 years.
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