If the RTS that use VC are so popular and all the runners use that, why shouldn't TAS be able to as well.
You can. Just get the .wad for OoT, and run it in dolphin.
but the physical hardware does not.
Yes it does, it's just not realistic to do it with any consistency. Much like pressing A 30 times per second.
Why does it have to be run on Dolphin, why can't it use a different VC emulator?
Because there are no other emulators capable of running wii's VC games. If you wanted to create a new one that is capable of playing and tasing them, then i'd imagine that would be ok.
But of course, you don't actually want to to tas a VC game. You want to tas to the n64 game inside. You're only calling it a VC game because you want to confuse the issue, and make it seem like you're not wanting to abuse an obvious emulation glitch in mupe. Unfortunately, when you strip away the emulator from the rom, it becomes a different game. It doesn't just play on a different console, but it behaves differently as well. Nintendo's emulator is part of the game.
Or you could do the run on Master Quest. There's no version of that where the Deku Stick on B doesn't work.
The idea is good, but the route doesn't work on master quest because you can't get access to the hover boots without song of time and the bow/slingshot.
The hover boots are requiered to clip past the closed door of time as adult link, so without them we won't be able to do Bottle Adventure by getting child again.
yeah, I know. this would still cost quite some time. you also lose quite some time in forest temple.
The only place where Master Quest would be faster is dodongo's cavern, but that's all.
Only possible solution to this is beating deku tree as child link without stepping in the blue warp, but the master quest version has even more disadvantages like no bombchus from bottom of the well, which simply make the run way too slow compared to the traditional RBA route.
Master Quest? I thought we all unspokenly agreed to pretend that didn't exist...
So the problem is we just need a better emulator that can run VC roms
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I thought pulling out the stick on B on the GC version / Master Quest still froze the game if it was done on Mupen. I'm pretty sure it does.
By the way, in case anyone hasn't checked the bench yet, my new MST run is submitted at the site now: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12482
Awesome run, Swordless.
One question. What was the reason for using that last bombchu in Ganon's Castle the way you did? Could it have been used during the Ganon fight to arrive at the Master Sword more quickly? I assume you thought of that, but I just wondered.
quoting since my legitimate question got buried in this bullshit argument
You can't tell if he modded his controller from that.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I'm saying you can't tell anything from that video, it proves nothing.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
You can't tell if he modded his controller from that.
What matters does it do if he modded the controller? All you have to do is to remove the left and right button and replace it with something that allows them to be pushed at the same time. if the console doesn't crash from it, it should still be a legit input for the console.
It proves it's possible unless he cheated. I'm asking if you think that's the case.
I think it's possible he cheated, as he clearly does also. It doesn't really prove it can be done with original, just opened from the box, controller.
Personally, i don't think that matters. Even if it can only be done with a modified and/or broken controller, it's still possible.
When you start run things with a dictatorship and ultimate everything is based of the viewpoints and values of that one individual, ban major contributors and rule against what valuable, well respected community members want, you end up losing what was once so great. You get a shit-storm mess like lybia, people defect and make their own websites, the community gets split-up, grudges are held, and ultimately the community and the viewers suffer.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Nevertheless, the single entity which holds the ultimate power here has said he think this glitch should not be allowed no matter what emulator you use, VC or GCN. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only that thinks that's a ridiculous extremist viewpoint.
Knock off the melodramatic crap. First off, I said should be banned, not is. I was stating my personal opinion in the thread, not making a judgment from atop mount Olympus. You overestimate my power on this site. Secondly, it is an absurd and insulting comparison to a disagreement over techniques in a TAS to people who fought and died under a cruel dictator. No ones life is at stake here. No actual site-policy decision has been made, so knock off the exaggeration.
Scepheo wrote:
If people actually think that the N64 crashing with Stick on B is a glitch that needs fixing, then I guess we need to fix OoT too before there's any point in TASing it.
Oh hey, the N64 behaves in a faulty way (crashing with stick on B) due to a programmer oversight, we should fix this because we don't like it!
But hey, OoT behaves in a faulty way (BA being one of many examples) due to a programmer oversight, but we shouldn't fix it because that's just the way the game is!
I do hope I'm not the only one finding this a horribly arbitrary point of view. And yes, you might be able to use Stick on B on GameCube and Wii, but unless you're TASing those (hint: you're not, or you're in the wrong forum) and not the N64, you should stick to what the N64 can do.
Thank you, this a perspective that I hadn't thought of.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
You can't tell if he modded his controller from that.
Then how would you prove it? SkamastaG created that video to prove a point... even andrewg has done L+R on console... ask him. Are you saying he's a cheater too? Funny, how the most prolific mario speedrunner is also a cheat, then.
Edit: This video has spawned numerous debates on whether l+r should be allowed in non-tas speedruns. Note, I am not advocating that it should be allowed (although I think it should), but rather that it's merely possible for it to be done on console with unmodified hardware. AndrewG can back me up on that point.
For the sake of argument (lol spider waffle), even if andrewg and skamastag indeed are huge cheaters (lol spider waffle) and use modified controllers to deceive the speedrunning community (lol spider waffle), that video still shows that l+r certainly is possible on a console without it crashing the game or whatever, which would make it different to whatever is being discussed in here.
Edit: Unless we're bringing the possibility of a modded SNES console or a modded SMW game into the picture, in which case I guess you win :(
Joined: 2/28/2012
Posts: 160
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Spider-Waffle, you seem like someone who is interesting and fairly unique (I just think you are a bit different than most people), but what exactly do you intend to prove by suggesting the controller is modified? The game clearly accepts the inputs and that's what it was posted for.
I know the game and the console sans-controllers accepts the inputs, my point was that hardware does not allow it. Yes, It might be possible with enough force to bend certain controllers without breaking them. I know the NES can be done. I didn't think the SNES could be without breaking the D-pad, His D-pad I'm guessing is warped now after many attempts so it can be done.
It's still somewhat of a hairy area whether the hardware allows up+down, I suppose NES and SNES might, not sure about the others though.
I guess you guys were just concerned with weather something can be done on the console with free range of input device, I had assumed you meant the physical hardware could do it also.
So I'm guessing the mission statement of TASvideos has the clause "what is possible on actual console without regard to input device" or "free range of input device" which is fine and I don't really care one way or the other, I just want to make sure whatever rule were jumping through hoops to uphold isn't being broken left and right on other games/emulators.
So to try so solve the problem, could we just make a mod for mupen so it can run slightly modded N64 roms that the VC runs, and the make it a VC emulator? It's kind of silly to go this trouble of semantics, but I just it's important to some people. Not sure what those people's opinions relevant contributions are... (yes I think in the grand scheme what ultimately serves the community and the viewers best is recognizing what ultimately matters is the opinions of the relevant contributors, if the contributors get the shaft, everyone gets shafted)
What exactly is the difference between the N64 rom and the type of rom a VC runs?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
What exactly is the difference between the N64 rom and the type of rom a VC runs?
The OoT VC ROM is N64 1.2 (the exact same ROM), run in a custom packaged emulator that does some texture replacements on the fly iirc. It's not the ROM that's different for stick on B, it's the emulator.
It proves it's possible unless he cheated. I'm asking if you think that's the case.
I think it's very possible that he took some screws out and filed down the nub on the D-pad, this takes 5 minutes and was a very common mod among the SNES mario kart community. Also, I'm willing to wager that wasn't his first time attempting this on that controller, so through cyclic fatigue the plastic in D-pad could be pushed beyond it's elastic region and into plastic deformation, ending up with a warped D-pad that's very possible to press left+right.
Even if you get the benefit of the doubt for SNES, there's still plenty more consoles to go which TASvideos has published up+down for.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
What exactly is the difference between the N64 rom and the type of rom a VC runs?
The OoT VC ROM is N64 1.2 (the exact same ROM), run in a custom packaged emulator that does some texture replacements on the fly iirc. It's not the ROM that's different for stick on B, it's the emulator.
So what's the difference between a emulator named dolphin running "N64 1.2" and an emulator name mupen running "N64 1.2"? Could we just make a copy of mupen and rename it "dolphinv2" a VC emulator that only works on N64 VC roms?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
