If you cannot play it directly, then it's obviously not an n64 game. If it's not an n64 game, then it obviously isn't the same game.
Removing data from a rom dump and pretending it is the same game is absurd.
Joined: 2/28/2012
Posts: 159
Location: Philadelphia
I think we've gotten a little far away from the original point. Using Dolphin is rather irrelevant and unlikely until we agree what graphic plugin could be used in Mupen:
The Jabo video plugin crashes when you try to use adult deku stick on B.
Other video plugins don't crash when you use adult stick on B.
Because none of the video plugins are official by any means, there's no clear indication of which plugin should be used for the TAS. However, I think it's most logical (and ethical) to use the plugin that most accurately emulates the original hardware (which would be the Jabo plugin, which crashes).
Obviously the most accurate one should always be used. As far as i know, that would be jabo. If another was more accurate overall, but still allowed B stick to be used without crashing, then it could be used instead, but actually using the B stick would still not be allowed.
Mupen is not a "VC emulator", stop saying that. Usually it's a good idea to stop trying to trick people with clever wordsmithing when people have already called your bullshit.
A VC emulator is specifically not what you want. A VC emulator would be running an n64 emulator inside a wii emulator. Remember? Isn't that what you wanted to avoid doing?
Okay, So I'll rename A windows emulator Wiiemu2000, and Mupen to VC2000, and then run VC2000 inside of Wiiemu2000. So I have a Wii emulator emulating VC emulating N64, which would just as accurate as dolphin, the same situation with the real Wii, and not doing any glitches that the Wii doesn't do. Seems like a winner to me, that's what you want right?
I'll start the home page for Wiiemu2000, a Wii emulator that properly emulates the VC, fully compatible with VC2000, and VC2000, a VC emulator that properly emulates the N64 being emulated by VC just as accurately as dolphin.
SUP DAWG, I HEARD YOU LIKE EMULATORS....
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =)
(ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ
I'll start the home page for Wiiemu2000, a Wii emulator that properly emulates the VC, fully compatible with VC2000, and VC2000, a VC emulator that properly emulates the N64 being emulated by VC just as accurately as dolphin.
If it properly emulates it, then sure, why not?
But it's not going to.
So what's constitutes a proper emulation? Because you could say the same about Dolphin. It seems very subjective and arbitrary.
It has to at least try to emulate it, instead of just emulating something completely different instead.
How do you decide if "tries" to emulate it? That seems very subjective and arbitrary. So basically this comes down to what the emulators "Try" to emulate? Give me a break, so we're going to throw fit and get a values up in a bunch over what we think a an emulator tries to emulate, but not what it actually does?
How about this, whoever makes the run does w/e tf they want. Then a niche group consisting of rog, Adle, and a few others like can go to town a grand hearing on emulators are "trying" to do. That's ultimately what's going to happen. We wouldn't do something hardware couldn't because of what we thought emulators were trying to do would we, no, that would be worse than discouraging people from ever making any runs in the first place...
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
What emulators 'try' to do is self-evident. They emulate consoles. At their basest value, TASes are meant to be reproductions of what would happen if a certain sequence of commands was entered into a console.
Mupen 'tries' to emulate a Nintendo 64. It does not, in any way shape or form, try to emulate a Gamecube, a Wii, the virtual console emulator or anything other than a Nintendo 64. There is nothing subjective or arbitrary about that. It's a Nintendo 64 emulator. Trying to debate the semantics surrounding this is pointless. >_>
What emulators 'try' to do is self-evident. They emulate consoles. At their basest value, TASes are meant to be reproductions of what would happen if a certain sequence of commands was entered into a console.
Mupen 'tries' to emulate a Nintendo 64. It does not, in any way shape or form, try to emulate a Gamecube, a Wii, the virtual console emulator or anything other than a Nintendo 64. There is nothing subjective or arbitrary about that. It's a Nintendo 64 emulator. Trying to debate the semantics surrounding this is pointless. >_>
So if someone "Tried" to make a VC GC emulator and happened to write the exact same code as mupen, called it VC2000 and everything we started using that here, then that'd be okay? So it doesn't matter at all what the emulator actually do, only what it was trying to do?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
How does the Ganonless route look as of now? As I understand it so far it is still RBA and light arrow cutscene, but what is different from the old RBA-ganonkill route?
(Couldn't post in the original thread because it was locked, if any admin sees this and are able to edit this post into the original thread, please do so)
here's the current WR speedrun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5GvPPBGKFw
obviously a TAS would use TAS movement techniques. probably use tektite hovering instead of using lon lon ranch. would probably RBA cojiro and manipulate a ton of bomb drops before DC so they could hover to the head instead of going through the dungeon.
here's the current WR speedrun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5GvPPBGKFw
obviously a TAS would use TAS movement techniques. probably use tektite hovering instead of using lon lon ranch. would probably RBA cojiro and manipulate a ton of bomb drops before DC so they could hover to the head instead of going through the dungeon.
How many bomb drops would you need? That seems like a plausible RTS strat even, since it takes 2:40 to go through and get bomb bag and light eyes. If you could get up with 10 or less bombs that'd have to be faster than 2:40. You could also use a bomb flower too. And maybe do some SSs to get to DC.
We still need to figure out how much tektite would save if any. I think the RTS is almost to the point where it should go for tektite if it wants to go faster.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
dude, when you are making these statements as if they are facts please include some sort of explanation. Specially when you are making a statement against a previous post.
It is extremely hard in OoT to reach optimal height with bomb hovers. The bomb physics just don't lend themselfs for it.
Plus to get on the skull you'd need to hover quite a lot, since it's high.
Plus that would mean getting 6 more bomb drops from luck. 2 to get up there, plus 4 you lose by not getting the bomb bag.
In conclusion:
Slowking wrote:
Yeah, it should be pretty obvious to anyone who has ever tried hovering in oot why it wouldn't be done if at all possible to avoid it. It's not technically impossible, but it's not realistic either.
I wouldn't right it off too fast without some calculations and seeing how many bombs it usually takes. I know people thought I was insane when I said bomb hovering 15+ times to get into spirit would be faster than spending 5 minutes on bean, and they said the same reasoning, but now that's standard as people wised up and actually tested it. It really should at least be testing and some numbers crunched, takes like 5 minutes.
You wouldn't need to replace all the 20 you get because you could do less super slides, a lot of them only save 4-10s.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
spider-waffle, cool down.
As I said already all the posts above were about RTS, about a REAL TIME SPEEDRUN. A Real Time Speedrun is no TASm it is played on console.
In my post I also said, that in a TAS we would of course hover into the head. We can manipulate as many bombs as we want and bomb hovering up would take roughly 24 seconds, which is really fast ;)
And the goal of the new TAS is SUB 40.
I guess the main problem for RTS is getting the bomb drops, you'd need 2 before DC, which very rare giving you only bushes in KV and some rocks, not sure if you can get a drop from the enemies in DC though?
Saying it takes too long to wait on bombs and you can't get max height is very extraneous unless you provide the numbers and probabilities and have actually done some testing.
And like I said, you don't necessarily need 20 extra bombs after lighting eyes, if it saves 1:00, then you could skip mostly all of the SS/HISS/pressure jumps, which would make the run easier in a way.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
