Post by Jigwally

Posted: 5/1/2006 10:23 AM

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MattyXB

Player (24)

Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany

Yes, this is the problem. The movies has then different text length and then desync. My textscrolling is Frame-perfected. So I scroll as fast as possible through the text. When the french text is smaller or longer it will not scroll and desync. French text? Not know, that this old game were released in other languages, near no old GameBoy game released in german. I know only Mystic Quest (Final Fantasy Adventure), which is released in different languages. Is this an official translation? Or maybe selfmade from Fans? This site use only official ROM and no Fan-Translations. Only when the game is release with french text then its maybe ok. But most its better to use english versions. Try to find the english (U) Version. Most movies from this site use (U) versions, because most people can read english and understand it. I don't understand french and can't read it. But when I find a french ROM I will try your movie again.

Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty

Posted: 5/1/2006 10:30 AM

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zoddtheimmortal

Joined: 3/4/2006
Posts: 30
Location: France

No there wasnt a french version of the game. They (i think fans) only made a rom with the french texts , so yes i think it's not allowed to use it here. Because i knew maybe the length of the texts would be different in english than in french. Anyway the french translation is horrible , i prefer the original texts :P I have found a ROM with UE mark, the same as in your file, I think it'll be ok.

Posted: 5/1/2006 11:00 AM

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zoddtheimmortal

Joined: 3/4/2006
Posts: 30
Location: France

I have sent you a private message to give you the link of the "french" rom i put on my server. I have other games for TAS run i want to try too, hehe i think maybe this will be a TASrunning summer. Anyway dont put this try at gargoyles quest as my first TAS run cos the ROM wasnt the good one and i also put only one eveningon it , only to see how to use the tools. I will make my first real TAS run soon ;) maybe another game that is even shorter before doing the gargoyle's quest 'one.

Posted: 5/1/2006 11:09 AM

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MattyXB

Player (24)

Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany

Found a French ROM already somewhere else. Watched your movie now. Movements not Frame perfected now, but for a test run not bad at all. You hang sometimes to long at the walls. Missing shots are bad too. Looks not good and perfect when you just shot and hit nothing. Only after Boss fights it looks nice that the shot is still inside you. 1 Stage You jump from the right to the left wall in the first Stage, this cost some time. But I do the same error in my puplished version. You can jump over the holes at one site. 1. Boss is much better the mine. Bridge You can jump earlier, then you fall down faster and most not wait till you can move to the right. But I do the same error. 2. Stage You climp up the one wall only at the left site. Better then me, I climp left right and lose some Frames. 2. Boss is not so good. You lose much time. You can defeat all eyes with always one fly. My 2. Boss fight is much better. After finish the Stage you walk over the tower. Wow, not know, that this is possible. This will save the one fight against the ghoul. Or it maybe not work in the (U) version. Must try it when I later work on this run again. Great to see some new tricks for my next try, which I can maybe use. After the bridge One random fight, bad luck manipulation. There is no need for random fights. Just wait 1 Frame and you will not fight on the map. But its only a test run, so no problem. But in a TAS you must avoid all random fights. I know its possible. You get the falcon wings earlier. Save time. I first speak with the ghoul at the bridge, so he go away and I save one fight. But the way is to long. Must test later which way is faster. For my first version I have think show a nice trick in the game. Change the weapon in the fight against the ghoul at the long bridge. I think its faster. At the bridge you fall to much down at the first big hole. Stop and restart flying, then you lose not so much high. 3. Boss looks near like mine. Not sure which one is faster. But you can stand much near him and shot faster. 4. Boss is slower. I get hit and stand inside from him. So I can defeat him as fast as possible. In the temple where you use the candle. The fight after the story takes to long. Just jump over the 2 enemies and defeat them faster from behind. In the last Stage you use a shortcut, which I have not know. Save some Frames again I think. I go another way which is a bit longer. All together good movie for first try. You must maybe learn how you work with FrameAdvance. It will takes much longer, but the movements will look much better and perfect. Then you can choose every Frame which button you want to press.

Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty

Posted: 5/1/2006 11:38 AM

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zoddtheimmortal

Joined: 3/4/2006
Posts: 30
Location: France

You hang sometimes to long at the walls. Yea i have a problem with my keys that dont respond quickly, the game is lagging much you know, was a strong game for game boy at the time maybe advance frame or wise tools will help for these parts Missing shots are bad too. yea i know only i didnt mind Only after Boss fights it looks nice that the shot is still inside you. i dont understand what you mean You can jump over the holes at one site. ok it was a long time i havent played the game, i didnt remember, actually i should have played the game as normal before doing the trials :) 1. Boss is much better the mine. I use autofire , did you use it , is it allowed? (but i didnt use autofire for the rest of the game haha, just testing I say? ^^) You can jump earlier, then you fall down faster and most not wait till you can move to the right. yea i figured too that the movements are much more important than we first think in this game, maybe advance frame will be better , i must train (at least use it for the jumps on the walls) 2. You can defeat all eyes with always one fly. yea i didnt use autofire, or didnt try to see if i could kill them in one fly Just wait 1 Frame and you will not fight on the map. ooh i didnt know that. thanks for the advice :) You get the falcon wings earlier. Change the weapon in the fight against the ghoul at the long bridge. i think its faster, yea i forgot to try the new weapon :X At the bridge you fall to much down at the first big hole. yea most of the run was almost one try actually, i knew it was a test run and didnt want to put too much efforts before seeing first what it is all about ;) 3. But you can stand much near him and shot faster.[/i] no autofire ; one try ... ^^ 4. I get hit and stand inside from him. yea but i thought no damage was better , i dunno what the TASers prefer , hey all do you prefer damage/fastest or no damage/fastest?^^ Just jump over the 2 enemies and defeat them faster from behind. yea i tried one or two time but couldnt kill them, maybe frame advance will help or i do more tries ... In the last Stage you use a shortcut which one? o_O if I use damage run , maybe i sure can add a lot of shortcuts, but it doesnt look as good for me than without damage :/ thanks for the comments its more interesting when you can speak with or do a TAS against another player^^

Posted: 5/1/2006 12:22 PM

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MattyXB

Player (24)

Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany

Only after Boss fights it looks nice that the shot is still inside you. i dont understand what you mean I mean through the autofire you still shot one time as the Boss is already defeated. When now a cutsequens will play you shot hang in the air. Sometimes it looks nice. 1. Boss is much better the mine. I use autofire , did you use it , is it allowed? autofire is ok. But I stand so far away from the first Boss. You can only shot again when your first shot is gone. So it takes much longer when you stand far away. 2. You can defeat all eyes with always one fly. yea i didnt use autofire, or didnt try to see if i could kill them in one fly Not the autofire is the problem. You are to far away like I by the first Boss. You can shot faster when you fly to the eyes always. 4. I get hit and stand inside from him. yea but i thought no damage was better , i dunno what the TASers prefer , hey all do you prefer damage/fastest or no damage/fastest?^^ By some games no damage is better or looks better. After I start this TAS I just try and see, that its better with damage. But most I like no damage runs much more. In the last Stage you use a shortcut which one? o_O if I use damage run , maybe i sure can add a lot of shortcuts, but it doesnt look as good for me than without damage :/ Its hard to say, have not the time or Frame anymore. You jump one time at the spiked wall with your shot to the left and jump then higher to the next platform. I go around and jump onto the platform from the right side. And much more shortcuts with damage are most not possible. I end many Stages with only one heart. So next hit will kill me. its more interesting when you can speak with or do a TAS against another player^^ Yes, everyone can learn from each other. You found some tricks which I have not know. I will try to use them next time when I will make a faster one. But as I say it will takes long. I work not so long on TAS and make them slower then most other Players here. It will be to boring for me to work so long on one TAS, so I need other things which I do often.

Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty

Posted: 5/1/2006 12:45 PM

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zoddtheimmortal

Joined: 3/4/2006
Posts: 30
Location: France

i ve just seen your run its already a very good one (of course if it has been published ^^) it says all yea i saw that we could fire again when the previous shot disappear your run teaches a lot of things , but of course its not perfect , i know it could be boring to redo it some damage are nice , it makes you get nice shortcut damage makes you get back your flying power its also good ,doing left right seems also useful for deep fallings can we hold both left right at the same time with vba , was it what you used?.. yea i figured the shortcut in last stage , i dunno why you didnt use it, it isnt hard to find but yea your run was already very good and took a lot of time to do , its hard to think of all the things to do and not forget anything :p anyway the moves , jumps and flies are impresive in your run , i dunno if i must try to improve it , maybe i should try another game which doesnt have published tas yet , should be wiser

Posted: 5/1/2006 7:29 PM

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MattyXB

Player (24)

Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany

zoddtheimmortal wrote:

,doing left right seems also useful for deep fallings can we hold both left right at the same time with vba , was it what you used?..

I have not use this glitch left/right in the puplished TAS. Main reason I have not know it at this time. You can do it with the VBA Emulator, but you must first activate it in the menu. Left Right allowed or similar must checked. In this topic is a Test WIP from the left/right glitch TAS which I started. This looks totaly different, because I slide through walls with this glitch. In the puplished TAS I just press 1 Frame left, the next Frame right and again and again. So it looks maybe sometimes I pressed them together. Was only for show, no effect and is not faster I think. But when you press them together, you will walk to the right and can walk and slide fast through walls. I think this will be another category. More a glitch TAS. The puplished one is a glitchless TAS, which looks much better I think for this game. You see all Stages full which is first better to see the full game.

Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty

Posted: 9/21/2011 1:13 AM

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Sonikkustar

Skilled player (1309)

Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.

Well. Sorry for the huge bump, but I did a try at the glitched category. Test

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Posted: 9/21/2011 9:05 PM

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NitroGenesis

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Editor, Experienced player (551)

Joined: 12/24/2009
Posts: 1873

Sonikkustar wrote:

Well. Sorry for the huge bump, but I did a try at the glitched category. Test

The glitched category is very boring. Try to improve the regular run, it is very beatable.

YoungJ1997lol wrote:

Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.

Posted: 9/21/2011 9:18 PM

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jlun2

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Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4952
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"

NitroGenesis wrote:

Sonikkustar wrote:
Well. Sorry for the huge bump, but I did a try at the glitched category. Test
The glitched category is very boring. Try to improve the regular run, it is very beatable.

Why not try both categories, and submit them to see which one the auidience thinks is better?

LLCoolDave wrote:

This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.

Posted: 9/21/2011 9:56 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

Because that would be a lot more work? :)

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 9/21/2011 10:38 PM

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NitroGenesis

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Joined: 12/24/2009
Posts: 1873

The glitch category is really dull. Since the levels are basically skipped, the clever level design can't be seen. All that's left is walking around on the RPG style mode which isn't entertaining at all.

YoungJ1997lol wrote:

Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.

Posted: 9/21/2011 11:09 PM

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jlun2

Skilled player (1709)

Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4952
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"

NitroGenesis wrote:

The glitch category is really dull. Since the levels are basically skipped, the clever level design can't be seen. All that's left is walking around on the RPG style mode which isn't entertaining at all.

Don't worry. This submission, despite containing mostly walking, was published, so maybe the glitched category may stand a chance?

LLCoolDave wrote:

This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.

Posted: 9/21/2011 11:12 PM

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NitroGenesis

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Editor, Experienced player (551)

Joined: 12/24/2009
Posts: 1873

jlun2 wrote:

NitroGenesis wrote:
The glitch category is really dull. Since the levels are basically skipped, the clever level design can't be seen. All that's left is walking around on the RPG style mode which isn't entertaining at all.
Don't worry. This submission, despite containing mostly walking, was published, so maybe the glitched category may stand a chance?

It's only 5 minutes long and has an average entertainment rating of 3.1. And Gargoyle's Quest, you're skipping all the fun parts of the game, and it would make the run much boring. Wow, I'm sounding like an asshole. :p

YoungJ1997lol wrote:

Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.

Posted: 9/21/2011 11:25 PM

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Sonikkustar

Skilled player (1309)

Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.

jlun2 wrote:

NitroGenesis wrote:
Sonikkustar wrote:
Well. Sorry for the huge bump, but I did a try at the glitched category. Test
The glitched category is very boring. Try to improve the regular run, it is very beatable.
Why not try both categories, and submit them to see which one the auidience thinks is better?

Well, I just did it mostly for fun. I was not going to improve the current run in any way due to my nature of TASing Genesis. ;) A new run with this glitching would probably be about 15-20 minutes given the new sequence breaks in the game that are now possible.

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Posted: 4/2/2012 11:17 PM

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Jigwally

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Joined: 3/11/2012
Posts: 119

Okay, so I have a complete run of the game finished and just as I predicted I'm 90 seconds ahead of the published run, but I'm not gonna submit it yet because I'm not even close to completely optimized. Here are my major changes thus far - Instead of scaling walls by jumping back and forth (as in the published run), I climb faster by simply scaling a single wall - The first boss (giant fish) is beaten much faster by standing point-blank and rapid firing - In the second dungeon, I was slightly quicker maneuvering around the floating vase-like platforms - After the second dungeon, I took the southern path back to the bridge, which is faster than going the northern route and having to fight enemies - This is by far the single greatest improvement to the run. On the second bridge, you aren't supposed to be able to cross the giant gap at the beginning without obtaining an item that gives you longer flight time. I found that, by periodically disabling and re-enabling your flight on the way across the gap, Firebrand travels farther than intended, and is able to cross the gap. There are probably several other places in the game where this can be used for optimization. -After the final boss fight, I speak with the king immediately instead of talking to the other NPCs. This is kind of a cheap "improvement" since this was an intentional entertainment tradeoff but I'm gonna list it anyway I've found another sequence break, but I haven't tested it out fully. Normally, you are required to obtain the Specter's Fingernail to give Firebrand a higher jump to pass the blockade on the first bridge. I've found that, with perfect timing, it's possible to pass the blockade with your normal jump, preventing you from having to talk to the NPC in town beforehand. However, the next dungeon needs to be completed using your weaker jump, which probably takes considerably longer than normal. I'll have to redo this section to see if it's any faster.

Posted: 4/2/2012 11:44 PM

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goofydylan8

Experienced player (509)

Joined: 11/2/2010
Posts: 359

Jigwally wrote:

Okay, so I have a complete run of the game finished and just as I predicted I'm 90 seconds ahead of the published run, but I'm not gonna submit it yet because I'm not even close to completely optimized. Here are my major changes thus far

If you want you could post a WIP and we could offer some feedback on the run. I currently have the published run for Gargoyle's Quest II for the NES which is pretty similar so I have some experience. Plus there are other members of the site, like mklip2001, who is extremely knowledgeable about these games and is very good at spotting possible improvements.

Posted: 4/2/2012 11:47 PM

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NitroGenesis

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I was thinking of TASing this, and I even sloppily did the first level once, and yet still beat the published run, haha. Post a WIP, I'd love to see it.

YoungJ1997lol wrote:

Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.

Posted: 4/8/2012 4:38 AM

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Jigwally

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Posts: 119

Well this is embarrassing but... soon after my last post in this thread, I somehow managed to overwrite my input file, and I didn't have it backed up. To make matters worse I had a lot of real-life things to attend to so I didn't have time to remake it. Luckily this gives me a good reason to go back over my previous route and try to find more improvements. Here is my best run for the first level so far: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1314698072/Gargoyle%27s%20Quest%20-%20Ghosts%27n%20Goblins.vbm It is nearly 12.5 seconds faster than the published run, mostly from killing the boss more quickly. It also improves on my previous WIP with better lag management. Since Firebrand's fireball attack actually causes the game to lag in many cases, I tend to (1) only kill enemies when it saves me time and (2) attack as closely to the enemies as possible to reduce the number of frames the fireball is present.

Posted: 4/9/2012 8:12 PM

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Jigwally

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Another WIP: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1301389782/Gargoyle%27s%20Quest%20-%20Ghosts%27n%20Goblins.vbm Here I show what I was talking about earlier, skipping the dialogue in the town and crossing the bridge without needing the Fingernail. I'll need to get it later though. This ends in the middle of the 2nd dungeon. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to manipulate the movement of the floating platforms.

Posted: 4/9/2012 9:11 PM

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goofydylan8

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Joined: 11/2/2010
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Jigwally wrote:

Another WIP: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1301389782/Gargoyle%27s%20Quest%20-%20Ghosts%27n%20Goblins.vbm Here I show what I was talking about earlier, skipping the dialogue in the town and crossing the bridge without needing the Fingernail. I'll need to get it later though. This ends in the middle of the 2nd dungeon. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to manipulate the movement of the floating platforms.

It is difficult to compare exactly since you did not get the Fingernail but it is interesting none the less. Here are my comments and questions so far. First, that boss fight is really good. It is extremely better than the boss fight in the published run so good on you for that. Here are my questions though. When using the wings you seem to mash A versus jumping and then just letting the wing run out. I know in the NES version it is the same or worse to do it this way compared to just letting the wing run continuously and from what I can tell he doesn't use it in the published run. Have you tested to confirm that this approach is faster? I know that your run is ahead due to a far better boss battle but is it optimized in other ways? It seems, compared to the other run, that you jump higher and then fall to land on platforms whereas the published run just barely makes it to ledges. In the NES version you lose x-momentum while jumping higher so the lowest possible jump is ideal.

Posted: 4/10/2012 1:21 AM

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Jigwally

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When using the wings you seem to mash A versus jumping and then just letting the wing run out. I know in the NES version it is the same or worse to do it this way compared to just letting the wing run continuously and from what I can tell he doesn't use it in the published run. Have you tested to confirm that this approach is faster?

Doing this in the GB version does allow me to cross larger gaps by using up less wingpower. It allows me to sequence break by crossing a normally impassable hole at the beginning of the second bridge. However, what you are probably asking here is, does this trick give me different x-velocity than usual? I haven't really checked this in detail. I have the RAM value for the x-position, but last time I looked at it there did not seem to be any variation in Firebrand's movement speed no matter how I chose to travel. Thanks for asking me that though, I'm going to double check.

Posted: 4/10/2012 12:22 PM

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Jigwally

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Okay, so as far as I can tell, there is absolutely no different in movement speed between jumping high, jumping low, flying or walking, provided that you don't trigger any lag frames. So I made it through the dungeon and back to the town, and now I realize something: by bypassing the fingernail and beating the 2nd boss, I'm now unable to obtain it at all. The second bridge works like this: if you talk to the NPC without having the upgraded Wings, he steps aside. If you obtain the wings first, though, you have to fight him. This is probably why in the published run he talks to the NPC first, grabs the wings, then walks past him. This probably ended up being faster than fighting. On a rough estimate based on watching the published run, the amount of time it takes to go into town the first time and get the fingernail is less than the time it takes to go back and get the wings (around 8 seconds faster). In addition, having the extra jump height saves me some time on the bridge and in the 2nd dungeon. So... I'm going to have to redo this section. Oh well, at least now I know the faster route. Regardless, I'll post my WIP here: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1876602244/Gargoyle%27s%20Quest%20-%20Ghosts%27n%20Goblins.vbm I did find a new trick just now, though. If you die after completing the 2nd dungeon (or any other dungeon, presumably), you respawn there after you die. By killing myself off after talking to the NPC in town I can teleport there which is possibly faster than crossing the bridge again. To optimize this I'd need to get into a random encounter as soon as possible though. So I'll have to do some investigation into the RNG.