NES Final Fantasy (USA) "White Mage Challenge" by TheAxeMan

  • Uses a suboptimal character
  • Takes damage
  • Heavy luck manipulation
  • Uses soft and hard resets
  • Contains a speed/entertainment tradeoff (To execute a special technique on the final boss)
Happy April 1! I've been thinking about making this April Fool's run for a long time and finally got around to it. The goals are as follows:
  1. Pick a party of four white mages.
  2. Use a certain technique on the final boss. I'll try to keep the details a surprise until more people have watched. It has been discussed on the forum but will still be a surprise to many.
  3. Finish as fast as possible.
A point of technical style is that I have no input on as many frames as possible. So there are no buttons pressed for over 96% of the run.

White Mage Challenge

The white mage challenge is famous because it was mentioned in the Nintendo Power strategy guide for Final Fantasy. 20 years later, Final Fantasy has the most active gamefaqs message board for an NES game and many of the topics are discussing some challenge or another.
Besides being famous, a white mage challenge also makes for an interesting game. The six character classes in Final Fantasy are not well balanced at all. The white and black mages have low physical attack power and defense and poor equipment selection. While physical fighters keep getting stronger, magic damage is fixed and only 9 charges per level can ever be stored up. Black mages are generally more useful because they get attack magic. White magic is tactically very useful, but the lack of offense makes the early game very difficult.
To create this run I adapted the code I used to analyze the game for the fighter run. The battles against Garland and the pirates were generated by an optimization script. I had another script that planned out encounters to avoid unrunnable fights and reduce the battle count. The route is slightly different because the white mage needs to pick up different treasures. Finally, the script that got the most work is the one that plans out running from all the battles. This script is why my runs tend to have low enemy count and few preemptive fights (the message takes time). See the submission text for the fighter run for more on my scripts.
As with my Crystalis run I am going to share all of the code [dead link removed] used to create this. Feel free to download and make your own Final Fantasy TAS.

Differences from Fighter

Compared to fighters, white mages have lower stats and much lower attack power. They have the worst selection of weapons and armor. The only advantage is that they get magic. For a TAS that means spending time and gold to get spells instead of weapons.
Later in the game some equipment becomes available that can be used in battle. This is extremely helpful in a white mage challenge as it is otherwise very difficult to do much damage. Some hardcore players might disallow this to increase the challenge. This run doesn't hold back, using the mage staff and bane sword.
In Final Fantasy, each levelup will gain some stats guaranteed. The other stats may be increased with a chance of 25%. The white mage's highest stat is intelligence and he earns a point on every level in this run. Unfortunately, intelligence is useless and has no effect on anything.
In a TAS, luck becomes the most important stat because it controls the chances of running from battle. The white mage gets about the same luck as a fighter but the guaranteed luck levelups are different.
This run takes about six minutes longer than the fighter run. About one minute is due to the special technique. The rest is due mostly to longer boss fights and shopping for magic. Kraken is the worst by far, about two minutes longer than the fighters.

Special Technique

The special technique used requires some setup that is coordinated with the route. I need to acquire and use two spells that aren't needed otherwise and I need some extra experience. Four points of level 4 magic are required, so I need to be on level 14 before going into the final dungeon. It also makes the last fight longer. So this can be considered a speed-entertainment tradeoff that adds about a minute to the run.
The first one to bring up this special technique on our forums was Bisqwit himself. He not only described the possibility but provided a program to analyze this. So thank you, Bisqwit!

New Tricks

A new trick in this run is to stay at an inn and hit the reset button as soon as the game is saved. This takes you outside of town with a faster screen transition, saving a few seconds in Pravoka and Elfland. Thanks to Vcimdarf (the top unassisted speedrunner for this game) for this tip. This can improve the fighter run as well, so stay tuned for an improvement on that. Vcimdarf had some other ideas that didn't work out for this run but may help the fighters.

Magic

White mages get magic and I put that to use in this run. Only to some extent though, because luck manipulation makes most non-damage magic useless. Only five spells are ever used and two of those are only used for the special technique.
RUSE increases the user's evasion rate. It is only used on the wizards.
HARM and HRM2 damage undead enemies. They get used against two undead bosses.
MUTE can prevent an enemy from using spells or abilities. I thought it would be more useful but it turned out that it was faster to manipulate luck. It ended up only helping on the final boss where I would otherwise not be able to execute my special technique.

The Route

Fighters can get away weaponless but white mages really need to arm themselves. So first thing I do is invest some of my starting gold in three iron hammers, HARM and RUSE. I only need three because one of my mages dies on Garland before attacking.
The Garland fight goes faster than the fighters because the armed white mages have slightly higher attack power and crit rate than unarmed fighters.
Luck is guaranteed on the levelup from Garland but not on pirates. I thought about making that happen but it turned out to be unnecessary.
After pirates I buy four tents at the item shop. This will be the only visit to an item shop.
All classes levelup at the same rate. So as with the fighters I need to kill off one party member on Garland and another on pirates to levelup on each battle. The third character dies on wizards to buy time for the survivor to use RUSE. RUSE is necessary to line up a critical hammer blow and two misses. It is possible to win with one RUSE, but two opens up more options and ends up being a little faster.
In Marsh Cave I pick up a house. It will be useful and I need to take some extra steps to work out the encounters.
You probably expect me to use MUTE on Astos but it is unnecessary when I can just make him attack and miss. Sorry, this ended up being the case on every boss until the end.
After beating Astos I have enough xp to get two levelups. However, the game only allows for getting one per battle. The white mage can really use another one so I take out an oddEye.
After getting the key I could pick up a silver hammer from the Elfland Castle treasury. I don't because it is much faster to buy one in Crescent Lake later and I won't need it until then.
In Elfland I buy HRM2 and stay at the inn. This recovers my MP and lets me get out of town quickly with the reset trick.
At Dwarf Cave I don't bother with the treasure room, saving about 26 seconds. The house and cabin would be useful but the items I have will suffice.
The white mage can actually beat the next two bosses faster than the fighter. I could beat the vampire in one turn but I use two to get luck and fit with the RNG flow better.
Before entering the cave again for Lich I use a house and a tent. I want to recover my MP and do a hard reset to set up encounters. There is a quirk with the house where MP is restored after saving. After using the tent my game is saved with MP recovered. So when I come back after the power cycle I have full MP.
Lich dies in four hits. As with the fighters, the next battle vs shadows has a 251/256 to be an ambush and I have to manipulate that with the last hit on Lich.
In Crescent Lake I buy a silver hammer. I have a few more bosses to take out before getting the bane sword and none of them are undead. Unfortunately, this hammer is the best I can do for a weapon.
Ice Cave is pretty straightforward. As with other bosses, it is faster to beat the Eye without spending a turn on MUTE. I manipulate another point of luck on the levelup. I get the same gold and tent chests as the fighter but skip the flame sword. That difference is why the hard resets before Crescent Lake and after Ice Cave are in different spots and also why I do not sail all the way into the Crescent Lake dock.
The Sea Shrine is mostly the same except that I make a side trip to get the mage staff. Mage staff has the effect of FIR2 when used in battle. That will let me fry a couple bosses later on, saving a ton of time over the hammer.
Sorry, the Kraken fight is very long and tedious but there is no way around it. Mage staff is not as effective as the hammer because he is strong against fire. So at 31 damage it takes 26 hits to finish him.
Waterfall and Lefein trip go the same as the fighter. If you have been keeping an eye on savegame/healing items you might notice that the tent before Mirage Tower is my last one.
Blue D. is weak against fire and goes down hard to the mage staff. Again, it turned out to be faster to take damage and manipulate misses instead of using MUTE.
After picking up the bane sword I rearrange my inventory so that it is in the first slot. The reason for this is complicated. First, the RNG is cycling as you move the cursor in battle. So if the item is in another slot, it may not be possible to use it on time. In some cases only one value in the RNG will do and it would take about 8 and half seconds to cycle back to that point. Later on this turns out to be the case. That's why I spend a few seconds on this, to cut out an 8-second cycle of the RNG.
I use the bane sword to take out a GrMedusa and two Naocho for extra experience. The goal is to hit level 14 on Kary. This is the best time to get the experience because I have the bane sword's killing power and the enemies here are worth a lot of experience. My first idea for the experience was to set up an encounter with WarMech, who would have single-handedly given all the experience. But it turned out to be impractical to set up.
Gurgu volcano is the same as with fighters. Kary is the fight where I needed bane sword in the first slot. There was no other way to work it out without another cycle of the RNG.
Before the final dungeon I make a pit stop in Elfland. The main reason is to buy a certain spell for my special technique. It would not be practical to get this earlier due to lack of gold. While here I stay at the inn to recover HP and MP. The inn takes some time but lets me avoid another stop at an item shop.
Mage staff is used on Phantom. Killing it with bane would always have four Zombie Ds in the next fight and I cannot run from it. Luckily it is weak against fire and uses mostly effect magic. (The fighter run gets away with bane because it gets a held-over levelup on the Phantom. The levelup uses the RNG for random stat gains, changing luck so I can get two Zombie Ds.)
Everything else in the Temple of Fiends goes down pretty similarly to the fighter run. Of course, until the final battle. Enjoy!

DarkKobold: Judging.

DarkKobold: I would have liked to see less Bane sword, but that seems to not be echoed. Accepting! Loved the end!

natt: Processing...

Player (79)
Joined: 8/5/2007
Posts: 865
System Error wrote:
I was going to vote no due to general extended boredom, wondering if EXIT could've been of any use (Waterfall?) and suggest that solo Thief be cooler because Thief is useless, then
I probably shouldn't answer prematurely, but if memory serves me, EXIT is only available to White Wizards. Black Mages can use WARP, however. As for solo Thief, I hope you like extensive level grinding in your TASes.
Ambassador, Experienced player (695)
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Bobo the King wrote:
As for solo Thief, I hope you like extensive level grinding in your TASes.
Because of luck manipulation, a solo thief wouldn't need to grind. He would just take a long time against some of the bosses. Unless you disallow BANE sword, but that would be a problem for any class. The extensive grinding would actually be for WARP or EXIT. Since they are level 5 and 6 magic it would take quite a bit more than just the bosses to get enough xp to use them on time. And for EXIT you need to do class change. The extra xp in this run comes very easily because it isn't needed until near the end. Getting that much xp earlier would take a lot more time.
Player (79)
Joined: 8/5/2007
Posts: 865
TheAxeMan wrote:
Bobo the King wrote:
As for solo Thief, I hope you like extensive level grinding in your TASes.
Because of luck manipulation, a solo thief wouldn't need to grind. He would just take a long time against some of the bosses. Unless you disallow BANE sword, but that would be a problem for any class. The extensive grinding would actually be for WARP or EXIT. Since they are level 5 and 6 magic it would take quite a bit more than just the bosses to get enough xp to use them on time. And for EXIT you need to do class change. The extra xp in this run comes very easily because it isn't needed until near the end. Getting that much xp earlier would take a lot more time.
I wondered if that might be the case, but I thought the battle RNG has a period of 256 (correct me if I'm wrong). Bleh, even so, I'm sure you could manipulate misses. Okay, I hereby amend my comment to, "I hope you like extensive, time-consuming luck manipulation and no appreciable gameplay differences in your TASes." One very minor question: Was there any gear that you used only in your Fighter run that you could have sold off in your White Mage run? I noticed you picked up a bunch of money in the Ice Cave (which really did seem like a convenient place to get it), but perhaps there were some swords and armor you could have sold instead? I'll look it up, but I suspect you knew what you were doing.
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When you arrive at a port with the ship, you leave the ship at the first tile where it's possible, rather than going as deep inside the port as possible. Since the ship moves much faster then the character on land, wouldn't this save a lot of frames?
Joined: 7/2/2007
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Port tiles are encounter-free (unlike ocean tiles or normal land tiles), so this was probably done to manipulate encounters.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Player (79)
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Warp wrote:
When you arrive at a port with the ship, you leave the ship at the first tile where it's possible, rather than going as deep inside the port as possible. Since the ship moves much faster then the character on land, wouldn't this save a lot of frames?
Question here with answer immediately following it.
Ambassador, Experienced player (695)
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If you are really curious about the little dock trick you can check out my scripts. Once you get ffPathfinder working it is easy to add steps somewhere and see how it affects encounters.
Bobo the King wrote:
Was there any gear that you used only in your Fighter run that you could have sold off in your White Mage run?
Dragon sword sells for 4000 gold, not enough to make a difference. Silver armor in the same room is worth about the same. There is some other treasure in Dwarf Cave but none of it sells for enough to bother. It's the time needed to pick it up that is painful. Selling is not as bad since I have to go to the Crescent Lake weapon shop anyway. Short sword in Marsh cave only sells for 275G so I am much better off getting the house with my extra steps.
snorlax
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Joined: 5/20/2007
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My first thought on seeing this submitted was, "Four white mages? It'll never work." Then you proved me wrong. Voting yes.
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TheAxeMan wrote:
.... Unless you disallow BANE sword, but that would be a problem for any class....
I was kind of hoping this run would be more like this - force the white mage to do something different.
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DarkKobold wrote:
TheAxeMan wrote:
.... Unless you disallow BANE sword, but that would be a problem for any class....
I was kind of hoping this run would be more like this - force the white mage to do something different.
You mean like spam FEAR? Any alternate strategies, TheAxeMan?
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Sure, there's other ways you can get a victory besides bane sword. They just aren't as fast. You could use HOLD to paralyze or conf staff to confuse it. Or MUTE and then attack while manipulating it to use magic. These are all going to be really slow on bosses with 1000+ hp though. Not sure which one is going to be best. Maybe a solo red mage that can use one of those spells and equip a decent weapon. Conf staff makes for long turns and bosses don't do much damage to themselves. Problem with using FEAR any more than I do here is that every boss has max morale and will take 4 FEARs. This run does get to use a few different strategies: RUSE, HARM, mage staff. Sorry, there's not much more variety in this game. NES RPGs are pretty simple.
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Surprised creditment! I had no idea that I had previously done any contribution towards TASes for this game, considering I know next to nothing about this game to begin with, but so it happens to be. I had apparently provided the calculations for someone's mathematics. There is always a possibility to be surprised. I watched maybe 50 % of this TAS and was sufficiently mind-blanked; then I stopped, because it had gotten repetitive and aside from the playback bar in the Youtube video, and from the increasing max HP of TheW, there was no indication whatsoever that you were closer to the end than you were in the beginning. Also, all the cool music gets interrupted continuously and reset back to the beginning of the song, so you cannot even enjoy that. I wouldn't mind the interruptions so much if the song did not get reset to its beginning every time, but... Good job, I presume. My vote is abstained. I would say, 'meh', but I presume it would not be fair for the phenomenal accomplishment that is this TAS. I just did not personally find it very entertaining, but it is a rather good mind-blanker.
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Thanks, Bisqwit. You bring up a good point in that a Final Fantasy TAS is not going to be an exciting watch the same way an action-adventure or platformer is. It's more about inspiring thought exercises about what is possible and how everything works or just zoning out for an hour or so and enjoying the music and art of the game. It reminds me of something a math professor said about a complex mathematical theorem that isn't computationally practical: the exciting thing is simply that it exists. So yeah, I was motivated to make this run because I wanted it to exist. From the comments and votes it sounds like that's enough for a lot people.
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snorlax wrote:
My first thought on seeing this submitted was, "Four white mages? It'll never work."
That would have been my alternate image of choice, but Scarecrow was cooler
Limne
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I do really like this run. It is stupendous. But I'm not sure that it really differs from the currently published run substantially enough. Of course, I'm usually for publishing pretty much anything that's interesting or good so I vote yes.
Player (245)
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DarkKobold wrote:
TheAxeMan wrote:
.... Unless you disallow BANE sword, but that would be a problem for any class....
I was kind of hoping this run would be more like this - force the white mage to do something different.
I have a "limited assistance" run which you may be interested in. I posted the .fcm file in the Final Fantasy forum a few pages back. It was over 5 hours with only ~2,000 re-records. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXdz99gZi3g There is the link to part 1/8 of the Youtube upload. I had a "true" solo white wizard (in the sense that 3 other characters had zero exp points at the game's end). I also did not use the Bane sword (except on Tiamat, who is weak against Bane anyway, and can be killed by it easily in a non-TAS setting).
Joined: 8/7/2011
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How do you kill the final boss quicker, but less entertainingly, than the method used as a White Mage?
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deuxhero wrote:
How do you kill the final boss quicker, but less entertainingly, than the method used as a White Mage?
same way just about everything else was killed: RNG manip bane.
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Well, I know I've been absent lately, but very excellent Axe! Glad to see you took my suggestion for the ending. ;)
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Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [2015] NES Final Fantasy "White Mage" by TheAxeMan in 1:16:37.56