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This is my improvement to my viral yet controversial run in which I attempted to get the Minimum Presses in Super Mario Bros. This is the 8th attempt at this feat, this time completing the game in 05:48.04 and 142 presses, a 3 press improvement.
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Game Objectives

  • Emulator used: FCEUX 2.1.5
  • Attempts to complete the game with the least amount of button presses possible
  • Avoids wasting time
  • Aims to maximize score / kills without jeopardizing the above goals
  • Takes damage to save presses
  • Heavy luck manipulation

The Run

See this section of my previous submission for details on the majority of the run that went unchanged.

Changes

1-1: 13 presses (-1).

andrewg reminded me that I could have Mario stop in his tracks by holding down. As such, it became apparent that you can wait for the Goombas to move out of the way if you continue to hold down after going down the pipe. This saves one press.

8-2: 16 presses (-1).

Perfect enemy manipulation allows me to use one jump instead of two during the section before the final stairs. This requires two Bullet Bills. Room for error? There is none: after moving past the pipe, the jump must start and end at an exact frame or the trick will not work. I attempt to move past the pipe at the earliest time that allows me to both land on the second Bill and propel myself off of the final Koopa. This the one press I previously needed to jump past the second to last set of stairs.

8-3: 13 presses (0).

Because the enemies move based on a global timer, I had to do a lot of work in TASEdit to fix this stage. During this process, I realized that it's possible to make the second grounded Hammer Bros. deactivate if I pass it at the wrong time. This makes it impossible to manipulate the final grounded Hammer Bro, so this was avoided.

8-4: 26 presses (-1).

andrewg pointed out that I could hold A after exiting the pipe in the water section and avoid pressing A again to swim. In order to pull this off, I had to hold down earlier on to slow down enough to land in the pipe with a full jump. This saves one press.

Lua Script

See this section of my previous submission for details on the Lua script used to display the input in the encode.

Special Thanks

Thanks to andrewg for his improvements in 1-1 and 8-4. Again, thanks to FractalFusion for creating this amazing Lua script. I also would like to thank him, along with MUGG, for creating some of the previous MP TASes of this game. Finally, thanks to LexSfX for helping out with encoding.
adelikat: Claimed for judging
DarkKobold: Agreed with adelikat, Taking over judging.
DarkKobold: Sadly, there was cheating involved with this submission. Thus, 3 yes votes should be removed from the voting.
DarkKobold: In general, these runs would be rejected on feedback alone. However, I believe that a decision is required on the minimum presses category in general. To not belabor this any longer, these types of runs just don't fit with the publications on the site. A TAS should be able to stand on its own merits. This category requires a script to evaluate the number of presses, a DDR-style output to show the buttons, and etc.
That said, there are plenty of forums out there that have their own side competitions outside the publication of the site. BrandonE has set up a page to track these minimum press runs. I am all for that. However, I don't believe that this category merits a publication on the standard site.
Also, while a technical challenge, I don't believe it produces interesting movies. It has been compared to "No B" run of SMB. However, it is easy for the audience to identify with the concept of not hitting B. It is fundamental to the gameplay. No one playing SMB counts the number of times they press a button while playing the game, or the number of jumps they make, and etc. These super technical categories don't really fit with the aims of the site.
CoolHandMike: Unrejecting for re-judging based on new rules.
CoolHandMike: New rules remove entertainment requirements for movies. While looking at this movie saw that this [6209] GBA Rhythm Tengoku "minimum presses" by yamalpaca0412 in 1:24:41.88 was accepted which has the same idea as this movie. To keep the goal similar in name I renamed this one to "minimum presses" as well. This tas does keep the presses down to a minimum as far as I can tell. Was able to get this movie to sync on the newer FCEUX 2.2.3.
Accepting to Alternative with goal "minimum presses".
Interesting tas!
fsvgm777: Processing. McBobX is handling the encodes for this one.

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Posted: 4/8/2012 11:48 AM
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mklip2001
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Hmm... actually, HappyLee is making a good point here. I was willing to go along with some lack of optimization in Brandon's run, because I felt it was fairly minor. However, a 12 second difference is really significant in a stage (compared to the 42-frame improvement from 1-1). However, HappyLee, keep in mind that the first run in a new category doesn't always have to have the same intense level of optimization. After all, the first run is more difficult to produce when there aren't predecessors against which to compare your run. The first run of a game should still have an acceptable level of quality, and it can serve as an inspiration for TASers to improve it. I mean, it didn't feel like Brandon's run was "sloppy" or "easy" to me when I watched it (but I'm not a TASer, and I didn't know about the 12sec improvement either, I guess). You mentioned the minimum score run as well. I think that run gives a really good example of a run that is cool in theory but not in practice. In theory, it's impressive to avoid picking up coins, dodge obstacles, and have spare time to play around in the stage. In practice, though, you just have to waste too much time, and the run becomes monotonous. With this type of run, although the run is slower, it is not too much slower; I still kept my interest throughout. In summary, do I think this is an incredible run of Super Mario Bros? Not really... the warpless run is really the best that SMB has to offer. Is this run a neat idea? Yes, I think so. Is it sufficiently well-played at this point, even if not perfect? I thought so, but I don't have the trained eye that HappyLee and Mars have for improvements.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Posted: 4/8/2012 12:41 PM
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Nach
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Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
The points about not as optimized as can be is indeed true. But we must also remember that the current regular SMB run is a 00:17.85 second improvement over the first TAS, 15 runs earlier. Even regular people can beat that original run in real time. If this run can be beaten in 142 or even 135 presses, then so be it. But people need to have the ingenuity to come up with that. People didn't come up with all the speed cutting tricks in the regular speed TAS the first few times. In any case, it was still worthwhile to accept most of those early SMB TASs, as they were still technically impressive in their own right, and paved the way for faster runs to come.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 4/8/2012 2:06 PM
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HappyLee
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Joined: 12/23/2007
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Yeah, that's right. But every strategy has its limit, we have to imagine what would be the limit of this run, that is to say what would be the future of this TAS. First of all, I've proved that 1-2 can be done 12 seconds faster. I don't know if it's a good thing from the entertainment point of view, because it does make the run looks even more like a "newbie run" or something that has been mentioned above. World 8 might have several improvements. I'd like to see how it would turned out, whether getting more and more similar to the published warped run or getting more and more similar to a "newbie run", or perhaps, having its more distinctive own character. I'd probably make demos for that.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Posted: 4/8/2012 5:08 PM
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Nightwatch
Joined: 2/12/2008
Posts: 67
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Although I really like the concept of minimum button presses, I'm voting no due to the lack of optimization. I would vote yes if the run were optimized.
Posted: 4/8/2012 9:25 PM
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Personman
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Joined: 4/20/2008
Posts: 465
Oh HappyLee, how I wish you were excited to add your expertise to Brandon's new idea to produce a well-optimized collaboration! There is no need to tell him how much he sucks - he knows very well that he's not a superstar SMB TASer, and didn't even try for most glitches. That's just not what he cares about! And that's okay! He has undeniably contributed something that many community members are interested in, and sparked the desire to see how far his idea can go. You could help us all find out and come off as a hero, but instead you've chosen to disparage Brandon's work. I understand what you said about how for you this game is like a whole other world. But that's why you have to understand that your opinion is in the minority, and that this game can be meaningful for other people in ways you can't appreciate. I wish you could get excited about this run and help out, but if you really can't, please just back off and let the people who do care have their fun. I have no idea if the judges will accept this run or not, but at this point both sides have made their case, and you won't influence them further by continuing to insult people.
A warb degombs the brangy. Your gitch zanks and leils the warb.
Posted: 4/8/2012 9:33 PM
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Nach
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Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Personman wrote:
I have no idea if the judges will accept this run or not
I would accept this. But I'm going to recuse myself from judging this run due to the obvious bias.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 4/8/2012 9:37 PM
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Brandon
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Mars608 wrote:
As an expert on SMB and also a long-term SMB TASer, I hardly think this run has any entertainment or technical standpoint at all. You can easily reach to a total 142 of presses with S/L only and no other tools. Therefore I object to the publication of this TAS.
If this means Saving/Loading, this is total nonsense. There is zero room for error to do the trick in 8-2; one frame off and you're toast, so frame advance is necessary. For 8-3, you can't get those Hammer Bros. to jump at the right times unless you watch their memory addresses.
HappyLee wrote:
Here's another DEMO till 4-2 with an easy 714 frame (12 seconds) improvement in 1-2. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/79973731/HappyLee_SMB_MPdemo4-1.fcm And somebody please help me check the sum of key presses in my DEMO to make sure it's exactly the same as Brandon's, because that lua script won't run on my computer due to some reasons.
Yes, you are at 41 presses, which is where I'm at, but it through me off at first because there's 2 player input in it for some bizarre reason. Here's a fixed FM2. Granted, your new route gets rid of the need to moonwalk. That said, it's obvious you can improve this further by not running into that floating block at the beginning of 4-2. I hope you fix this and finish this run.
Personman wrote:
Oh HappyLee, how I wish you were excited to add your expertise to Brandon's new idea to produce a well-optimized collaboration! There is no need to tell him how much he sucks - he knows very well that he's not a superstar SMB TASer, and didn't even try for most glitches. That's just not what he cares about! And that's okay! He has undeniably contributed something that many community members are interested in, and sparked the desire to see how far his idea can go. You could help us all find out and come off as a hero, but instead you've chosen to disparage Brandon's work. I understand what you said about how for you this game is like a whole other world. But that's why you have to understand that your opinion is in the minority, and that this game can be meaningful for other people in ways you can't appreciate. I wish you could get excited about this run and help out, but if you really can't, please just back off and let the people who do care have their fun. I have no idea if the judges will accept this run or not, but at this point both sides have made their case, and you won't influence them further by continuing to insult people.
Thank you. This meant a lot.
All the best, Brandon Evans
Posted: 4/9/2012 12:25 AM
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HappyLee
Expert player (2575)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 831
NES TASer of 2012
Thanks, Brandon. I think my input configuration might be wrong, thank you for telling me that. I've hardly ever watched memory addresses of enemies. I'll try to learn it if it's necessary in 8-3.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Posted: 4/9/2012 1:18 AM
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Brandon
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HappyLee wrote:
Thanks, Brandon. I think my input configuration might be wrong, thank you for telling me that. I've hardly ever watched memory addresses of enemies. I'll try to learn it if it's necessary in 8-3.
I mean, if you think you can do it, do it, but I don't want to hear that you only need to save and load to match 8-3 if you haven't even tried. You'll be wasting a lot of time if you don't use RAM Search; the only other way is to guess over and over again.
All the best, Brandon Evans
Posted: 4/9/2012 1:27 AM
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HappyLee
Expert player (2575)
Joined: 12/23/2007
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NES TASer of 2012
Well, I don't read RAM so well, so what I often do is guessing over and over again. You do better than me of course. Excuse me, but I didn't get what you meant when you were saying "floating block at the beginning of 4-2". Could you tell me where exactly is the block? Thank you. Edit: Since I've created a demo, don't you like to improve it yourself?
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Posted: 4/9/2012 1:38 AM
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Brandon
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HappyLee wrote:
Well, I don't read RAM so well, so what I often do is guessing over and over again. You do better than me of course.
I'm telling you, you will be working on this for hours before you give up. If, at that point, you'd like me to provide the input to get past the Hammer Bros. and offer me co-authorship, then by all means...
HappyLee wrote:
Excuse me, but I didn't get what you meant when you were saying "floating block at the beginning of 4-2". Could you tell me where exactly is the block? Thank you.
1-2, sorry. There's a point in which you run into a block and I don't understand why you do that instead of jumping over it. It doesn't save any presses.
HappyLee wrote:
Edit: Since I've created a demo, don't you like to improve it yourself?
I'd rather you continue and complete this run because I feel and have always felt that a more experienced SMB TASer would be best suited to optimize this for time; I merely wanted to come up with the smallest press count and attempt to further optimize it if there were no other people willing to do it. If I redo this, I will inevitably do a suboptimal job, because regardless of how elitist many of your previous comments have been, and believe me, they were very much so, quite a bit of it is warranted. You don't need to throw the fact into our faces that you know this game's engine more than probably anyone in the world; we know, and I happily concede to you on this front.
All the best, Brandon Evans
Posted: 4/9/2012 3:49 AM
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HappyLee
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Joined: 12/23/2007
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Brandon wrote:
1-2, sorry. There's a point in which you run into a block and I don't understand why you do that instead of jumping over it. It doesn't save any presses.
Oh, the coin block in 1-2. That's a clever part, because I won't be able to do the wall jump if I don't slow down a bit, but since I'm holding right for a long way, I have to bump into at least a wall. As for a fully optimized minimum presses run, I don't really enjoy doing this. So I might be more willing to help you find improvements instead, or a nice and friendly co-authorship would be better.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Posted: 4/9/2012 5:34 AM
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Brandon
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HappyLee wrote:
As for a fully optimized minimum presses run, I don't really enjoy doing this. So I might be more willing to help you find improvements instead, or a nice and friendly co-authorship would be better.
But then I'm afraid you'll just come back raising more hell that I've done something suboptimal...and I don't really enjoy that.
All the best, Brandon Evans
Posted: 4/9/2012 6:42 AM
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HappyLee
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I swear I wouldn't. I'd do the best I can to help you. Is that OK?
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Posted: 4/9/2012 6:51 AM
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Brandon
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HappyLee wrote:
I swear I wouldn't. I'd do the best I can to help you. Is that OK?
I think someone's just afraid of doing 8-2 and 8-3 because there's no way you'll be able to do it with simple S/L. Look, if you're adamant about not making your own run or leading a run and letting me handle the manipulation aspects, I'll obviously be forced to try to match your demo and continue from there, but I acknowledge that I'll inevitably provide a file that's suboptimal in comparison to what you could produce, so why waste both of our times? I mean, I have trouble wall-jumping, let alone know every single facet of this game like the back of my hand. If you truly see this game differently than anyone else and love working with it, then why would you back down from making this kind of branch when, even if it doesn't belong on this site, you've said yourself that it might be a worthwhile competition?
All the best, Brandon Evans
Posted: 4/9/2012 7:09 AM
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HappyLee
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Forget the competition. Cooperation makes better movies, isn't that right? I'm not afraid of doing anything, because 8-2 and 8-3 doesn't seem hard to me at all.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Posted: 4/9/2012 7:32 AM
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Brandon
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HappyLee wrote:
Forget the competition. Cooperation makes better movies, isn't that right? I'm not afraid of doing anything, because 8-2 and 8-3 doesn't seem hard to me at all.
Perhaps. Are you going to try to pick up presses in 4-2 first? I mean, I could just do the second half of the run...I don't think you'll find any additional press improvements / major speed improvements in World 8 anyway.
All the best, Brandon Evans
Posted: 4/9/2012 7:39 AM
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HappyLee
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I have a feeling that I might find something. After all, world 8 truly is a big world. But I'll try to improve 4-2 first.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Posted: 4/9/2012 10:09 AM
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Personman
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Yay! Cooperation! ^___^ Good luck guys, I can't wait for the resulting run.
A warb degombs the brangy. Your gitch zanks and leils the warb.
Posted: 4/9/2012 4:45 PM
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Brandon
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HappyLee wrote:
I have a feeling that I might find something. After all, world 8 truly is a big world. But I'll try to improve 4-2 first.
Well, the point is, if don't want to complete the run, and are willing to get me up to World 8, I'll complete it. If you find any improvements, I'll implement them while still getting all the manipulation to work.
All the best, Brandon Evans
Posted: 4/10/2012 3:06 AM
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AUS
Joined: 4/6/2012
Posts: 27
Not to derail the topic, but I can't help but wonder what that DDR-style map would look like applied to an insane SMB TAS.
Posted: 4/10/2012 7:44 AM
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HappyLee
Expert player (2575)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 831
NES TASer of 2012
Brandon wrote:
HappyLee wrote:
I have a feeling that I might find something. After all, world 8 truly is a big world. But I'll try to improve 4-2 first.
Well, the point is, if don't want to complete the run, and are willing to get me up to World 8, I'll complete it. If you find any improvements, I'll implement them while still getting all the manipulation to work.
Well, how about we both try to find improvements, and both do the manipulation work? Then we may be able to get better result. I'll try the manipulation work of 8-2 and 8-3 myself, too.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Posted: 4/10/2012 7:47 AM
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Brandon
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HappyLee wrote:
Brandon wrote:
HappyLee wrote:
I have a feeling that I might find something. After all, world 8 truly is a big world. But I'll try to improve 4-2 first.
Well, the point is, if don't want to complete the run, and are willing to get me up to World 8, I'll complete it. If you find any improvements, I'll implement them while still getting all the manipulation to work.
Well, how about we both try to find improvements, and both do the manipulation work? Then we may be able to get better result. I'll try the manipulation work of 8-2 and 8-3 myself, too.
Meh, I suppose. I still don't understand how you all do these glitches so easily.
All the best, Brandon Evans
Posted: 4/10/2012 8:02 AM
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HappyLee
Expert player (2575)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 831
NES TASer of 2012
Maybe it's experience, I guess. PS: How about we talking privately on PM, and let judges do their work?
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Posted: 4/13/2012 5:11 AM
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subanark
Joined: 2/8/2006
Posts: 60
Please don't let this die simply because some people want to keep this site "pure". It has well defined goals and although speed is secondary, it still tries to complete the game as fast as possible while minimizing the button presses. If this category is implemented, I would say that any run that uses the same number of button presses, but does it in less time is enough to obsolete the previous run.
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