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This is my improvement to my viral yet controversial run in which I attempted to get the Minimum Presses in Super Mario Bros. This is the 8th attempt at this feat, this time completing the game in 05:48.04 and 142 presses, a 3 press improvement.
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Game Objectives

  • Emulator used: FCEUX 2.1.5
  • Attempts to complete the game with the least amount of button presses possible
  • Avoids wasting time
  • Aims to maximize score / kills without jeopardizing the above goals
  • Takes damage to save presses
  • Heavy luck manipulation

The Run

See this section of my previous submission for details on the majority of the run that went unchanged.

Changes

1-1: 13 presses (-1).

andrewg reminded me that I could have Mario stop in his tracks by holding down. As such, it became apparent that you can wait for the Goombas to move out of the way if you continue to hold down after going down the pipe. This saves one press.

8-2: 16 presses (-1).

Perfect enemy manipulation allows me to use one jump instead of two during the section before the final stairs. This requires two Bullet Bills. Room for error? There is none: after moving past the pipe, the jump must start and end at an exact frame or the trick will not work. I attempt to move past the pipe at the earliest time that allows me to both land on the second Bill and propel myself off of the final Koopa. This the one press I previously needed to jump past the second to last set of stairs.

8-3: 13 presses (0).

Because the enemies move based on a global timer, I had to do a lot of work in TASEdit to fix this stage. During this process, I realized that it's possible to make the second grounded Hammer Bros. deactivate if I pass it at the wrong time. This makes it impossible to manipulate the final grounded Hammer Bro, so this was avoided.

8-4: 26 presses (-1).

andrewg pointed out that I could hold A after exiting the pipe in the water section and avoid pressing A again to swim. In order to pull this off, I had to hold down earlier on to slow down enough to land in the pipe with a full jump. This saves one press.

Lua Script

See this section of my previous submission for details on the Lua script used to display the input in the encode.

Special Thanks

Thanks to andrewg for his improvements in 1-1 and 8-4. Again, thanks to FractalFusion for creating this amazing Lua script. I also would like to thank him, along with MUGG, for creating some of the previous MP TASes of this game. Finally, thanks to LexSfX for helping out with encoding.
adelikat: Claimed for judging
DarkKobold: Agreed with adelikat, Taking over judging.
DarkKobold: Sadly, there was cheating involved with this submission. Thus, 3 yes votes should be removed from the voting.
DarkKobold: In general, these runs would be rejected on feedback alone. However, I believe that a decision is required on the minimum presses category in general. To not belabor this any longer, these types of runs just don't fit with the publications on the site. A TAS should be able to stand on its own merits. This category requires a script to evaluate the number of presses, a DDR-style output to show the buttons, and etc.
That said, there are plenty of forums out there that have their own side competitions outside the publication of the site. BrandonE has set up a page to track these minimum press runs. I am all for that. However, I don't believe that this category merits a publication on the standard site.
Also, while a technical challenge, I don't believe it produces interesting movies. It has been compared to "No B" run of SMB. However, it is easy for the audience to identify with the concept of not hitting B. It is fundamental to the gameplay. No one playing SMB counts the number of times they press a button while playing the game, or the number of jumps they make, and etc. These super technical categories don't really fit with the aims of the site.
CoolHandMike: Unrejecting for re-judging based on new rules.
CoolHandMike: New rules remove entertainment requirements for movies. While looking at this movie saw that this [6209] GBA Rhythm Tengoku "minimum presses" by yamalpaca0412 in 1:24:41.88 was accepted which has the same idea as this movie. To keep the goal similar in name I renamed this one to "minimum presses" as well. This tas does keep the presses down to a minimum as far as I can tell. Was able to get this movie to sync on the newer FCEUX 2.2.3.
Accepting to Alternative with goal "minimum presses".
Interesting tas!
fsvgm777: Processing. McBobX is handling the encodes for this one.

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Posted: 4/13/2012 5:16 AM
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Warp
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Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
subanark wrote:
If this category is implemented, I would say that any run that uses the same number of button presses, but does it in less time is enough to obsolete the previous run.
If this category is accepted for this game, should it be accepted for all games? Will we start getting a flood of lazily-done "minimum presses" runs of random games? (Edit: With the above remark I didn't mean to imply that this run was lazily done. I was trying to say that the quality of such runs for other games might decrease if people start rushing to submit runs under this category.)
Posted: 4/13/2012 5:44 AM
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CoolKirby
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I would think that lazily done (rushed) "minimum presses" runs could be rejected for being suboptimal or unentertaining just like other submissions. Especially if the run in question doesn't actually complete the game in the least number of button presses.
Posted: 4/13/2012 8:49 AM
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Warp
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CoolKirby wrote:
I would think that lazily done (rushed) "minimum presses" runs could be rejected for being suboptimal or unentertaining just like other submissions. Especially if the run in question doesn't actually complete the game in the least number of button presses.
How would you know that it's not the least number of button presses?
Posted: 4/13/2012 9:05 AM
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CoolKirby
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Warp wrote:
How would you know that it's not the least number of button presses?
Wouldn't there be at least one other TASer who knows enough about the game to know when the game could be completed in 1 or 2 less presses? For example, andrewg suggested a 1 press improvement to Brandon's original "145 presses" SMB run (and eventually Brandon found 2 more presses could be saved as a result).
Posted: 4/13/2012 10:15 AM
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Hutch
Joined: 4/21/2011
Posts: 91
CoolKirby wrote:
Warp wrote:
How would you know that it's not the least number of button presses?
Wouldn't there be at least one other TASer who knows enough about the game to know when the game could be completed in 1 or 2 less presses? For example, andrewg suggested a 1 press improvement to Brandon's original "145 presses" SMB run (and eventually Brandon found 2 more presses could be saved as a result).
Possibly yes, but you could also apply this logic to say that someone else could know whether a frame (in a normal TAS aiming for lowest time) could be saved somewhere, and following this reasoning, no TAS would ever be published.
Posted: 4/14/2012 4:54 AM
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Heisanevilgenius
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I voted no. I just don't think this criteria makes for an exciting TAS. The little graphic you created to show all the button presses is cool, but that doesn't really make the TAS itself interesting. Edit: I need to apologize. I thought this was the same submission I viewed earlier. The improvements to this video were great and I would like to change my vote to yes.
Posted: 4/14/2012 6:02 AM
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SuperMario12
Joined: 11/9/2011
Posts: 10
Hey, I think I found an improvement! I haven't tested it and I never TASed SMB but I think it works. If you don't jump and get hit by the Goomba at 2:15, you should fit under the platform at 2:30. | -2 presses Maybe you can use a singel jump to get to warp zone pipe 8, if you are small. | -3 presses BUT if you are small you have to jump at 2:50 and I'm not sure if Mario can make this jump with a singel press. Maybe it will work if you jump of the Koopa. | -2 or -1 presses If everything works this will save 2 presses, and even if you have to jump twice at 2:50 it will save one press!
YouTube Channel! [TAS] NDS: WarioWare: Touched! in 29:50.84 Bla Bla Bla Sentry
Posted: 4/14/2012 6:59 AM
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Brandon
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SuperMario12 wrote:
If everything works this will save 2 presses, and even if you have to jump twice at 2:50 it will save one press!
The problem is that you need to jump three times: 1 to get over the Koopas, 1 to get over the Goombas, and 1 to get over the pipe. I'm pretty sure I've tested this before. So, unless you're right about small Mario being able to jump to the warp pipe in one jump, which is worth testing but I would imagine unlikely because the difference in height is probably not enough, your strategy would at best match mine, and would probably waste time maneuvering around the Piranha Plant. Thanks for the suggestions, though!
All the best, Brandon Evans
Posted: 4/14/2012 7:46 AM
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SuperMario12
Joined: 11/9/2011
Posts: 10
Brandon wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions, though!
No problem :)
YouTube Channel! [TAS] NDS: WarioWare: Touched! in 29:50.84 Bla Bla Bla Sentry
Posted: 4/14/2012 12:56 PM
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HappyLee
Expert player (2574)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 831
NES TASer of 2012
Brandon wrote:
SuperMario12 wrote:
If everything works this will save 2 presses, and even if you have to jump twice at 2:50 it will save one press!
The problem is that you need to jump three times: 1 to get over the Koopas, 1 to get over the Goombas, and 1 to get over the pipe. I'm pretty sure I've tested this before. So, unless you're right about small Mario being able to jump to the warp pipe in one jump, which is worth testing but I would imagine unlikely because the difference in height is probably not enough, your strategy would at best match mine, and would probably waste time maneuvering around the Piranha Plant. Thanks for the suggestions, though!
What about pressing down before meeting the koopa, and waiting for the koopa and 3 goombas go off the cliff? I'll probably test this later. Edit: Having tested it, I found it hard to see those goombas. Edit2: The good news is, at least my trick in 4-2 works, having saved another 1 press.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Posted: 4/14/2012 4:48 PM
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
I like the technical challenge involved in this minimum presses TAS. It reminds me of the ingenuity required to make that one level (was it 4-3?) possible in a walkathon. Shaving off presses is just as difficult as shaving off frames of a well-thought-out run. And this run needs to do both! It's unfortunate that the final result doesn't look superhuman, but having the press counter helps. I don't see anything wrong with the goal since I like the idea of a lazy superior robot playing the game with as little effort as possible. But what about publishing as a concept demo (for any game with an MP run) and linking to it from the any% text?
Posted: 4/17/2012 12:42 AM
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KusogeMan
Experienced player (788)
Joined: 2/5/2012
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Keep the number of different branches per game minimal. A run for a proposed new branch for a game should offer compelling differences relative to previously published runs of that game. THIS IS A JUDGE GUIDELINE i think this category is too retarded to get published.it barely changes the game,only a minute more of game play.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Posted: 4/17/2012 12:43 AM
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adelikat
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bkDJ wrote:
But what about publishing as a concept demo (for any game with an MP run) and linking to it from the any% text?
The problem with that is that we have no concept demo section anymore :)
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Posted: 4/17/2012 2:34 AM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
grassini wrote:
GUIDELINE
That's the important word there. :) Guidelines are meant to generally be followed, but exceptions can always be made if people think it's worthwhile. Obviously you don't.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 4/17/2012 9:50 AM
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IronSlayer
Joined: 5/30/2007
Posts: 324
Runs should be entertaining. Failing that, they should at least get the fastest time within a reasonable category. This particular submission fails at both. It's a considerably slower run than what many human players are capable of, and it's not particularly entertaining to watch without the input visualization, featuring lots of dead time and simplistic movements. No vote. Edit- I'm a little disappointed that some people were giving HappyLee shit about his comments. The guy, in a very respectful, articulate manner, explained why the publication made little sense to him. HappyLee is obviously very passionate about SMB1 (not to mention the best in the world at TAS'ing it), so there is nothing wrong with him making multiple comments about this run. Then, to further reinforce his points, he produced MASSIVE improvements over the submission in a very quick manner. I wish we had more people scrutinizing submissions this well!
Posted: 4/17/2012 10:35 PM
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BigBoct
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adelikat wrote:
bkDJ wrote:
But what about publishing as a concept demo (for any game with an MP run) and linking to it from the any% text?
The problem with that is that we have no concept demo section anymore :)
Like I've said, I think a good solution is for movies like this to have an "Unconventional Goals" tag.
Previous Name: boct1584
Posted: 4/17/2012 11:15 PM
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Brandon
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boct1584 wrote:
Like I've said, I think a good solution is for movies like this to have an "Unconventional Goals" tag.
I don't agree with this. I think if this run or runs of its category deserve to be published on this site, it should have its own tag. The better debate I think that needs to happen is whether or not the current category names are sufficient. I think that they are not. "Minimum presses" is decent, but it doesn't exactly say what is being pressed. The bigger issue is its sister category, "minimum holds". This has been a major source of confusion since I submitted my first run. I believe I was talking to scrimpy describing the two, and he was like "Wait a second...you hold buttons in minimum presses runs...but you press buttons in minimum holds runs?" In truth, yeah, that's pretty much the strategies you have to take in order to make optimal runs in these categories. So, I think "holds" is a terrible term. I'm thinking of renaming "minimum presses" to "minimum buttons pressed" and "minimum holds" to "minimum buttons recorded". Now, even "buttons recorded" is a little ambiguous (But your run records 8 buttons!), but still, I'm not sure what the alternative can be. I certainly think it's a better strategy to use a verb to describe these categories than a noun, and although MBP TAS and MBR TAS would be stupid abbreviations, I'm willing to give the abbreviations up in order to be more in line with the other categories. Let me know what you think. I think at the end of the day, I really just want to provide an optimal version of this run (HappyLee and I are working on it) and justify that this category should exist. If the best version of this run isn't entertaining enough to be published, then it should be rejected. I'm still going to do these kinds of runs and track them elsewhere on the site (Although I hope that this run would at least justify the movement of Brandon/MinimumButtons.html to /MinimumButtons.html). However, when one of these runs has potential to be entertaining, I think that they should be submitted and judged based on the entertainment value and not on whether "this is what we do at TASVideos"; I think several people have proven that this is in-fact a superplay and has all of the elements of a TAS. In order to see if this category can be entertaining enough to publish, I will be submitting another run of this type shortly.
All the best, Brandon Evans
Posted: 4/17/2012 11:18 PM
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ais523
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It makes perfect sense to press in minimum holds, and hold in minimum presses. Because in minimum holds, what you're trying not to do is hold. And in minimum presses, what you're trying not to do is press. This is just the same thing as minimum in-game-time runs sometimes spending a lot of realtime, and minimum realtime runs often wasting in-game time.
Posted: 4/17/2012 11:21 PM
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Brandon
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ais523 wrote:
It makes perfect sense to press in minimum holds, and hold in minimum presses. Because in minimum holds, what you're trying not to do is hold. And in minimum presses, what you're trying not to do is press. This is just the same thing as minimum in-game-time runs sometimes spending a lot of realtime, and minimum realtime runs often wasting in-game time.
Perhaps, but then the problem is "quantifying" holds. In "minimum presses" runs, you're trying to hold down buttons the least number of times. For "minimum holds" runs, you're trying to hold down buttons for the least amount of time. Holds could describe either scenario honestly.
All the best, Brandon Evans
Posted: 4/17/2012 11:26 PM
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Nach
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"Minimum button state changes" is the truth about what this category is about. I don't like the other category at all.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 4/18/2012 12:52 AM
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BigBoct
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Your "Minimum holds" category would be better named "shortest button press time," I think.
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Posted: 4/18/2012 5:16 AM
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Brandon
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boct1584 wrote:
Your "Minimum holds" category would be better named "shortest button press time," I think.
But it's the sum of the shortest press times. "Shortest button press time" could easily mean "press start for one frame. That's the shortest press time possible! OK, continue on with your run normally." I really think it should be "minimum buttons ?" where ? is a good description of what's happening to the buttons in relation to the goal. I think recorded is decent, but it'd be easier if there were a name for each instance of a button in the movie file. "Minimum buttons in frames" is also decent except for it being a bit long and inconsistent with the other goal, and who knows what will happen if we eventually support subframes...
All the best, Brandon Evans
Posted: 4/18/2012 10:52 AM
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Scepheo
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Brandon, you're thinking too much. People aren't retarded, Minimum presses and minimum holds are perfectly clear names. And like Nach, I very much dislike the idea of minimum holds.
Posted: 4/18/2012 10:54 AM
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Brandon
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Scepheo wrote:
Brandon, you're thinking too much. People aren't retarded, Minimum presses and minimum holds are perfectly clear names. And like Nach, I very much dislike the idea of minimum holds.
It confused scrimpy. That's rude of you to call scrimpy retarded. Also, you should see that category in action...I've seen demos of SMB done that way, and I honestly think it's more entertaining than minimum presses. The problem is that they are so impossible to make.
All the best, Brandon Evans
Posted: 4/19/2012 8:10 PM
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scrimpeh
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Brandon is correct, I find the terminology used very misleading and I think neither is really indicative of what it really contains, simply because it isn't clearly defined what a press or a hold really is. I think there isn't a way to precisely express either category with just two or three words, but it needs to be enough to clearly differentiate them at a first glance.
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