In 2008, inichi demonstrated the full extent of subframe reset abuse in Chrono Trigger.
When Ersnes Rerecod Van Daaz Octava Deltius graced the land with his presence on the tenth of May, men fell to their knees as calamity brewed in the north.
Divine wrath descended upon a distant tundra. Thunder raged for several hours and the ground was carved anew. Soon the gods' message had reached even the farthest of lands:

"- Mid-frame reset support"

primary10bit444

  • Heavy glitch abuse
  • Uses sub-frame resets
  • Corrups save data
  • Demonstrates the glory of lsnes
Chrono Trigger (U) [!].sfc
md5sum:    a2bc447961e52fd2227baed164f729dc                                  Chrono Trigger (U) [!].sfc
sha1sum:   de5822f4f2f7a55acb8926d4c0eaa63d5d989312                          Chrono Trigger (U) [!].sfc
sha256sum: 06d1c2b06b716052c5596aaa0c2e5632a027fee1a9a28439e509f813c30829a9  Chrono Trigger (U) [!].sfc

Tricks and glitches

Loading corrupted save data

The game writes hash checksums upon saving; if the checksums don't match, the save(s) will be unloadable and displayed as empty.
Howewer, due to an oversight, it is possible to bypass this check and load corrupted save data by pressing Up+A on the save load screen.

Detailed commentary

Millennia Fair

Marle is picked up. If the Imp's house is entered without her in the party, the game will crash.

Zenan Bridge R1

The game is saved twice to set up save corruption at a later time.

Guardia Continent, Eastern Nebula

The position value 1F3E is partially overwritten with the party's current position, 4A50, resulting in the position 4A3E being stored in SRAM.

Guardia Continent, Imp's House

If Marle isn't in the party when entering this area, the game will crash.

The End of Time

The game is saved on a save point, resulting in the corresponding flag being set in SRAM. The subframe reset here is just for show - allowing the save to complete would yield equivalent results.

Zenan Bridge R2

The Zenan Bridge save is loaded. The game is then saved over the End of Time save and interrupted after the location values are written but before the save point flag is removed. This allows us to save anywhere.

Zenan Bridge R3

The game is saved on Zenan Bridge, resulting in a save file with a location value of 2000. We then exit the area and reset while the location value F001 is being written to the save file, resulting in SRAM containing the location F000.

Nu Ending

The location value F000 corresponds to the Nu ending, so the run ends when the save is loaded. Since triggering the ending in this manner wasn't intended, glitched graphics are briefly shown.

Special thanks to

  • inichi: for demonstrating the concept and making the extremely fabulous published runs.
  • Ilari: for making lsnes and helping with emulator usage and Lua scripting.

About obsoletions

The published any% and NG+ movies both abuse save corruption. This run is faster than both; obsoleting both of them seems to make the most sense.

Suggested screenshots

TBA

Nach: Reje... er... Judging.

turska: Replaced movie file. The new movie file is 46 frames faster.

turska: Replaced movie file once more. The new movie file is 12 frames faster.

Nach: I had a lot to consider in judging this run, the acceptability, the entertainment, the star issue, single or double obsoletion, and so on.
This run is clearly faster, made with a better emulator, and more real than the last run. Under these conditions, this run should be accepted to obsolete the current normal run. However this run is nowhere near as entertaining, so should it still obsolete it or not?
I watched the previous run a few times, my first reaction upon seeing it was that it was amazing and very entertaining, the second time was quite interesting too. On a third watch however, I found that the novelty wore off and the run wasn't all that entertaining. Since both these runs are about abusing SRAM, I'm accepting this run to obsolete the previous run, however, since there is very little entertainment in this run compared to the previous, it should be published without a star, a moon would be fine though.
Regarding the New Game+ obsoletion, I've mulled over it for a few days. It is loaded with a very pre-abused SRAM file. Technically, this current run here can also be loaded with a pre-abused file and cut the time down to mere few seconds. I find that pre-abusing a file sort of misses out on the point, and really is not deserving of a record. Since the main point of NG+ is to either show off new things in the game that can't be accessed otherwise, or beat the game significantly faster thanks to higher stats at the start, and the current NG+ run doesn't do the former, and it loses for the latter, I'm accepting this run to obsolete the NG+ as well.
Despite this double obsoletion for an abusing SRAM category, I think this site deserves a non abused version of CT and CT NG+, and I hope TASers will try to fill in these categories.


Joined: 2/12/2008
Posts: 67
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
mklip2001 wrote:
If this is published, we could always make a link back to the currently-published 20-minute movie. It would be similar to what we've done with Super Mario 64, where that publication has a link to the latest 16-star run (to my current knowledge). Just because a movie is obsoleted doesn't mean it goes away... sure, it has diminished visibility, but the people who are really interested in Chrono Trigger will probably look through submission comments anyway and would check out interesting links.
I like this idea. We could also encourage a true playaround to be published in the future.
Sir_VG
He/Him
Player (40)
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1914
Location: Floating Tower
While I don't agree with grassini's choice of words, I do agree with the principle point of his post. Entertainment doesn't have to be Michael Bay esqe in like every movie must have tons of explosions and guns shooting and such. A good movie can have all that, tons of dialogue, or even neither of those. The best movies are the ones that make you wonder, dream, and think. That is what true entertainment is about. And that's why I vote YES on this movie. Again and again.
Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing
Joined: 5/22/2011
Posts: 22
Screw any of the arguments, when the credits rolled on this run I laughed out loud before picking the mashed fragments of my mind up off the floor. Yes, a thousand times yes.
creaothceann
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 4/7/2005
Posts: 1874
Location: Germany
Glitcher wrote:
[...] it's about reaching the end as fast as possible by any means possible. This run beats the previous one by around twenty minutes, end of story! [...] The Pokémon Red/Blue run also uses memory corruption and is even shorter than this one! All we see is Red walking out of his house into the hall of fame, yet that run got acclaimed by the community.
Just an idea I had: The goal in Chrono Trigger is to prevent the destruction of (life as we know it on) Earth by Lavos. So simply displaying the credits sequence isn't finishing the game, it's just similar to the game freezing and a dialog box ("You've won the game!") popping up that can't be deactivated, halting the game in a dead end. In this case the goal is to defeat Lavos "as fast as possible by any means possible".
BigBoct
He/Him
Editor, Former player
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
Glitcher wrote:
CoolKirby wrote:
Though I'm not sure how I feel about this being the only current published Chrono Trigger run on the site (all others would be obsoleted). Could this could be published as a "glitched" category and the long any% run could be published again?
That's ridiculous! The previous run uses the same type of memory corruption as this one. There is no logical reason why this would be in a "glitched" category and not that one. We have enough arbitrary categories as they are, especially with something as absurd as Super Mario 64's "70 star backjump-less" run. This isn't a playaround for pure entertainment, it's about reaching the end as fast as possible by any means possible. This run beats the previous one by around twenty minutes, end of story!
He means hero of the day's 3:52:XX.XX any% run, from before we started doing save data corruption. That run is damn out of date, though. inichi did a test-run about an hour quicker, but declined to submit it; I think the best solution would be to link to that run in the publication text for this one, if it's published.
And really, I'm disgusted at everyone who voted No simply because this wasn't entertaining enough. The Pokémon Red/Blue run also uses memory corruption and is even shorter than this one! All we see is Red walking out of his house into the hall of fame, yet that run got acclaimed by the community. How do you explain that then?
Get your facts straight. Neither the Pokemon Red run, nor the Blue run it obsoleted, warp straight to the end of the game. That's what the Yellow run does, and it is published alongside the Red run. Glitcher, you're incredibly confrontational and abusive. What in the world is your issue? I honestly don't get it. As for the NewGame+ run, it's a whole different category from this, although considering that it also uses save corruption, I would imagine that it's also invalid for the same reason adelikat posted earlier.
Previous Name: boct1584
Joined: 4/5/2011
Posts: 61
Hmmm. Nobody seemed to have mentioned this SMW run: http://tasvideos.org/1945M.html This is the exact same idea of corruption for early credits, no? Albeit that run was a riot, and I think I cried from laughter. I like this one because CT is one of the greatest RPGs, and to see it broken was great. I was entertained, despite the world being saved through pacifism, hahah.
BigBoct
He/Him
Editor, Former player
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
It's not quite the same. The glitched SMW run corrupts memory, not save data. I think most of the arguments against publication is that despite being a much better technical achievement than the published run, it's a serious drop in terms of entertainment. I didn't crack a smile at this one at all, whereas the published run had me laughing hysterically the whole time.
Previous Name: boct1584
Editor, Skilled player (1203)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
I will attempt to place the comparison of the two runs in some perspective. Well, my perspective, but I'm sure you can guess what I mean. The 20 minute glitched run aims to beat the game as soon as possible, using an SRAM corrupting mid-save reset. Through use of an improved set of tools (lsnes), an exact timing of this reset can be chosen. This run, having the same goal as the 20 minute run as pointed out, gets through much quicker due to an evolution in emulation. By all technical standards, this run should obsolete the old one. Better emulation (in theory), faster time, and equivalent goals (primary goal being speed, and allowing SRAM corruption). What here says not to? On the other hand, the 20 minute run shows more of the game, more numerous apparently senseless actions, and the wafers of the known game universe being blasted through. A lot is seen, the unexpected and nonsensical is frequent, and there's enough intact that the unengaged viewer might know what should happen, or at least what shouldn't be. This new run goes through very little of the game, and the grand mess of the 20 minute run is entirely absent. By most artistic standards (or at least my artistic standards, considering how subjective it is), so little is offered by this run, that compared to the older run, looks like a largely uneventful morning stroll. Sure, I still enjoyed watching it, but it had nothing like the old run. The technical and the artistic have rarely been in conflict, but this run, and the presence of the older 20 minute run, puts the two squarely on opposing sides. Probably why there's a few pages of debate all of a sudden. If we had something like lsnes back then, and the submitted run was this one, then it would likely be published. Without the technical reason pushing for it, no one would have sought to produce the 20 minute glitchfest. And honestly, I believe artistic TASes are rare. That is, one that aims more for artistry than speed. Yes, the glitchfest did aim for speed as a primary goal, but it has lost in that goal with this run now submitted. This leaves only the art it provides, and I would hate to see that obsoleted by this run, as this has almost none of it. So, obsoletion? No, not without an accompanying run that provides equal or better quality entertainment, even at cost of speed. We now have the speed to beat the run. We don't have a fascinating enough run to beat the entertainment side, however. Even so, the fact remains: This run has incredible speed. The goal is the same as before, there's a clear way to obsolete it (go faster... If that's possible), and on its own, is still entertaining. We also have another published movie that glitches straight to the end screen, forget the final boss or even the credits. To reject this one would fly in the face of another movie's acceptance. The difference between corruption of RAM or SRAM in the Super Mario World run and this one is only technical, and not what most viewers would pay attention to. Acceptance? Yes. An example of speed at all costs, but still not a boring run to watch. The flavorful 20 minute run may make this one feel bland, but anything that bright would make other stuff look dim. There's probably a few problems that do crop up from my thoughts, though. For one thing, how do you obsolete entertainment? What entertainment run could beat the 20 minute run without a significant number of people disagreeing? Does the order they're even submitted in become important (would there be a bias towards the earlier submitted run, for example)? I say it is possible to obsolete entertainment, but it is difficult to do so. If it were so easy, a far larger portion of the published movies here would be silly movies for entertainment's sake rather than speed. At least, that is my belief. How does one obsolete entertainment? I say again, it is difficult, and I can't really say I know how. Just that I believe it's possible. Even so, the old run invokes a number of glitches only possible with SRAM corruption. I still want to see the numerous visible glitches in some run, so the only room I see left for that would be in a playaround. Another problem is categorization of these runs. The glitchfest may be placed in a different category, perhaps a playaround, but the fact remains that it wasn't originally intended to be just a playaround. In fact, the goals of each run are similar, if not identical. Regardless, it does have enough quirks that it is as good as any other playaround, by my thoughts. Regardless of the intention of each run, the results really differentiate the two. Both should stand. You probably can't easily tell they have the same goal by watching the two runs. Finally, we'd break the site's (TASVideos) structure by having one movie taking two movies to obsolete it. There are publications that obsolete more than one movie, but no publication that took more than one movie to obsolete it. Should a better playaround come along, should it be the one to obsolete the 20 minute run, or should this movie do it? These are my lengthy thoughts. I'm sure there are still plenty that disagree with my sentiments, but I wanted to give the greatest clarity that I can give about the situation I see and what I would like to see from this situation.
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
FatRatKnight wrote:
Finally, we'd break the site's (TASVideos) structure by having one movie taking two movies to obsolete it.
Well, not really. In case with Super Metroid, there was once an any% that aimed for in-game time that was the fastest available run. Then an any% aimed for realtime came along and obsoleted it. Then a new any% aiming for in-game time was submitted, and published alongside it as a different category. Then a glitched low% that was also the fastest run at the time, both by in-game and realtime metrics, was submitted and yet again published alongside, with the "long" any% runs being treated pretty much as playarounds/low-glitch runs. That being said, I'm undecided on the matter. Right now I'd rather see a complete glitched run without the corruption, but then again it might not be quite as entertaining as I expect it to be. This submission should definitely be published though, one way or another. I enjoyed the 20-minute one, but I wouldn't really watch it twice either.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Player (26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
Well, we also have a Kirby run that jumps straight to the extro sequence from the middle of some level. So this strikes me as a valid method for TAS'ing.
Joined: 2/14/2012
Posts: 73
My feelings are as follows: 1) I don't personally care for the movies of runs using save corruption/using reset as an input in games other than X-Men for the Genesis, but there is a large amount of precedent for accepting them on this site that I can't ignore. 2) This is a technically impressive example of using precise input to break the game wide open, and the current published category is already listed as "glitched" so this run should be published. The existing run obviously still exists as obsoleted, and can be linked back to/found on youtube/etc. 3) Seeing the game broken like this makes me think there's a big opportunity for someone to produce a proper any% run to submit for publication. Something in the vein of the two Earthbound runs or the various 1st-gen Pokemon runs, at least. Therefore, vorting yes.
Joined: 11/18/2007
Posts: 1
Location: New Zealand
It's a shame to see a technically accomplished and entertaining movie obseleted by a movie that is merely technically accomplished. I don't envy the judges. For the sake of consistency, and to avoid setting any precedent that may cause confusion or indecision in the future, I feel this movie should be published and obsolete the current publication.
creaothceann
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 4/7/2005
Posts: 1874
Location: Germany
Maybe let each user create his/her own "favorite TASes for game X" lists that can be easily viewed, and compute the site's overall lists? Disregard users that haven't logged in for a while (or scale down their influence in the computation) to keep the lists updated.
Editor, Expert player (2480)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Great run. Voting yes. Also, voting to obsolete the current run. There's easily room for a lenghty playaround run too.
Joined: 4/23/2012
Posts: 7
At first, due to entertainment value, I felt inclined to abstain/vote meh. However, after reading through the thread and learning that the 20 minute run is invalid, I will vote yes.
Player (118)
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny
Wow. This was my favorite run on the site for a long time. I will vote yes. But I do miss Lavos healing himself for 0 damage, then Dying.
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
Joined: 1/26/2009
Posts: 558
Location: Canada - Québec
Corrupting data while saving is such a cheap technique. Since this is probably gonna be accepted, I just hope to see one day a more legit/improved run on the DS port, or something like that.
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Many of the DS TASes we have abuse corruption techniques by the boatloads, owing it to the simple fact that DS has a lid. If anything, I would expect even more breakage in a DS version of any SNES game.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
BigBoct
He/Him
Editor, Former player
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
Unfortunately, I think this movie is destined for publication no matter what, since the published movie is invalid, as adelikat has said, so I imagine the judges are scrambling to replace it. Which is a damn shame; as many have said, the published movie is damn funny.
Previous Name: boct1584
Joined: 3/20/2011
Posts: 4
"Entertainment" seems to be a nice tool for those who are hell-bent on keeping cool runs off the site lately
BigBoct
He/Him
Editor, Former player
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
Have you seen the published run? Explain to me how that run is less entertaining, or equally entertaining, as this one. TASVideos is not all about speed. It's about doing cool stuff.
Previous Name: boct1584
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
We need a forgoes save data corruption version of this run. (That run category officially exists, so there's no reason to not to make such a version.)
Joined: 4/3/2005
Posts: 575
Location: Spain
The problem is that the published TAS is brilliant precisely because of data corruption. A run that doesn't corrupt save data will be far less entertaining than it.
No.
Former player
Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 1107
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
I don't see the problem here. Just obsolete the currently published "glitched" run with this one, but keep the "NG+" one, because thats a different category. And to those who don't like save corruption: Make a new any% which doesn't use it! SMW is a good example that such runs do get accepted here. But please, don't start a "corrupts save data, but only mildly" type of run. Either use a specific trick to the max, or don't use it at all.
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Skilled player (1743)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4986
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
andypanther wrote:
But please, don't start a "corrupts save data, but only mildly" type of run. Either use a specific trick to the max, or don't use it at all.
You mean like a "low glitch" run?