Submission Text Full Submission Page
This is my improvement to my viral yet controversial run in which I attempted to get the Minimum Presses in Super Mario Bros. This is the 8th attempt at this feat, this time completing the game in 05:48.04 and 142 presses, a 3 press improvement.

Game Objectives

  • Emulator used: FCEUX 2.1.5
  • Attempts to complete the game with the least amount of button presses possible
  • Avoids wasting time
  • Aims to maximize score / kills without jeopardizing the above goals
  • Takes damage to save presses
  • Heavy luck manipulation

The Run

See this section of my previous submission for details on the majority of the run that went unchanged.

Changes

1-1: 13 presses (-1).

andrewg reminded me that I could have Mario stop in his tracks by holding down. As such, it became apparent that you can wait for the Goombas to move out of the way if you continue to hold down after going down the pipe. This saves one press.

8-2: 16 presses (-1).

Perfect enemy manipulation allows me to use one jump instead of two during the section before the final stairs. This requires two Bullet Bills. Room for error? There is none: after moving past the pipe, the jump must start and end at an exact frame or the trick will not work. I attempt to move past the pipe at the earliest time that allows me to both land on the second Bill and propel myself off of the final Koopa. This the one press I previously needed to jump past the second to last set of stairs.

8-3: 13 presses (0).

Because the enemies move based on a global timer, I had to do a lot of work in TASEdit to fix this stage. During this process, I realized that it's possible to make the second grounded Hammer Bros. deactivate if I pass it at the wrong time. This makes it impossible to manipulate the final grounded Hammer Bro, so this was avoided.

8-4: 26 presses (-1).

andrewg pointed out that I could hold A after exiting the pipe in the water section and avoid pressing A again to swim. In order to pull this off, I had to hold down earlier on to slow down enough to land in the pipe with a full jump. This saves one press.

Lua Script

See this section of my previous submission for details on the Lua script used to display the input in the encode.

Special Thanks

Thanks to andrewg for his improvements in 1-1 and 8-4. Again, thanks to FractalFusion for creating this amazing Lua script. I also would like to thank him, along with MUGG, for creating some of the previous MP TASes of this game. Finally, thanks to LexSfX for helping out with encoding.

adelikat: Claimed for judging

DarkKobold: Agreed with adelikat, Taking over judging.

DarkKobold: Sadly, there was cheating involved with this submission. Thus, 3 yes votes should be removed from the voting.

DarkKobold: In general, these runs would be rejected on feedback alone. However, I believe that a decision is required on the minimum presses category in general. To not belabor this any longer, these types of runs just don't fit with the publications on the site. A TAS should be able to stand on its own merits. This category requires a script to evaluate the number of presses, a DDR-style output to show the buttons, and etc.
That said, there are plenty of forums out there that have their own side competitions outside the publication of the site. BrandonE has set up a page to track these minimum press runs. I am all for that. However, I don't believe that this category merits a publication on the standard site.
Also, while a technical challenge, I don't believe it produces interesting movies. It has been compared to "No B" run of SMB. However, it is easy for the audience to identify with the concept of not hitting B. It is fundamental to the gameplay. No one playing SMB counts the number of times they press a button while playing the game, or the number of jumps they make, and etc. These super technical categories don't really fit with the aims of the site.
CoolHandMike: Unrejecting for re-judging based on new rules.
CoolHandMike: New rules remove entertainment requirements for movies. While looking at this movie saw that this [6209] GBA Rhythm Tengoku "minimum presses" by yamalpaca0412 in 1:24:41.88 was accepted which has the same idea as this movie. To keep the goal similar in name I renamed this one to "minimum presses" as well. This tas does keep the presses down to a minimum as far as I can tell. Was able to get this movie to sync on the newer FCEUX 2.2.3.
Accepting to Alternative with goal "minimum presses".
Interesting tas!
fsvgm777: Processing. McBobX is handling the encodes for this one.


Player (146)
Joined: 7/16/2009
Posts: 686
Sorry scrimpy. But as you say, there's no name that'll properly explain the categories (that's not also a full sentence) so you're gonna have to explain them to new people anyway, and for people who already know what the categories are, "minimum presses" and "minimum holds" suffice to differentiate the two.
Editor, Expert player (2372)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3940
Location: Germany
I'd call it "minimum button presses" if it were up to me.
Brandon
He/Him
Editor, Player (191)
Joined: 11/21/2010
Posts: 914
Location: Tennessee
Scepheo wrote:
Sorry scrimpy. But as you say, there's no name that'll properly explain the categories (that's not also a full sentence) so you're gonna have to explain them to new people anyway, and for people who already know what the categories are, "minimum presses" and "minimum holds" suffice to differentiate the two.
But then the question is whether or not my alternatives are at least MORE descriptive. Like, "minimum buttons recorded" may not be completely clear, but it at least makes sense.
MUGG wrote:
I'd call it "minimum button presses" if it were up to me.
But I want the two to be consistent, and I don't think "minimum button records" makes as much sense as "minimum buttons recorded".
All the best, Brandon Evans
Personman
Other
Joined: 4/20/2008
Posts: 465
From an information theory perspective, we could call them "minimum edges" and "maximum silence" :D EDIT: Except we don't actually count edges, right? I remember we argued about it for years. If we don't, we could go with "minimum rising edges".
A warb degombs the brangy. Your gitch zanks and leils the warb.
Joined: 10/14/2007
Posts: 5
Personman wrote:
From an information theory perspective, we could call them "minimum edges" and "maximum silence" :D EDIT: Except we don't actually count edges, right? I remember we argued about it for years. If we don't, we could go with "minimum rising edges".
This idea makes me smile. Also, happy "anniversary" here at the forums (as indicated by your join date).
Personman
Other
Joined: 4/20/2008
Posts: 465
Hey, so it is! Neat. I'll have to remember to be like, "I know! It's my TASVideos cake day!" whenever anyone says anything excited about 4/20.
A warb degombs the brangy. Your gitch zanks and leils the warb.
Brandon
He/Him
Editor, Player (191)
Joined: 11/21/2010
Posts: 914
Location: Tennessee
It seems there still isn't a consensus. This frustrates me. I thought "minimum buttons recorded" was perfect, but that really describes the storage mechanism and not the action being taken. I then thought about using "minimum buttons polled", but then what of subframes? Lag frames? I'm not sure I know the terminology well enough to come up with a good name. Help! Edit: OK, it's settled: "minimum buttons pressed", "minimum buttons inputted". This is descriptive enough. I'm done thinking about this. Also, DarkKobold mentions that there's apparently been 3 fraudulent yes votes on this submission. I want to make it clear that I had nothing to do with this. I didn't even vote on it. Whoever did in fact do this should know that this does not in any way help the submission. Don't do this again.
All the best, Brandon Evans
Joined: 5/2/2009
Posts: 656
In that case, I'll drop a (albeit a weak) yes vote here. It's a clever run, but I can see one not liking it. That's not my case, I really enjoyed.
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =) (ノಥ益ಥ)ノ
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4038
Brandon wrote:
Also, DarkKobold mentions that there's apparently been 3 fraudulent yes votes on this submission. I want to make it clear that I had nothing to do with this. I didn't even vote on it. Whoever did in fact do this should know that this does not in any way help the submission. Don't do this again.
What exactly is a "fraudulent yes vote"? Does that mean someone made a script or three additional accounts to vote Yes three times?
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
If they made the additional accounts they'd have to have each account make 5 posts, too, before they could vote. I suppose you could make 15 non-spammy posts in advance, and effectively have vote-capable lurker accounts, but it seems like a lot of effort to go to to influence a voting system that the judges rarely need to pay much attention to. The other alternative I can think of is that someone found an exploit in the voting system that let them record multiple votes.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
Minimum Buttons Pressed sounds very obvious to me. Any time button is pushed into its socket, that counts as +1. Not more complicated than that. But I don't even know what Minimum Buttons Inputted would mean. Is it +1 for every button that is considered pushed in for every frame that it is pushed in? If so, I think a name like "Minimum Button Hold Time" conveys that idea better. Kinda a mouthful, though. Anyway, voted yes.
Brandon
He/Him
Editor, Player (191)
Joined: 11/21/2010
Posts: 914
Location: Tennessee
bkDJ wrote:
But I don't even know what Minimum Buttons Inputted would mean. Is it +1 for every button that is considered pushed in for every frame that it is pushed in? If so, I think a name like "Minimum Button Hold Time" conveys that idea better. Kinda a mouthful, though.
That's what it means, yes. I think inputted is more clear because you're inputting a button for every frame you hold it. Hold time could be ambiguous in that it might mean "shortest hold time" as well...so although I guess "Minimum Total Button Hold Time" might be a fairly descriptive name, I think Minimum Buttons Inputted is descriptive and concise enough to get by with, and it's certainly easier to figure out than "Minimum Holds".
All the best, Brandon Evans
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
Brandon wrote:
it's certainly easier to figure out than "Minimum Holds".
oh, for sure. "Minimum holds" is horrible because it can be interpreted 3 different ways where 2 of them give the same score as Minimum Presses anyway. So I guess Minimum Button Inputs or whatever is ok, but I still think MTBHT leaves fewer ambiguities Also, to thoroughly overthink this: I guess it depends on whether you show number as an integer represented by...
int totalinputs = 0;
foreach (frame f in frames)
    totalinputs += f.numButtonsDown();
...or if you divided that by frames-per-second and used a time instead. and should lag frames be weighted? Oh jeez, now I don't want to think about this anymore either. :P
Joined: 8/31/2011
Posts: 11
Voting yes. I was unconvinced at first, but by the end of the movie I was finding it pretty entertaining. "minimum buttons pressed" is perfectly descriptive enough for this category. For the other category, you could also consider "minimum button input".
Joined: 2/17/2012
Posts: 10
Not a fan of this category; it doesn't do anything for me.
Joined: 5/3/2012
Posts: 29
would "button-frame" be a good alternative term?
Brandon
He/Him
Editor, Player (191)
Joined: 11/21/2010
Posts: 914
Location: Tennessee
TheNewTeddy wrote:
would "button-frame" be a good alternative term?
Nah. One day, we might have the ability to input sub-frames.
All the best, Brandon Evans
Joined: 5/3/2012
Posts: 29
I voted yes. I didn't realize I could vote yes :P Anyway, I find this fascinating, and it could open up an entire new way challenge for TASing. Also, how about Button Holds VS Button Inputs?
Brandon
He/Him
Editor, Player (191)
Joined: 11/21/2010
Posts: 914
Location: Tennessee
I think the terms we have now work. No need to change them endlessly if they are at least somewhat descriptive of the goal and not overly confusing.
All the best, Brandon Evans
Experienced player (788)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1807
Location: Brasil
this should replace the walkathon if it does get accepted.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 98
I vote yes. I've also wondered what it would be like if you were to try to beat it while always holding down the left button...
Editor, Expert player (2080)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3284
By always holding down the left button, it becomes a walkathon with moonwalking, probably similar to the published walkathon we have, except that Mario is always facing left.
BigBoct
He/Him
Editor, Former player
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
At best, it would end in 8-4 at the water section; you can't enter a horizontal pipe while holding Left.
Previous Name: boct1584
Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 98
I wasn't saying we should make one, I was just thinking it would be interesting... (because there are a few things that I feel would be a bit different) And also, I didn't realize you wouldn't be able to get in the pipe.
AnS
Emulator Coder, Experienced player (728)
Joined: 2/23/2006
Posts: 682
As much as I eager for innovations in TASing, I have to admit not all ideas produce decent results, at least when applied to SMB. Maybe there are games where an MP run would look impressive, but for SMB/SMB3 it looks more like pre-frame advance era TAS. This particular idea comes from abusing current format of TASes (being sequences of button states). Note that "abusing" is positive term here. But unlike other original ideas (pacifist runs, walkathons, multigame TASes) that put restrictions on gameplay, this idea doesn't alter gameplay and doesn't make sense outside TASVideos. And I mean today's TASVideos, because someday we might as well change format of movies (like storing replays as events, or storing input as snapshots of player's behaviour), so this kind of restriction would become even more unnatural. Anyway, if it was an interesting TAS, I wouldn't overanalyze all the matter and would agree with artificial self-imposed rules, but since the movie was pretty boring, I have to rationalize my No vote.