Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
What the hell happened in Spring Yard 3?
Great job guys! I would really love to see someone do a fully optimised run of this some time. (And I'm sure you don't need that buzzbomber earlier in SY3, you can go over the bumper, which would make the overall pacing of the run much better.)
What the hell happened in Spring Yard 3?
Great job guys! I would really love to see someone do a fully optimised run of this some time. (And I'm sure you don't need that buzzbomber earlier in SY3, you can go over the bumper, which would make the overall pacing of the run much better.)
What do you mean exactly by "what happened"? THe first part is kinda like in the TAS just with the shield on.
And as for the second bumber - there isn't a way to get through it as in the begining of the second act. In the second act there was a red spring which gives you a lot of speed which is needed to successfully go above the bumper. And as for both ending of act 2 and the middle of third one nothing can be used to gain that much speed.
We also know that it's possible to glitch one's way through that place using big orange boxes. This way it was made in the TAS, but our goal was to use a little zips as possible and only go for it if it is essential.
Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
What, and the shooting up a ramp from zero speed near the end didn't even register on your list of unusual happenings? :)
I had forgotten about the lack of speed in SY3 though (last time I did the levels under this condition was with Knuckles, after all) but I still feel like there has to be a better way than luring that bastard over for a minute, if for no other reason than I really don't like the idea of taking damage in these challenges, since the whole point of not collecting rings is that you can't take a hit. :/
I do like the goal of not using the zips if you can help it, though. That was one of my goals too and I think it makes for a better watch.
Joined: 10/30/2011
Posts: 146
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Using no zips is a good goal, because they usually take away part of the entertainment, but in SY3 I think the zip is way more entertaining than the utterly long wait for that enemy.
Using no zips is a good goal, because they usually take away part of the entertainment, but in SY3 I think the zip is way more entertaining than the utterly long wait for that enemy.
I found the SY3 long setup absolutely hilarious, in fact. Mainly because I thought he was going to use the enemy to bounce, then he did something completely unexpected with it.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1697
Location: RU · ID · AM
Aglar wrote:
Nice, seems so obvious now. The TAS is now in quite big need of an update.
I beleive that TAS community (or at least Sonic TAS community) can use moderated version control (like Subversion, git, etc) instead of current publication system. When someone improves some level, he proposes his patch to the run (in case if it doesn’t break the syncronization), and the moderator accepts or rejects the modification (or adds a short pause to force syncronization). This of course allows to redo entire run as well, as you understand.
If TASvideos cannot make that ability for use, we can found our own subproject within TASvideos community, like Mortal Combat TASers already did. And send our updated runs to TASvideos from time to time. I have enough resources to host some VCS and forum, if someone wonders, but I do not mind if anyone else makes it.
This is just an idea.
P.S.: Sonic 1 now looks not so less glitchy as Sonic 3, like it looked a few years ago, doesn’t it? :)
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Using no zips is a good goal, because they usually take away part of the entertainment, but in SY3 I think the zip is way more entertaining than the utterly long wait for that enemy.
I found the SY3 long setup absolutely hilarious, in fact. Mainly because I thought he was going to use the enemy to bounce, then he did something completely unexpected with it.
Well the fact that a shield was picked up kinda gave away that a hit would be taken.
And i think, while the luring was definitely clever, that in this case the no getting hit goal should have priority over the minimal zip goal.
Using no zips is a good goal, because they usually take away part of the entertainment, but in SY3 I think the zip is way more entertaining than the utterly long wait for that enemy.
I found the SY3 long setup absolutely hilarious, in fact. Mainly because I thought he was going to use the enemy to bounce, then he did something completely unexpected with it.
Well the fact that a shield was picked up kinda gave away that a hit would be taken.
And i think, while the luring was definitely clever, that in this case the no getting hit goal should have priority over the minimal zip goal.
We've never had a "no-hit" goal. The only goals we had were: "Never pick up any ring and never destroy a super ring monitor" and "Using zips when there's no other way to avoid rings".
It's exactly because sometimes it takes very precise and clever maneuvering with either shields or enemies or both. I know that it's faster with zips, but when I recorded that part (and yeah, thanks to WST, who actually knows that I'm a girl) I just wanted to see if there's any possibility at all not use a zip. And we thought that through in all the situations.
And anyone, who watched our S3&K ringless run should probably know that sometimes one needs very tricky shield manipulations to avoid rings.
btw, we're working on SonicCD ringless run for now.
Just watched the ringless run and it was pretty amazing.
SLZ2 can be crossed without any zips though: it's easy to jump over the first two loops even in real time as shown here.
I hate you. <_< you beat my "perfect" score by 200 points.
no, wait... I take that back. I LOVE you. This brings back one of the main reason I started my s1 score TAS. to show that none of the score records on the soniccenter are perfect :D
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1697
Location: RU · ID · AM
Ringless pacifist? Lol :)
The only thing I wanna say about it is that I did not really enjoy watching those runs. Tool assistance precision gives ability to make gameplay process a lot more enjoyable to watch. Instead of waiting in the end he could do something better — exploring the level, for example.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
I don't know how to use emulators for tas stuff, I was trying to view inputs but I'm oblivious to all this tas stuff. I was wondering if one of you fine sonic tasers could explain how the spring yard 3 tricks are done. I can clip into the wall and then fall to where you being to zip, but after that I'm stumped.
Also, the green hill 2 level wrap confuses me greatly; even on emulator doing the same inputs it varies whether I get it or not. Is there some subpixels or other technobabble going on?
I know the scrap brain 3 zip is based on subpixels, but what I'm not sure of is exactly how it is done. I try to do a full stop on the right most part of the moving platform, but I'm not sure if this is the proper method.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1697
Location: RU · ID · AM
In GHZ act 2 you have to make your Y-pixel position high enough in order not to die. It's the most easy to do with Knuckles, because he can abuse gravity glitch and remain in air after the horizontal underflow, as it's shown in Qwerty's run. When using a character that cannot abuse gravity glitch, like Sonic, you have to enter the tube (while being off screen) and then find the best frame to start moving right. Note that you may get killed by lower level boundary there (this is what probably happens with you).
To be able to see your exact pixel and subpixel position, use RAM watch. To be able too see yourself when being offscreen, use camera hack.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Ok, that really helped my understand of why I always die when the screen rises. I've found a lot of variance for when you want to hold right/left depending on where you start the zip. Is there any consistent way to rta this?
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1697
Location: RU · ID · AM
Naegleria wrote:
Ok, that really helped my understand of why I always die when the screen rises. I've found a lot of variance for when you want to hold right/left depending on where you start the zip. Is there any consistent way to rta this?
The best way to understand how the things are done, is to watch some existing run using frame advance. Start your Gens (with the camera hack), open the gmv and watch the run very slowly and carefully by pressing frame advance key to advance further and further. Camera hack is very important part of your success — without it you are not able to see yourself while being offscreen.
Finding the best frame to start moving basically is all about try-and-fail.
And yes, as you may have noticed, TASing Sonic games involves a LOT of knowledge. You should know about subpixels, camera bevavior, speed cap, wall and sprite ejection. And the best way to learn it is watching and trying to do the same. This page may also help you, as well as this topic.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
The camerahack gens was very informative. I've noticed that when you do the level wrap, you may zip a little further to the left, which makes the distance between you and the tubes significantly different. For a tas this would not be too much of a problem, but for a real time speedrun it makes it a nightmare. I'm starting to think a real time friendly way of doing this would not be consistent at all.
As for the Scrap Brain 3 zip, or the Spring Yard 3 zip, any chance those are less of a nightmare?
