Posted: 10/18/2012 12:59 AM
(Edited: 10/18/2012 3:35 PM)
Post subject: Emulator timing (FCEUX/Nintendulator/Bizhawk)
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Pasky13
Former player
Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland
Here's a 10 minute clip of NG II looping the intro. I decided to capture Nintendulator because it has a reputation of being one of the most accurate NES emulators out there. Link to video
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Posted: 10/18/2012 1:01 AM
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ventuz
He/Him
Player (123)
Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940
I can't see bottom parts?
Posted: 10/18/2012 1:02 AM
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Pasky13
Former player
Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland
Ya, I made a mistake, I'll re-do when I get back from class, if not tomorrow morning.
I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton
Posted: 10/18/2012 2:00 AM
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natt
Editor, Emulator Coder, Site Developer
Joined: 5/11/2011
Posts: 1108
Location: Murka
Pasky13 wrote:
fraps
GET ON MAH LEVEL Link to video (timestretched to 30fps)
Posted: 10/18/2012 2:56 AM
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OmegaWatcher
Joined: 5/2/2009
Posts: 656
why the color changes in nintendulator? is that more accurate? since mos people only played nes games with a analog TV, should it be a difference?
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =) (ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ
Posted: 10/18/2012 3:20 AM
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Pasky13
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Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland
Cool, so it was fraps.
I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton
Posted: 10/18/2012 3:21 AM
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zeromus
Editor, Emulator Coder
Joined: 8/7/2008
Posts: 1156
There's no such thing as accurate colors. bizhawk's defaults clone fceux's defaults intentionally, which were arbitrarily chosen.
Posted: 10/18/2012 3:59 AM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1236)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11268
Location: RU
NES TAS of 2011
Console output: http://ru.twitch.tv/sinisterwon/b/335951938
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 10/18/2012 3:35 PM
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Pasky13
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Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland
Made a new video.
I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton
Posted: 10/18/2012 5:38 PM
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fsvgm777
She/Her
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Two minor complaints: * Audio only comes out from the right side. * Nintendulator always outputs at 256x240, so you need to crop the top 8 and the bottom 8 pixels for NTSC games, which is as simple as Crop(0, 8, -0, -8) (or Crop(clip, 0, 8, -0, -8), where clip is the Nintendulator capture) in Avisynth. Other than that, nice comparison video.
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Posted: 10/18/2012 8:41 PM
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Pasky13
Former player
Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland
Agreed, I forgot to crop and noticed that after I uploaded. As far as audio...well that was from a real NES and....that's how a real nes works, it only has mono sound. I didn't split it into two channels.
I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton
Posted: 10/18/2012 9:05 PM
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creaothceann
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Editor
Joined: 4/7/2005
Posts: 1874
Location: Germany
Pasky13 wrote:
As far as audio...well that was from a real NES and....that's how a real nes works, it only has mono sound. I didn't split it into two channels.
Did you record in stereo? If so just use this: 
AudioDub(GetRightChannel)
Otherwise: 
MonoToStereo(GetRightChannel, GetRightChannel)
Posted: 10/18/2012 9:34 PM
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Pasky13
Former player
Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland
Thanks I'll try that.
I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton
Posted: 10/19/2012 1:03 AM
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Pasky13
Former player
Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland
Okay, I'm getting better at getting the quality right thanks to everyones help and suggestions. Time to test mapper #5. Castlevania III: Link to video
I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton
Posted: 10/19/2012 2:18 AM
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Dwedit
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Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 692
Location: Chicago
What exactly is the point of these comparisons? There's nothing significant that would cause the emulators to run at different speeds. Not at all like the SNES. The NES CPU and PPU are tightly pegged to each other, 3 dots drawn for every CPU cycle. There are a few obscure hardware quirks that will steal some extra CPU cycles unexpectedly (sometimes including CPU/PPU alignment, which is a random 1/3 factor on bootup) but they are still rare and far between. We're talking maybe up to 6 CPU cycles out of the 29780.66 cycles in a frame. Missing a few stolen cycles only really affects a system that is on the edge of executing too many instructions in a frame before it would lag, or it affects games that spin the RNG until a new frame arrives. It's not at all like other systems, where there are different memory speeds (cache, slow memory, fast memory, etc).
Posted: 10/19/2012 10:01 AM
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Pasky13
Former player
Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland
My own curiosity. You could tell me that until you're blue in the face and I won't believe it until I see it myself, I'm just sharing with others. If I had listened to that sort of advice (not saying you're wrong at all), I wouldn't have bothered with SNES after hearing countless people claim snes9x 1.51+ is accurate or even BSNES which desyncs on Megaman X2 intro and doesn't get the Yoshi's Island intro quite correct. Basically, I'm just wanting to see for myself and I'm quite pleased NES timing is very well done in all the latest emu's. It'd be interesting to see how nesticle and older NES emu's stacked up however.
I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton
Posted: 10/20/2012 4:32 PM
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Dwedit
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Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 692
Location: Chicago
Nesticle doesn't even get the 341/262 rule correct. LoopyNES should be okay though.
Posted: 10/30/2012 1:21 PM
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jlun2
Skilled player (1706)
Joined: 9/17/2009
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GBA TASer of 2010
I think a way to test out accuracy (sorta) is to see if console verified runs for the NES sync with BizHawk. Anyway, for BizHawk 1.1.0, the following console verified runs desync: http://tasvideos.org/1866M.html http://tasvideos.org/711M.html http://tasvideos.org/1014M.html http://tasvideos.org/209M.html http://tasvideos.org/412M.html http://tasvideos.org/825M.html http://tasvideos.org/1728M.html http://tasvideos.org/510M.html http://tasvideos.org/494M.html http://tasvideos.org/234M.html http://tasvideos.org/400M.html http://tasvideos.org/309M.html http://tasvideos.org/1724M.html http://tasvideos.org/1002M.html http://tasvideos.org/976M.html http://tasvideos.org/1746M.html http://tasvideos.org/960M.html http://tasvideos.org/1053M.html http://tasvideos.org/1590M.html So I suggest console verifying more runs so BizHawk's accuracy could be tested against the real console and (eventually) improved. Maybe a rewritable cartridge could be used to save money from buying all the Nes games?
LLCoolDave wrote:
This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.
Posted: 10/30/2012 1:43 PM
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Pasky13
Former player
Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland
Yes, I totally agree. This was not meant to be the deciding factor in accuracy, just merely my own curiosity of how emulators run (timing wise) versus the console running the same game. This probably isn't really an accurate way of doing it either because I'm capturing with a crappy dazzle. It's just a rough estimate really, haha.
I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton
Posted: 10/30/2012 7:33 PM
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Dwedit
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Joined: 3/24/2006
Posts: 692
Location: Chicago
The verification failures appear to be for an older version of Bizhawk. The DMC code got rewritten at some point.
Posted: 10/30/2012 7:40 PM
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jlun2
Skilled player (1706)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4952
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
GBA TASer of 2010
Dwedit wrote:
The verification failures appear to be for an older version of Bizhawk. The DMC code got rewritten at some point.
Wait, I'll redo the videos. Brb.
LLCoolDave wrote:
This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.