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Posted: 5/15/2005 12:41 AM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Thanks BoltR that could come in useful at the end of donut secret 1. Heres the update: Viper and I found out that you can fly through the first set of stairs in the ghost house. Viper made a video that does this quickly, making it a clear cut choice not to get the fire power in Iggy's castle. I started donut plains 1, and I got the get feather start fast flying part down. But I haven't done anything after that because I think it might be possible to fly over the top pipe to the key hole, but it is very difficult because you can't see and there are several obstacles up there that you will hit on your way. On top of that it isn't as simple as just try to stay as high as possible but let sink some of you hit something because there are 2 variables to vary, height and phase. It would be alot simpler if I could see, any advice? http://wam.umd.edu/~darreon/smw_/5b.smv Note entertainment will be spliced in on scrolling part of iggy's castle. Sorry viper for spamming a+b to select level here, I won't do it again, but did here because having to press a for text of level victory and save and stuff. Edit: something is weird According to those calculations it should be easy to fly high enough, but it is not, is there some sort of dimishing effect on flying or max height gain or something?
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 5/15/2005 7:36 AM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Finished donut plains -> http://wam.umd.edu/~darreon/smw_/5.smv I got an extra life so that is nice, not sure if its possible to get 2. I got kinda of lucky at the end: on my first attempt in mario's placement was correct. I should toy with this a little more because its likely a couple more frames could be dropped, although it is already 12 frames faster than Alex and 6 faster than Mazzic. I don't really understand what is up with the ending to this level. I land up there and the camera won't even try to focus on me, and apparently I have to stop fly or drop key or something for a frame other wise I'll be carrying the key past the keyhole and it won't recognize it. Further more I don't know why the colors all glitched in Mazzic's run, this is pretty cool, I don't think it saves any time though. Lastly the dreaded fadeout strikes again, 15 frame slower fadeout than Mazzic and Alex. So hopefully there will be an easy way to fix this, I'm going to sleep for now though. Oh yeah I have a cool idea that I will hex in later.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 5/15/2005 9:49 AM
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Mazzic
Joined: 8/31/2004
Posts: 298
Location: Falun, Sweden
That color glitch occures when you are able to activate the keyhole before the camera has moved high enoght. I don't know the requierments though, I simply flew up that hole, released the cape, grabed the key and ran up too the keyhole and Vóila, collor glitch. Btw. I love the work you've done so far. This run is going to be something special I think.
Bein' away for like five years, and not a single new post in the ZSNES forum... :'-(
Posted: 5/15/2005 5:13 PM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Cool, thanks. For some reason in mine the camera doesn't even try to move up, and it still doesn't glitch, no idea why.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 5/15/2005 6:26 PM
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Mazzic
Joined: 8/31/2004
Posts: 298
Location: Falun, Sweden
Try releasing your cape before yuo reach the key so you run for a while. That should do the trick.
Bein' away for like five years, and not a single new post in the ZSNES forum... :'-(
Posted: 5/16/2005 7:50 AM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Progress report: We finished donut plains, with fast fadeout but had to sacrifice the 1 up. There might be a way to get the best of both worlds, I tried for a good amount of time, but its hard to test things due to how difficult the ending is, and all this work would not save any frames. I started donut secret 1. Entered the first pipe 1 frame faster (compared to viper's thing). I entered the next pipe 2 frames faster (3 total). To be honest I do not know how I did this part faster, I think it has to do with how the game is weird and some frames are better to start pressing a direction, anyways I used A jump, but I don't think it matters, I didn't even try B jump because it was faster already. This room probably deserves a closer look. After that I got near the key hole but some how lost a few frames in the horizontal direction doing the drop shell and regrab rise. I don't know why, but in one simple test my horizontal speed differed based on when I dropped the shell, I think its another quirk. It does not have anything to do with that I pressed left for 1 frame before the fish, I tried going under this fish and not pressing left at all and the horizontal distance was the same. http://www.wam.umd.edu/~darreon/smw_/6b.smv Anyways. I have finals coming up this week so I need to study for and take them, I don't know how much I'll be able to play.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 5/16/2005 11:28 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
I improved Donut Secret 1 a little bit more: The first pipe was entered 1 frame faster - don't ask me why. Probably some reduced lag somewhere... Another 1 frame was won in the cave, I think it was because I lifted off 1 frame earlier In the next passage I was exactly as fast as in my old video that you referred to (pressing backward was not needed, I pressed forward all the time). Included the nice grab key+shell glitch. The fadeout was 2 frames faster than in my old video :) Another 2 frames were won during the fade-in for the ghost house - woohoo! I entered the door 4 frames faster than in my first flying-through-stairs test video. However I don't know if this is perfect yet. I had to press backwards for 13 frames before being able to fly through the stairs, maybe this can be reduced. I also couldn't lift off before the Eerie, so I had to duck-slide below him, which cost some time. I'm going to bed now, maybe you can improve it a little bit more? :) improved video up to 1st door in the ghost house (at this point we're already 213 frames faster than Alexis Neuhaus!)
Posted: 5/17/2005 6:57 AM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
I improved the ending of donut secret 1 by 5 frames and the beginning of donut secret house by 13 frames. Regretfully I do not have any more time to optimize donut secret house today due to exams, because I am sure it can be done even faster. I ran out of time so at the end just got to the door simply from the flying, but there has to be a better way. I think some frames you release the shell and regrab it are better than others for horizontal speed, to optimize end of the water level this is important but also to hold the shell for as long as possible between drops to get your horizontal speed back. I think you did a good job of this but somehow I hit the question box 2 frames sooner, and it might be this. Also at the end of the water level I found it faster by a very small amount (1-2 frames) to not use your shell+key glitch, instead I regrab the shell as soon as possible and start moving so that my speed is already up and then drop it and grab the key. However it might be possible to use the glitch and still get the same fadeout time, although I did get a good fadeout time (it saved 2 more). Now for the really cool stuff. I discovered some things about flying that you may not know. The first is that you can use forward button press anytime to convert to fast flying, it doesn't have to be during lift off or a swoop. This also leads to the first use (that I know of) for pressing both backwards and forwards at the same time. Now you can convert to fast flying while lifting holding back. I noticed that initially holding forward to swoop actually lifts you higher than holding backwards (in the smv I just uploaded if you hold forward right after going through the stairs you hit the ghost but if you hold back you won't). I think there could be a hybrid method for flying that can gain more altitude than normal by switching between fast flying and not fast flying, possibly even swooping. It would definitly be slightly slower but there are some instances when you need the height. I don't have time to figure it out yet but I suspect it might be something like fast fly the rising motion slow fly the lowering motion. Anyways I think this stuff could be put to some really good use. In the ghost house I fly through the stairs but switch to fast flying as soon as I can. Then I swoop a little (probably not needed) and lift to get through the ghost without hitting them. I got pretty lucky doing this because it is extremely difficult and I would have thought it impossible if I did not get it by chance early on. Anyways then I switch to fast flying again and fly as far as I can before hitting the stairs. It might be possible to somehow rise high enough not to hit the stairs, or maybe to fly through these stairs too and land on that square and jump to the door, that would be cool, and slightly faster. http://www.wam.umd.edu/~darreon/smw_/7door1.smv
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 5/17/2005 10:09 AM
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A_Runnelid
Joined: 4/23/2004
Posts: 150
Great work! I would have guessed regrabbing the shell saved more than a mere 1-2 frames, by the looks of it. Flying through the ghost circle looks so neat. Doing such things gives off the feeling that forward progression isn't hindered by anything at all in the game. Like nothing could stop Mario from rushing through the stages at full speed. Andreas
Posted: 5/18/2005 5:01 AM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Bisqwit I hope you like the acting: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~darreon/smw_/7b.smv BoltR told me about the trick to with the stompers, so thanks to him! No real progress though other than that. Looks like the next room in ghost house will be very challenging due to the way the circle of ghost are oriented, so I was afraid to make a real start it yet. EDIT: Ok which does everyone like more that or http://www.wam.umd.edu/~darreon/smw_/7c.smv ?
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 5/19/2005 4:48 AM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Ghost house complted. Big boo fight is going to be redone, it was just a test to make sure fadeout lag is good, and a control in case fancy stuff I add causes slow down. The second room of the ghost house was pretty hard but I utilize a glitch I discovered today to save lots of time. Earlier I said there might be some sort of hybrid flying that is higher, today I found it. To do it all you need to do is hold forward for about 25 frames to get into swoop motion then pull up. This alone will get you higher than normal flying, but there is the glitch which totally pwns. As your start to come down from lifting, 2 frames before you can hold back to lift, press forward every other frame for 10 frames. You will now be in swoop animation in 10 frames instad of 25, so you lose less height and you can act sooner. Also this swoop last longer than the regular, if you stop pressing forward you have more time before you can press back to lift. Also another nice feature of this is that since you press forward for a total of 5 frames you maintain fast flying (fast flying is mod 5 #forward press frames). This glitch allows you to fly very high. I use it twice, once before the pswitch, but I let myself fall extra so thats not its full height, then again while flying to the door, this time it is used to full potential, but too bad you can't see how high it goes because it goes off the screen! It might be faster to use this in the first room of the ghost house but it does require more initial drop down so it couldn't be done without hitting anything, you would have to slow down and make space. This will require some more experimenting. Also this may save a frame or two in donut plains 1 because you can be in fast flying longer, it might also make a couple more kills possible in this level, so it might be worth back tracking. Right now exactly 5 seconds ahead of Alex's run. http://wam.umd.edu/~darreon/smw_/bigboobeta.smv Edit: oh yeah forgot to mention previous version I made of this is a little slower but is more interesting due to lack of flying glitch http://wam.umd.edu/~darreon/smw_/hehe2.smv
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 5/23/2005 2:22 AM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Been busy, but have had time today to do the big boo fight and star world 1 I intended to juggle the same 2 blocks the whole time (with none left on the floor), but they only last so long so I had to pick a new one up. Normally you can not finish the level like this because it waits for you to hit the ground to go into victory sequence. This is fooled by hitting the wall in a wall jump like way. Finishing like this was first shown possible by BoltR, so thank you very much. Also I do not think any more blocks can be juggled at once while flying because for the bug of you staying in flying animation to work, you need to throw it during the initial lift off part. I finish the next level 83 frames faster than Alex's 11 exit and 57 frames faster than Viper's 96 exit. I'm not certain that even this is the fastest possible, so I would like you try to an beat it too. The main reason that it is faster is because I use A to bounce high enough to start the smashola glitch sooner. The next level looks pretty easy but I think I'll wait to start it until after we are sure we have nailed star world 1.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 5/23/2005 5:05 AM
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CoolBumpty
Joined: 12/12/2004
Posts: 158
That fight was so beautiful that it made me want to cry.
Posted: 5/23/2005 5:22 AM
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asteron
Joined: 2/16/2005
Posts: 462
CoolBumpty wrote:
That fight was so beautiful that it made me want to cry.
Definitely agree with that. (-: Nice job there Is there a reason that you break that bottom block on the the first part of starworld1? I dont remember Viper doing that in the 96 exit run and I would think it slows you down. Do you know how the frames compare here?
This signature is much better than its previous version.
Posted: 5/23/2005 6:32 AM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Cool, thanks. Here's the frame data you ask for: 
          alex  	viper	me
appear    23249	92513	22948
second    23543	92799	23207 (23213)
open      23690	92934	23311
fadeout   23821	93059	23437
'second' refers to frame that you hit the second group of blocks, in mine it has 2 numbers because I slow float down at the end to move further to the left. So in the first part I gain 27 frames and 22 frames on the second part. Good eye noticing that difference with hitting that block, but I tried it without hitting that brick also, and for some odd reason that was a few frames slower. This level really is weird and there might still be room to improve using different approaches.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 5/23/2005 2:00 PM
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Saturn
Player (206)
Joined: 2/18/2005
Posts: 1451
I'm very impressed of the Big Boo Battle, first time I saw it I thought: are you crazy??? and was pretty sure that you will die after removing the last box. You play volleyball with them and win the battle in the air, respect.
See my perfect 100% movie-walkthroughs of the best RPG games on http://www.freewebs.com/saturnsmovies/index.htm Current TAS project (with new videos): Super Metroid Redesign, any% speedrun
Posted: 5/23/2005 11:57 PM
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asteron
Joined: 2/16/2005
Posts: 462
Well looking at it now frame by frame it looks like you break them as you pass through them o_0 So they dont slow you down but by breaking them you arent being pushed down for that distance either so this should be slower.... I tried experimenting with this myself some but it is evident to me that my recording powers not as advanced as yours (heh as if that wasnt clear after that boo battle). This area is one of the trickiest to get right but I think there are 2 or 3 frames to be saved there.
This signature is much better than its previous version.
Posted: 5/24/2005 12:53 AM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
You are correct, there are at least 9 frames to be saved, I was waiting till I finished star world 4 though to post (about half way done with it now, but side tracked by tv show 24). A few more frames might be plausible. Oh yeah and don't be turned off be by lack of recording powers, its just experience and you'll gain it in no time, you gotta start somewhere. Edit: Ok here it is, at the front door of bowser's castle exactly 8 seconds ahead of previous record set by alex! Starworlds 2 and 3 were done very slightly faster than viper's 96 exit and had better fadeout lag. Starworld 4 was done about 15 frames faster, due to shell usuage. These 4 starworld levels were all a little weird and I encourage people to give em a shot to see if it can be done faster. Also this really going to piss viper off, I used left+right in starworld 4. It is most likely possible to get the same time or better without the use of left+right, but personally I do not care if this is used so I just went ahead and did it.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 5/24/2005 4:09 AM
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-Tempest
Joined: 5/4/2004
Posts: 90
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Haven't watched the most recent update (still at work), but I decided I'd give the one up to Star World 1 a whirl this morning while getting ready to head to the office. Wow. That's all I can say.
Posted: 5/24/2005 4:26 AM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Also this really going to piss viper off, I used left+right in starworld 4. It is most likely possible to get the same time or better without the use of left+right, but personally I do not care if this is used so I just went ahead and did it.
Yes it does, thank you. Just rush ahead
Posted: 5/24/2005 7:53 AM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Ah no need to rush, feel free to try to remove using left+right again. Here is progress in bowser's castle It selects doors faster using flying, and it does that room #2 faster. As you notice I take door #7 after that, because it will save time to have cape in fight against bowser as shown in viper's 96 exit run. I was working on trying to figure out a way to do room #5 pretty fast without getting hit, but so far I have not been able to make it faster than #7. Ideas include running to the right then left to start flying while you wait for them to go back so you can fly through the area when ready (works, but hard and not fast enough I think). Flying into the spikes to get invincibility (if you run to the right and duck jump at frame 30154 you can get invincibility without getting hit, but it doesn't seem to last long enough). If there was some way to get invincibility twice this way it would work, and one time I was able to remain flying after gaining invincibility (not in this circumstance, but pressing x while rising or something). Lastly it is possible to get on top of the falling block dudes without getting hit by spin jumping on them, but I haven't found a way to get below them without getting hit. With #5 and getting hit enters door at 30593 (I didn't try very hard to optimize). With #7 and not getting hit enters door at 30675. Any help appreciated, this is going to be a hard one.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 5/24/2005 2:22 PM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
If you got the flower from the castle in world 1, you could switch to the flower when you do room #5 and still have the cape when you get hit.
Posted: 5/24/2005 2:43 PM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
He didn't get the flower. After a lot of testing it turned out not to be worth it, because you can jump trough the stairs in the ghost house with the feather too, and the double switch consumes a lot of extra frames. The time gained on first boss doesn't make up for it.
Posted: 5/24/2005 3:23 PM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
Is there a spot you could get another feather without losing time? I'm thinking perhaps by hitting another flashing-red super koopa in Donut Plains 1. The setup I'm thinking of though, there are three regular super koopas above in a bad spot. It may be possible. But unless you are getting hit toward the very end of the thwomp / spikes, you wouldn't be able to get the other feather after being hit anyway without losing time.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 5/24/2005 4:40 PM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Possibly getting another feather or firepower could be the way to go. For some reason I was under the impression from the beginning that it will only be ~20 frames slower doing #5 without being hit, so I never worried about such things back when I could have gotten them. If it turns out this is infact the best way to go, it will be painful, but I'll do it.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
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