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Would this work for shortcut to level 3?: go to path to lvl7, air jump and what not to make to final room where you go to lvl7. Then door glitch in that room and go up to the lvl3 room just above. Maybe those purple blocks don't require crusher :P If they really do require crusher which seems most likely, completing lvl3 most likely is required, UNLESS, someone can find some sort of horizontal zipping type glitch.
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The big q here, as I see it, is whether the Crusher is needed, i.e. does the World 2 boss need to be defeated. The answer is YES, unless: 1. IVZ can be used to get into the little room with the door from Area 2-->3 AND 2. IVZ can be used to get to the final boss room in Area 8 For 1: Looking at the map UA posted, you can see the door to Area 3 is just above that to Area 7. I've tried IVZ from several different spots in Area 2, and have zipped all around to various parts. However, the problem is when zipping up to the Area 3 door, one tends to get stuck at the Area 7 door just below it. I spent about 2 hours trying...perhaps a more organized/thorough effort could find success. For 2: I didn't try this (lack of success with #1 meant it wouldn't help) but it's worth a try. The final door is right next to the edge of its room, which makes it more likely possible to IVZ there. I'll give this another decent shot before giving up. As to using IVZ in World 3 to get to the World 8 door, or in World 2 to get to the boss room faster...both are likely possible, but for my unoptimized wip it was easier just to walk...;)
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Any progress on this? Playing around with this glitch myself, I figured out how to make zipping through Area 2 a breeze: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1314901400/Blaster%20Master%20%28E%29-0.fm2 Zipping into the Level 8 Boss door looks impossible, thanks to the fact that it's right over a big room with no walls there to zip up with. edit: WAIT, I have an idea. That intestinal-tract-like room before the final room in 8 has empty sky outside the walls, as opposed to solid walls like everywhere else in the game. It just might be possible to bounce over to the left, carry over 3 tiles of glitchiness from the room just left of where you start Area 8 in, and pop right into the boss dungeon's little door there... I'll see what I can come up with when I get home from work today.
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Cool, will check this out when I get home. Were you able to zip straight to the area 3 door? I haven't done anything further on this yet as I got ensnared playing a new version of a childhood game (Angband, rephial.org, soooooooo good). If we are able to zip straight to 3 AND can then zip straight to the level 8 boss door, this run will be truly ridiculous, with possibly only 1 screen (the opener) traversed normally!
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haha, that'd be awesome. The tank would never leave the starting room. So far, I'm having no luck with the Area 8 deal. Glitching into the open air area of that brain room is easy enough, but as you fall into nothing, the game actually doesn't place you into the room below--it places you at the top of the screen. This is okay if you're going to the right--though that also fails to do anything useful-- but if you're going to the left, there is eventually nothing to walk on anymore, and after falling four tiles or so, the game relocates you into the room below, being the huge square room in the top left, and death shortly follows. Now, using the pause menu to manipulate it so you never fall, you can make it all the way to the left and successfully appear just to the right of the boss door. Unfortunately, you are then stuck in a wall, and the game shoots you straight up, past another room, and into the bottom of another large, square room---right into a huge pit of spikes. Not useful. My next idea is to see if it's possible to glitch into the upper open area of that same intestine room, and if you can jump all the way to the left wall without having to use the pause glitch. If it works, then I'll see if it's possible to carry about three tiles of glitched movement to that same glitch point, and success will follow. Here's to good luck! As for the door to Area 3, untested it looks quite possible. Go to the second room, glitch into the wall you just came from and zip up into the corridor that leads to the Area 7 door. Go to that room, and use the same movement you used to get to the Area 2 door back in Area 1, and you'll very quickly appear in the Area 3 door room! I'll do a test. --shoot. The glitch in the second room of Area 2 won't work at the very first door. One tile off. Bah! We have two options now: Go through room 2 using the pause glitch to get up, around, and down to a door, glitch into a wall, go down a long tall room, and then continue to the Area 7 door like in any old run, or do the glitched path that leads to the boss door and see if glitching in a wall there can shortcut us up to the same corridors. Geeeez, that second path looks really iffy, but if it works, it's perfect as a fallback for if we can't glitch into Area 8's boss door, since we would need to beat the Area 2 boss anyway.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/330184132/Blaster%20Master%20%28E%29-1.fm2 That iffy second path I talked about, completed successfully. I hope this isn't too incredibly painful on the eyes. (Note the music glitch in the beginning, and that the biggest thing slowing me down was health management. A real TAS will probably be able to complete this path in only a minute.) I learned another interesting feature of this glitch--As Jason is flying upwards through the walls, you'll occasionally see him freeze for a few frames before continuing zipping. At these times, he is actually at a door, and if right is held (or left, I assume, if in the other direction), Jason will walk through this door in our familiar glitchy way and appear across the room. This gives us more freedom of movement when zipping, because otherwise the options were go really far up, or stop going really far up a little sooner. This is good, though. If this can be used in 8 to help get to the boss, it's very welcome.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/502446766/Blaster%20Master%20%28E%29-2.fm2 Holy sheesus it worked, it really worked! The game can now be beat without touching any boss except for 8's pair. I think I'm going to spend the rest of the night cleaning, but tomorrow I'll start TASing a final product to put all of these together. I'm so pumped from that haha Succeeding after failing dozens and dozens of times in a row is exhilerating
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Wow, this was awesome, great work. I really thought this level of minimization would be possible with using glitches to their fullest extent. Way to stick with it and work this out; I am impressed!
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Link to video fm2: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/76448034/BMnewtest.fm2 I believe that Blaster Master deserves a 100% run, using the (U) rom and defeating all of the bosses, so I put an ending on a two-year old Area 1 WIP of mine I found. It made little effort to reduce lag, so a whole new start is required. Better movements and techniques coupled with some glitches that I found a use for--dying at just the right frame after defeating a boss allows the boss to stay dead, while shifting the very long player death animation into the boss death animation which you have to wait for anyway. The walk back to grab the tank upgrade makes it so that the new Area 1 will almost be as slow as the '05 published run--all of the savings from this boss-death tactic (doing it in Area 2 as well) shift to after getting the tank upgrade in Area 3. Dying only once to reach the Continue? screen will save several seconds. I explain more in the Youtube vid's description. I...like to type a lot. Anyway, I'm not saying that I'm working on this run right now, and if anyone wants to take these ideas and run with them, mission accomplished. This is just about drumming up interest and discussion.
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So, since it doesn't seem like anyone has been working on this and there are definitely a bunch of improvements that could be made, I've started work on a TAS of the Blaster Master U ROM, taking advantage of Twisted Eye's discoveries in the previous post. I'm about halfway through the platformer section of Area 3, and I was thinking about how I want to proceed. Firstly, it seems to me that on the US rom, without the Tommy infinite jump glitch, the first time you could reasonably take advantage of the door glitch would be just to get across the room faster on your way to the Area 3 boss door, and I'm not sure that would actually save any time. Has anyone discovered something in Area 1 or 2, or is that basically correct? Also, I was wondering about the tradeoffs between making an "all bosses" run or a standard "as fast possible" run. It seems to me that skipping the Area 4 boss would make for a more interesting run, and personally I'd find it the most satisfying since I always thought the key was a cop-out "upgrade" anyway. Am I in the minority here? EDIT: Got to the point where I continue, and thanks a ton, Twisted Eye. Due to the time loss from dying early, I was only 68 frames ahead after killing the Area 3 boss, but dying only once allowed me to continue 757 frames faster.
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Awesome, thanks for taking it up. The game deserves an update! We already have a run that skips bosses, so I think it's only appropriate that a U-rom run should be All Bosses. If the only boss the U-rom can skip is Area 4's, there's really not enough of a difference to NOT go the full monty. Also, using the Door Glitch should be easily faster--my thought is, exit tank BEFORE entering room and glitch across. Doesn't matter where the tank is if you're dying immediately anyway. It'll also be really useful in Area 5! Good luck fighting that lag! OH! Also--did you use that Boss Door glitch against the Area 2 boss as well? Because you might not need to--I've long wanted to test the following: 1) Normal room fight. 2) DON'T immediately use the Pause glitch. 3) Wait until the first frame that he fires one of those diamond shaped projectiles at you from his head 4) THEN press Pause 5) Die on the projectile after unpausing. Of course, it's untested--I don't know if A) the timing would work right, and B) the projectile can even harm you after the boss has started dying. If this idea works, though, than it should save the frames caused by the door transition to get back INTO the room to get the reward. This, again, goes to the Area 4 boss (Even LESS likely, though! His fireballs move fast. [God, maybe even the Area 5 boss, some of the bubbles are slower than others? No wait, the way it's done in Namflow's run is definitely better])
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Twisted Eye wrote:
Awesome, thanks for taking it up. The game deserves an update! We already have a run that skips bosses, so I think it's only appropriate that a U-rom run should be All Bosses. If the only boss the U-rom can skip is Area 4's, there's really not enough of a difference to NOT go the full monty. Also, using the Door Glitch should be easily faster--my thought is, exit tank BEFORE entering room and glitch across. Doesn't matter where the tank is if you're dying immediately anyway. It'll also be really useful in Area 5!
An odd property of the door glitch forces you to pause and unpause before you can go through doors that require pressing "down" to activate. Otherwise the screen just fades to black then fades back in with you exactly where you were. If this weren't the case, glitching across the room to get to the Area 3 boss door would be something like 16 frames faster (I did that a while ago, so I don't remember the exact number), but instead it's just not worthwhile. It definitely could help in Area 5, however. I had a dream last night that someone figured out how to skip Area 5 as well, and posted about it... but it involved mario-esque enemy bounces to make some otherwise impossible jumps as Jason. -_- I'm still investigating a few things, though. If you use the door glitch 6 or more times in a row, once you cross the screen boundary again it seems to wildly offset your visual position from your map position, but I don't know the memory addresses that would let me determine where the hell my map position actually is. There's definitely potential there, though, so I'm still investigating for a potential Area 5 skip.
Twisted Eye wrote:
OH! Also--did you use that Boss Door glitch against the Area 2 boss as well? Because you might not need to--I've long wanted to test the following: 1) Normal room fight. 2) DON'T immediately use the Pause glitch. 3) Wait until the first frame that he fires one of those diamond shaped projectiles at you from his head 4) THEN press Pause 5) Die on the projectile after unpausing. Of course, it's untested--I don't know if A) the timing would work right, and B) the projectile can even harm you after the boss has started dying. If this idea works, though, than it should save the frames caused by the door transition to get back INTO the room to get the reward. This, again, goes to the Area 4 boss (Even LESS likely, though! His fireballs move fast. [God, maybe even the Area 5 boss, some of the bubbles are slower than others? No wait, the way it's done in Namflow's run is definitely better])
The timer before the boss arrives and becomes vulnerable seems to be independent, so the time for the screen transition isn't actually lost. On the first boss, I originally designed it as a normal fight and then changed things up to die on spikes in the previous room... the boss became vulnerable to damage on the same frame. But since this was a while ago I'm second-guessing myself, so I'll probably check for myself sometime soon. For the moment, I'll keep trying to skip Area 5, and if in a few days I haven't managed and someone else has chipped in to agree with you, I'll suck it up and actually slog through the sewer level. At the moment though it's 1-1 and in a tie I'm inclined to go with my own feelings. EDIT: Wow, I'm not just getting offset, something very strange is going on. I've done things like swim over to the right, and then sink for a bit and wound up in air. I wish I could figure this out more, because this seems like it could end up being the U rom version of what happens in the E run, and IMO running around in a glitched out world is more interesting to watch than just zipping everywhere you want to go at light speed.
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What's happening is that the game is noticing that, while Visual Jason is in the same area, Virtual Jason is in a different room entirely, and the game is actually loading the other room while you watch, I believe correcting the discrepancy on the fly. It's really odd to work with and usually destroys whatever manipulation you were going for. I seriously believe skipping Area 5 in U-Rom is not possible. The dumb door is way up in the air!! Messing with that weird auto-correct mechanic is still worth looking into. If it's not helpful here, it might yet be elsewhere. Area 3 boss room door glitch: If I remember right, you don't have to pause-unpause; the fade-out-fade-in fixes that for you. Just move a tile over and enter the room and you're good. Still might be slower though, and you might have already accounted for this, so pbbt. Skipping a large part of Area 4 on the way down to the boss might be possible, I dunno it's a wild idea I just had. You can walk over the water when taking damage (At most two tiles of movement, I think). It might be possible to enter one of the non-boss dungeons, walk over a short section of the water using damage, and reach the boss early. I remember discussion on discovering that it's not possible to go in through the wrong entrance in Area 7, but Area 4's islands are laid out differently, and often closer together. http://www.auriplane.net/blastermaster/
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Twisted Eye wrote:
I seriously believe skipping Area 5 in U-Rom is not possible. The dumb door is way up in the air!! Messing with that weird auto-correct mechanic is still worth looking into. If it's not helpful here, it might yet be elsewhere.
Well, what originally led me to think it may be possible was this platform: It's only one tile lower than the exit door, so if you could offset your visual position about a screen or so to the left of your map position (or significantly further to the right), then you could jump up to the door... but swimming around thinking in that context, it does definitely seem to be trying to auto-correct the map around you to your actual visible position. So yeah, it's almost certainly not possible to offset things much further than 5 or 6 tiles. I will look for shortcuts in Area 3, or for actually trying to beat the boss in Area 4, but that will be messy too. On another note, I'm discovering that switching weapons when pausing and unpausing to remove door transition time somehow affects sub-pixel positioning or something. I'm going to need to dig around in ram and figure out what's going on there, and may even need to restart the run if it seems useful/harmful. There were some doors where I left in weapon switching just because I was being lazy and copy/pasting holding right or left the entire way through the door transition, but releasing the direction for the one frame when I unpause sometimes causes the video to desync.
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Hey, how's progress? I've got some. The idea I had recently about entering a different dungeon in Area 4 and using damage to walk over the water worked swimmingly. Ha. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/754643460/Blaster%20Master%20%28U%29-0.fm2 I also accidentally (seriously) got the whole 'die with timing to skip fade-out transition' trick to work on the frog's tongue. All-in-all, this saves at least 20 seconds! For reference, you can also use the dungeon that's directly above the one I use, but it's assuredly a couple seconds slower. The first one you come across can't, though. Amusingly enough, after beating a boss and getting its prize, you are warped to the entrance of the dungeon you SHOULD have entered by. If I didn't already want to continue-warp, I would have been screwed--miles away from the tank, hahha.
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I've been digging around in RAM to try and find why switching weapons (even uselessly, e.g. switching from the rightmost weapon to the rightmost weapon) sometimes causes a frame of lag to appear or disappear significantly later, but I haven't found any leads yet. Since it's obvious this should be monitored to save as many frames as possible, it seems important to figure out... but I've gotten frustrated with no progress and so I've been trying some other things. In particular, I was trying to find a way to reach the boss door earlier in Area 3 using the door glitch. Though I've been unsuccessful so far (and am fairly convinced now that it's impossible), I've learned a few more things about the door glitch: 1) When door glitching, you can jump for one frame after "exiting the door," even if this puts you in midair. This allows you to safely door glitch in a few locations that wouldn't work otherwise. 2) Entering your tank corrects your position, just like pausing or attempting to enter down-activated doors. Also, you can only enter your tank when your visible position coincides, not your map position. Unfortunately, this means you can't repeatedly door glitch to offset your position, then re-board your tank to improve your mobility. I don't know if those were previously discovered, but there we go.
Post subject: Blaster master "area 4 new paths": YouTube
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Link to video
Twisted Eye wrote:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/754643460/Blaster%20Master%20%28U%29-0.fm2 I also accidentally (seriously) got the whole 'die with timing to skip fade-out transition' trick to work on the frog's tongue. All-in-all, this saves at least 20 seconds!
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oh, hey, thanks for the encode!
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Wow, that's a lot better than actually going through all of Area 4. Awesome.
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I guess I might as well post this to get commentary on any time-saving maneuvers I may have missed, as well as to see if anyone else can figure out what's going on with weapon switching. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/842086333/bmbm%20wip.fm2 WIP up through the beginning of Area 5, including the Area 4 skip via the door glitch. So, for an example of the mysterious properties of weapon switching: If frame 2132 is adjusted so that Right is released for that one frame, thus removing a "weapon switch" that doesn't actually change which weapon is selected, then the tank's tires are at a slightly different rotation once the game resumes, but gameplay (position, velocity, enemy position, etc.) continues to line up until frame 2707, at which point a lag frame mysteriously appears. If an additional frame is inserted to compensate, the movie syncs once again until frame 21790 (19083 frames later!), where another lag frame appears mysteriously... and so on and so forth. Digging around in RAM I haven't been able to find any sort of explanation for what's going on here. If anyone else has any ideas what could be causing this, your input would be greatly appreciated. EDIT: Oops, 2132 is a weapon switch that does actually change weapons, even though I don't use special weapons until after I switch again. An example of that would be 4441, where if that R is unset, the movie syncs until a lag frame appears on frame 21789. If a frame is added to compensate, that lag frame is recovered on frame 21924, another lag frame is recovered on 31977, but a lag frame occurs on 34043... and so on and so forth. I suspect it may have something to do with the RAM used for sound effects playing, or something like that? I don't know though.
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Bump because I'm kind of upset about losing 140 frames for an unknown reason. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1897019008/bmbm%20wip2.fm2 So when I kill the Area 5 boss and grab the Dive Mechanics, I'm sent back to the beginning of the "dungeon," but with no enemies onscreen. It seems like the fastest way to take a point of damage is to exit the dungeon, immediately re-enter, and then head to the right to run into an enemy. Another direction may be preferable, but anyway... In the current run, he's sent back to the beginning of the dungeon and there don't seem to be any enemies, but he begins walking to the left and, conveniently, one of the little guys appears directly in front of him. He takes the fatal point of damage 7 frames after the fade-in, rather than 147 like in my current WIP. Why is that guy there for him and not me? It isn't the RNG state, since that doesn't update during the fade-in. What gives? In other news, the boss kill in Area 5 is much faster, though I'm trying to see if I can change things up a bit to have less bubbles, and thus less lag, during its death animation. Even though the lag continues well after the bubbles leave the screen, I was earlier able to have only one lag frame occur during the explosion sequence, but after a significantly slower bossfight. Oh, and in other news I still don't understand the weapon switching thing at all, but with some trial and error I removed most of the "extraneous" switches, keeping only the ones that actually save frames, and saving 17 frames total as well as making it less annoying to listen to. Notably, whatever is going on there is reset by continuing. After removing weapon switches I had to tweak input to adjust for new or removed lag frames, but the input after the first continue lines up perfectly as before. The RNG, 0x0013, is reset as well on continue. This indicates to me that input from immediately after a backtracking continue should be re-usable, so if I want to switch to a run that doesn't skip area 4 after finishing the run this way, I'd have to redo Areas 4 and 5 but I could re-use 6 up until its backtracking continue, redo the following backtracking up until the continue in Area 7. But I think I'd be able to keep everything after the continue there. Which, overall, is a lot of work, but isn't as intimidating as I was worrying about. EDIT: Ah ffffffff- ...I've gotten better at TASing, and techniques I was using during the Area 5 bossfight have revealed to me that I kind of botched the Area 1 bossfight. May need to redo Area 2 and 3, but on the plus side, my redo of the latter part of Area 1 has saved 34 frames so far...
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Uh, wow... hey guys, so I found something kind of interesting. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1821403888/bmbm%20area%207%20shortcut.fm2 Unfortunately it's just the same as my finished run up until frame 91700ish, but still, what comes after that is really close to being magical. I'm 1 HP away from shortcutting to the Area 7 boss dungeon, which would probably save ~20 seconds. Does anyone have any insight on how to avoid falling damage on my way onto that roof? I'm pretty sure the 4 damage from the lava is unavoidable, as well as the 2 falling damage getting down through the roof itself, so if I can avoid falling damage between those (including if that requires me to take 1 damage from an enemy somehow) I'll be able to survive. If it's possible, that will skip three rooms including the final room, one of those long hallways, and save me so much hover I won't even come close to needing that hover four-pack I detour for to take all the shortcuts I already take and maybe even a few more. So does anyone else have any insight? Anything I seem to be missing, or more information on how that auto-correct mechanic actually works? I'm abusing the hell out of it here without knowing what's going on, so with just a little more info I'd probably figure it out. EDIT: Nevermind, got it. :D So I'm probably going to end up redoing the run, unfortunately, but this is amazingly awesome so yeah. Link to video
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BrotherMojo, awesome progress on the run! I've got a question that's been bugging me for the longest time. Since you're able to conserve Hover use by using frame-by-frame input, have you looked into the possibility of hovering straight up into area 7's entrance from the hall in area 2? As a kid I would try this all day long, thinking that if I could just launch Sophia off the platform at the right moment I would have enough Hover to carry me up there.
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
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ars4326 wrote:
I've got a question that's been bugging me for the longest time. Since you're able to conserve Hover use by using frame-by-frame input, have you looked into the possibility of hovering straight up into area 7's entrance from the hall in area 2?
It's only really possible for horizontal travel. When trying to hover upward, if at any point you release A your vertical velocity is reset to 0, so to ascend as efficiently as possible you must hold A the entire time, meaning you just can't "stretch" your hover any when travelling straight up.
ars4326
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BrotherMojo wrote:
ars4326 wrote:
I've got a question that's been bugging me for the longest time. Since you're able to conserve Hover use by using frame-by-frame input, have you looked into the possibility of hovering straight up into area 7's entrance from the hall in area 2?
It's only really possible for horizontal travel. When trying to hover upward, if at any point you release A your vertical velocity is reset to 0, so to ascend as efficiently as possible you must hold A the entire time, meaning you just can't "stretch" your hover any when travelling straight up.
Ah, I see. In that case, is it also out of the question to possibly manipulate those three floating enemies into generating enough Hover drops and obtain enough fuel to clear the distance?
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
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