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Posted: 5/31/2013 7:28 AM
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Pasky13
Former player
Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland
Hrmmm, I can't seem to find the timer. The man in the middle of the square that tells you how many minutes remaining until the crowd gets together. I found how that was calculated by can't exactly figure out how it's calculated if that makes sense :P. When you walk into the area where the cutscene takes place, address 7E2515 gets written to, this is the minutes remaining. However it's only written to when entering the area and the way it's value gets derived is confusing (well, how the pointer works, not how it's actually retrieved). 
8cea4f lda [$82]     [92cc90] A:2515 X:0038 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e NvMXdizc V:258 H:1038	; load the pointer
8cea51 inc $82       [000082] A:25be X:0038 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e NvMXdizc V:258 H:1080	; increase its address by 1
8cea53 bne $ea57     [8cea57] A:25be X:0038 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e NvMXdizc V:258 H:1114
8cea57 asl a                  A:25be X:0038 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e NvMXdizc V:258 H:1132	; double the lower byte in the accumulator
8cea58 rol $8a       [00008a] A:257c X:0038 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvMXdizC V:258 H:1144	
8cea5a tax                    A:257c X:0038 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvMXdizc V:258 H:1178
8cea5b rep #$30               A:257c X:007c Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvMXdizc V:258 H:1190
8cea5d jmp ($f041,x) [8cf0bd] A:257c X:007c Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V:258 H:1208
8cea73 lsr a                  A:257c X:007c Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V:258 H:1244	; divide the accumulator in half
8cea74 and #$000f             A:12be X:007c Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V:258 H:1256	; AND against 0x000F, the remainder is the minutes
8cea77 sta $02       [000002] A:000e X:007c Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V:258 H:1274
8cea79 stz $04       [000004] A:000e X:007c Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V:258 H:1302
8cea7b jmp $ea49     [8cea49] A:000e X:007c Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V:258 H:1330
8cea49 sep #$30               A:000e X:007c Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V:258 H:1348
8cea4b lda $8a       [00008a] A:000e X:007c Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvMXdizc V:259 H:   2
8cea4d bne $ea60     [8cea60] A:0001 X:007c Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvMXdizc V:259 H:  22
8cea60 rep #$30               A:0001 X:007c Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvMXdizc V:259 H:  40
8cea62 lda $02       [000002] A:0001 X:007c Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V:259 H:  58
8cea64 rtl                    A:000e X:007c Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V:259 H:  86
8cd7e0 plx                    A:000e X:007c Y:004b S:1feb D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V:259 H: 128
8cd7e1 sta $0000,x   [7e2515] A:000e X:2515 Y:004b S:1fed D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V:259 H: 162	; store the result from the AND from earlier at the address
Above are the instructions exected when 14 minutes were remaining. Here is the same routine with only 2 minutes remaining, the pointer at [$82] is what changes between the two: 
8cea4f lda [$82]     [92cd74] A:2515 X:0038 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e NvMXdizc V: 34 H: 600
8cea51 inc $82       [000082] A:25b2 X:0038 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e NvMXdizc V: 34 H: 642
8cea53 bne $ea57     [8cea57] A:25b2 X:0038 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvMXdizc V: 34 H: 676
8cea57 asl a                  A:25b2 X:0038 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvMXdizc V: 34 H: 694
8cea58 rol $8a       [00008a] A:2564 X:0038 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvMXdizC V: 34 H: 706
8cea5a tax                    A:2564 X:0038 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvMXdizc V: 34 H: 740
8cea5b rep #$30               A:2564 X:0064 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvMXdizc V: 34 H: 752
8cea5d jmp ($f041,x) [8cf0a5] A:2564 X:0064 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V: 34 H: 770
8cea73 lsr a                  A:2564 X:0064 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V: 34 H: 806
8cea74 and #$000f             A:12b2 X:0064 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V: 34 H: 818
8cea77 sta $02       [000002] A:0002 X:0064 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V: 34 H: 836
8cea79 stz $04       [000004] A:0002 X:0064 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V: 34 H: 864
8cea7b jmp $ea49     [8cea49] A:0002 X:0064 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V: 34 H: 892
8cea49 sep #$30               A:0002 X:0064 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V: 34 H: 910
8cea4b lda $8a       [00008a] A:0002 X:0064 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvMXdizc V: 34 H: 928
8cea4d bne $ea60     [8cea60] A:0001 X:0064 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvMXdizc V: 34 H: 948
8cea60 rep #$30               A:0001 X:0064 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvMXdizc V: 34 H: 966
8cea62 lda $02       [000002] A:0001 X:0064 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V: 34 H: 984
8cea64 rtl                    A:0002 X:0064 Y:004b S:1fe8 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V: 34 H:1012
8cd7e0 plx                    A:0002 X:0064 Y:004b S:1feb D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V: 34 H:1054
8cd7e1 sta $0000,x   [7e2515] A:0002 X:2515 Y:004b S:1fed D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V: 34 H:1088
Apparently it just gets the value from a table that starts at: 0x92CC7D the first value for 15 minutes being 0xBF, and every 0x13 bytes is the next (0xBE for 14 at 0x92CC90, 0xBD for 13 at 0x92CCA3) I've tried following that pointer at [$82] to try and make sense of it but I cannot. I will try checking out the save game timer next and seeing if maybe it uses the same clock that does to calculate a difference.
I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton
Posted: 5/31/2013 11:45 PM
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TheAngryPanda
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
So just watching 7e2515 won't do us any good, correct? Well... wait, it updates as we enter the market right? If that's the case, I could simply do a rough calculation to find a range of frames to enter the market at that would allow me maximum play around time (since that's basically all that happens during this) before having to run through the market and enter the cutscene on the proper frame. Would this kind of idea work if I just regularly checked the timer every 7200 frames (~2 minutes, i say ~ because transitional screens and other functions "stop" the timer) to see where I was? Also, didn't think to look at the save timer... Figuring this out could lead to methods to exploit it if we could find a way/thing that advances the timers rather than stopping it. That would be very nice to discover, but it's far beyond my capabilities at the moment. Either way, thanks for finding a reference point if anything Pasky, much appreciated.
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 6/4/2013 1:51 PM
(Edited: 6/5/2013 10:47 AM)
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Pasky13
Former player
Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland
I found the timer and can get it accurate within 60 frames as far as the remaining time goes. if 0x7E225D is set to 0xC the market has started (this will only get set if you are inside the town when the time ends). I've written a lua script for snes9x 1.51 and Bizhawk that displays the time passed, time remaining, and estimated frames remaining. Moving in and out of the market appears to affect the frames remaining (although I can't gauge it and adjust). Entering screens adds frames to the remaining time, I'm guess this is because when loading new areas the timer is not doing it's calculations. Bizhawk: http://pastebin.com/fA00Dv5F Snes9x 1.51 (should also work with 1.43): http://pastebin.com/MFq8Gt2j [URL=http://imgur.com/rTMBPzk.png][/URL] [URL=http://imgur.com/cxsRQK3.png][/URL] Hope this helps.
I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton
Posted: 6/4/2013 4:08 PM
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TheAngryPanda
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Oh yeah, that helps. :D Thanks a ton Pasky, you have no idea how much time that'll save me in regards to calculations and whatnot. It could also help people gauge exactly how much time they have left in real-time runs to enable further optimizations for them during the "15 mins" instead of playing it super safer like normal. Going to be doing lots of testing for a while.
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 6/4/2013 4:44 PM
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Pasky13
Former player
Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland
It's actually 14 minutes :P
I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton
Posted: 6/4/2013 6:02 PM
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AsFarAsIGet
Joined: 6/4/2013
Posts: 8
Hi guys! Wow Pasky13, pretty impressive what u did there! I tried out your lua script, somehow it's bugged for me. [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/timerld.png/][/URL] Any Idea why it is so? P.s.: I just went into the market and thats what I get. Greetings AFAIG
Posted: 6/4/2013 8:34 PM
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TheAngryPanda
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Well unfortunately my progress towards Act 2 is cut short at the moment... During the Magmar fight (last boss of Act 1) the game wants to crash every time I 8 cast, so I'm going to completely re-do the fight from where I had left off and try manipulating it a bit differently. If this doesn't work then I'm at a loss for what's causing the crash, my only guess is either too rapid of input or too many sprites on the screen, which if the latter is the case, means Magmar generates multiple sprites during movement and simply having numbers on the screen (energy bar/damage amount) will cause the crash. If it's the rapid input, that's easily delayed and fixed, but so far I haven't found a long enough delay for it. As soon as Act 1 is done (this fight is done) I'll post my WIP here with some corrections I already know I'm going to make, but I need proof of concept for my strategy on Magmar first.
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 6/4/2013 9:33 PM
(Edited: 6/4/2013 11:37 PM)
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Pasky13
Former player
Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland
...
I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton
Posted: 6/4/2013 10:28 PM
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Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4043
TheAngryPanda wrote:
Well unfortunately my progress towards Act 2 is cut short at the moment... During the Magmar fight (last boss of Act 1) the game wants to crash every time I 8 cast, so I'm going to completely re-do the fight from where I had left off and try manipulating it a bit differently.
IMO this is a job for doing Magmar attempts from that save state in real time/in slowdown time rather than slow TASing. Grind out attempts to see under what circumstances you get the crash and under what circumstances you don't. Try making save states closer and closer to the end of the fight to see how much you can 'manipulate' it crashing or not based on what different things you do, and your intuition of how much it can be manipulated will form.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Posted: 6/4/2013 11:40 PM
Quote
Pasky13
Former player
Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland
AsFarAsIGet wrote:
Hi guys! Wow Pasky13, pretty impressive what u did there! I tried out your lua script, somehow it's bugged for me. [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/timerld.png/][/URL] Any Idea why it is so? P.s.: I just went into the market and thats what I get. Greetings AFAIG
Fixed: Snes9x: http://pastebin.com/MFq8Gt2j Bizhawk: http://pastebin.com/fA00Dv5F
I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton
Posted: 6/5/2013 12:57 AM
Quote
TheAngryPanda
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Patashu wrote:
TheAngryPanda wrote:
Well unfortunately my progress towards Act 2 is cut short at the moment... During the Magmar fight (last boss of Act 1) the game wants to crash every time I 8 cast, so I'm going to completely re-do the fight from where I had left off and try manipulating it a bit differently.
IMO this is a job for doing Magmar attempts from that save state in real time/in slowdown time rather than slow TASing. Grind out attempts to see under what circumstances you get the crash and under what circumstances you don't. Try making save states closer and closer to the end of the fight to see how much you can 'manipulate' it crashing or not based on what different things you do, and your intuition of how much it can be manipulated will form.
I actually have a fairly good idea of what happened that caused this rather odd issue. I'm probably a slight bit too far up with the camera, which loads the animations of the bubbling lava in the corners. Manipulating Magmar to the middle platform, damaging him with both characters, glitching him out by hitting him mid air, and 8x casting on top of that is probably a bit much with the extra animations everywhere. Anywho, I'll figure it out off-stream then pick up where I left off in the fight. EDIT: so what actually happened was a permanent sprite overflow caused by exiting the screen on a certain frame or frame range, which "froze" the part of the game that has how many sprites are being displayed at any given time. Essentially I locked it at 10 (8+boy/dog), 2 more and a boss casting a spell would crash the game. So yeah, fun little bug, either way, it's fixed and Magmar will be down soon-ish and then I can post my WIP for you guys to find any errors that I don't already know about (I'll list the errors when I post the video). Going to stream my WIP on this project. http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 My past broadcasts have just about everything else up to this point, or at least all the relevant things if anyone cares about my progress thus far, it's really not THAT interesting unless you're familiar with the tricks involved. EDIT2: I've been busy making up a marathon route for SGDQ regarding this game so I haven't gotten to work on the TAS much since I last streamed. I know the Magmar strat works now, so I need to re-do the fight and post my WIP with what I know is wrong with it, then see if anyone can point out more mistakes/suggestions to improve it further, then I can work on v1.4 of the TAS, which will essentially start completely over minus the intro. EDIT3: So been a while I guess. I decided to go and fix all the small errors within the TAS since I wasn't happy showing the previous WIP with all the lazy errors and optimizing in it. Currently working towards getting through the intro again with much better flowers and damage patterns. Then I need to refine the Thraxx fight again so it doesn't end with the dog being launched across the map costing me ~3s total alone (miserably lazy on my part). Once that's over I just need to get to Magmar again and I should be very happy with the result and finally able to provide you guys something to watch. One thing I was hoping to find somewhere was a "guide" or something for LUA hitbox scripts so i could make one to further illustrate some things and honestly just to learn the process so I can hopefully handle things myself instead of having to rely on others to do it for me. If anyone can point me in the right direction to get started with this, please PM me, I'd really appreciate the help.
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 6/22/2013 11:38 PM
(Edited: 7/13/2013 3:05 AM)
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TheAngryPanda
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Hey guys, sorry for the double post. Here's my WIP thus far (only up to Thraxx). https://www.dropbox.com/s/yhajfpkmy0gvpq8/SOE-TAS-V1.4.bkm Will keep you guys updated as I progress, really enjoying all the TAS stuff and I'm learning a ton from it.
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 6/23/2013 12:55 AM
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Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4043
TheAngryPanda wrote:
Would a verification movie be fine for a game like this or would we want the intro included even though it's literally the robot fight and that's basically it.
If it doesn't desync the rest of the run (= it's trivial to splice in when you're happy with a run) it should be done, imo. If it does desync the rest of the run to include vs not include, you can skip it with SRAM. Precedence: Symphony of the Night TASes start from SRAM to skip cutscenes.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Posted: 6/23/2013 1:02 AM
(Edited: 7/13/2013 3:06 AM)
Quote
TheAngryPanda
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Here's what occurs when starting the game with a save file already present on the cart: -Skip Intro via Start -Different "entering" sequence for the first area (the one with the flowers) So there are some pretty major differences there as the entering sequence after the intro plays out is a ton of text before you can move and when you CAN move, you're much further right than if starting from a save file present cart. If it wasn't for the differences during this sequence i wouldn't care and would just make a verification movie. But since RNG is entirely dependent upon positional status for each character, this can really cause some issues if we were to just simply "remove" the intro. So yeah, I'm still up in the air on what to do, which is why not much has gotten done on it.
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 7/11/2013 6:32 AM
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Omnigamer
Player (37)
Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282
Dug in and found what I believe to be the RNG. I say that having investigated things very little and am making the claim based only on "this looks like an RNG". 
8fdd25 jsl $80859b   [80859b] A:0000 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe9 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdiZC V:238 H: 484
80859b lda $0139     [7e0139] A:0000 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdiZC V:238 H: 578
80859e rol a                  A:298a X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizC V:238 H: 612
80859f bcc $85a4     [8085a4] A:5315 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V:238 H: 624
8085a4 adc $0135     [7e0135] A:5315 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V:238 H: 642
8085a7 sta $0139     [7e0139] A:6ab4 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V:238 H: 676
8085aa lda $0137     [7e0137] A:6ab4 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizc V:238 H: 710
8085ad rol a                  A:ce36 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e Nvmxdizc V:238 H: 744
8085ae bcc $85b3     [8085b3] A:9c6c X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e NvmxdizC V:238 H: 756
8085b0 inc $0135     [7e0135] A:9c6c X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e NvmxdizC V:238 H: 768
8085b3 adc $0133     [7e0133] A:9c6c X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e nvmxdizC V:238 H: 824
8085b6 sta $0137     [7e0137] A:5e35 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e nVmxdizC V:238 H: 858
8085b9 lda $0135     [7e0135] A:5e35 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e nVmxdizC V:238 H: 892
8085bc rol a                  A:17a0 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e nVmxdizC V:238 H: 926
8085bd bcc $85c2     [8085c2] A:2f41 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e nVmxdizc V:238 H: 938
8085c2 adc $0137     [7e0137] A:2f41 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e nVmxdizc V:238 H: 956
8085c5 sta $0135     [7e0135] A:8d76 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e NVmxdizc V:238 H: 990
8085c8 lda $0133     [7e0133] A:8d76 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e NVmxdizc V:238 H:1024
8085cb rol a                  A:c1c8 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e NVmxdizc V:238 H:1058
8085cc bcc $85d1     [8085d1] A:8390 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e NVmxdizC V:238 H:1070
8085ce inc $0139     [7e0139] A:8390 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e NVmxdizC V:238 H:1082
8085d1 adc $0139     [7e0139] A:8390 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e nVmxdizC V:238 H:1138
8085d4 sta $0133     [7e0133] A:ee46 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e Nvmxdizc V:238 H:1172
8085d7 rtl                    A:ee46 X:5e63 Y:0000 S:1fe6 D:0000 DB:7e Nvmxdizc V:238 H:1206
It changes itself every non-lag frame, occasionally multiple iterations per frame. Seems like it can be quite annoying to work with, but I don't know which bytes it will usually pull from to check RNG conditions. TL;DR: the RNG is all the bytes between 0x000133 and 0x00013A in 2-byte chunks.
Posted: 7/13/2013 5:33 AM
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TheAngryPanda
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
So I've been working on those robots with the "nothing" drop to improve my intro time. Seems that when I enable the lag counter on the TTAS Lemon did (Snes9x 1.5.1 v7) and on my movie for Bizhawk (latest release version), there's a 500+ difference prior to the boy/dog first being visible. Is this normal? Is it why I can't seem to match the frame count Lemon got in his TTAS at the robots? I know these are probably common sense questions but that's a huge difference so I want to make sure if it is or isn't. I've started from complete scratch for my new WIP, will post it when I'm happy with a place to stop... likely Thraxx. Should be much more optimized. Big thanks to Omnigamer for helping me with finding the character positions, they'll help a lot in the future. Here's the addresses: 004EA5 (Vertical Position) 004EA3 (Horizontal Position)
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 7/13/2013 7:13 AM
Quote
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4043
You say they're on two different emulators? Bizhawk (which uses bsnes/lsnes as its core) tends to emulate lag a lot more correctly than other emulators. Lag caused only by being on a more accurate emulator should be ignored.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Posted: 7/13/2013 1:14 PM
Quote
TheAngryPanda
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Yeah, they're on separate emulators. It's definitely where the problem was regarding the frame count differences, as everything else except one thing (4 frame loss on my end, which is fixed now) is basically exactly the same, obviously excluding name entry. I knew there was a difference in how they handled lag but I don't think I was expecting it to be that large. Anyways, SoE TAS is back on track.
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 7/18/2013 7:57 AM
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TheAngryPanda
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Small update on this since I haven't really said much lately and haven't streamed it either. I had a new attempt that's 4.6s ahead of the previous attempt. Unfortunately, right as I got to Thraxx, I figured out a new movement sequence optimization for the dog and the boy, so I've restarted at the Jaguar Tooth Ring guy's cave to take full use of that new discovery. Also, thanks to the information Omni's helped me with, such as finding the character position addresses, manipulating specific things has become infinitely easier than before. We've also determined that the RNG is dependent upon the frame and the action (or non-action) or the non-player controlled character. I have yet to determine if later when doing the banquet skip if the R/L buttons will allow the RNG to be altered as the dog isn't technically present on a select few screens. Once I get up to Magmar I'll release another WIP. Unfortunately, I'm at a stopping point post-Magmar since something is currently being tested and the person doing the tested hasn't posted results yet/done the testing yet. I may end up testing this stuff out myself and if I feel it's faster than the previous route method, I'll be using that... but this obviously pushes back work on the TAS. Regardless, once that's been figured out, I'll be flying through this game. All that being said, how about some suggestions on what to do during the 14 minute desert waiting period, I was thinking of spelling TASVIDEOS or PANDA (possibly both... probably) in the sand via character movement. It doesn't leave an impression (footprints) in the sand or anything, so it's really just something to do. Any other ideas would be great, my only requirement is that we're not killing anything at all, I want the level to be as low as possible. I'm also going to put together a TAS route on my Secret of EVermore guide that I've been constantly re-updating every time something new is implemented into the route. It's basically just a rough outline of things to come and currently (Because of the above statement) only goes up through Act 1. Either way, hopefully it will let people see why I get things I do and how the money management, etc... is taken care of. It's in .xlsx format, if requested I can upload a .pdf, but I don't think people will care too much. Here it is (keep in mind act 1 is the ONLY part done for the TAS). https://www.dropbox.com/s/3tngl51cd0rolxf/Secret-of-Evermore.xlsx I definitely haven't given up on this, just been occupied with other things. :)
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 7/18/2013 8:57 AM
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Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4043
how about some suggestions on what to do during the 14 minute desert waiting period
Could you abuse the fact that the encode will be done at 30Hz and turn around every frame while sprinting only on frames pointing in one of those directions, so you appear to be backwalking slowly (or forwardwalking slowly every time there's a lag frame, and back when there's another, etc)? Could you kite enemies around and repeatedly do crazy risky avoidance of their attacks connecting? (Could you do the opposite, repeatedly attack enemies in a way that looks like it should be connecting but is pixels short?) Could you display RNG manipulation by getting a ridiculous string of misses in a row? Btw, maybe tracing letters will be more obvious if you do large sweeps for each one and do an obvious stop between letters so you know that one is done. Not sure, would need experimentation :) Other shapes would be awesome, too - things like perfect circles, perfect polygons, perfect sine waves, hyperbolas, stars would all be interesting in a game with 8 directional movement.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Posted: 7/18/2013 10:55 AM
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TheAngryPanda
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
The turning every frame could be nice to do, I'll definitely play around with that idea. Kiting enemies is somewhat boring since there's only going to be a max of 5, so it'd get boring fast. Also, regarding enemies, I can't hit them at 100% energy anyways because of how the underflow glitch works as well as the fact that they can't hit me because I'll have invincibility active. The pause between drawn things is definitely going to happen, like a 60 frame pause with me just spinning the character in place probably. I was also thinking about messing with the desert zip and seeing if i can't figure out how to horizontal zip instead of vertical, it's happened before so if I can find it I'll just zip to all 4 corners of the desert stopping before the loading zones. Another idea I had was just messing around in the market buying stuff if my route permits it, which it more than likely doesn't, lol. I could kill a couple of enemies to get money to do a few things just to leave something in the TAS for the old school runners where we got the +hit stuff and other nonsense that really wasn't needed. Thanks for the suggestions Patashu. :)
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 7/18/2013 11:02 AM
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Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4043
If you have time to blow in the marketplace, isn't there a farm animal that you can interact with that you can spam making the sound of? (I remember MetaSigma doing it on stream once)
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Posted: 7/18/2013 11:15 AM
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TheAngryPanda
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
Yeah you can blow yourself up with the chickens, that's already in the plan since it's quite literally the only thing Lemon requested when I started all this nonsense; lol.
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 7/21/2013 4:38 AM
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TheAngryPanda
Player (72)
Joined: 5/28/2013
Posts: 99
And as fast as I was back working on this, it's completely come to a stop again. We're in the process of testing whether or not obtaining Sting level 2 is faster than Crush level 3 and the testing is essentially halted until post SGDQ marathon... I went ahead and did some initial timings just to figure out the route through Act 1 regarding the "new" route assuming it turns out a little quicker and it's turning out to not really make a damn bit of difference honestly. So yeah, it's kind of in limbo currently and where I'm at right now in the TAS is essentially where all the changes actually start. It sucks because I was super motivated to get this going again and now I'm just stuck waiting. edit: Seems Assassin17 on the SDA thread posted some nice information I wasn't aware of. You seem to be able to abuse a pickup glitch from enemy drops (or other ingredient pickups) that allows you to pickup more of another type of drop. For instance, a Mad Monk on the Eastern Beach drops 75 Jewels. If I were to pick up the 75 Jewels from the enemy drop, then immediately pick up the Vinegar in the area, I'd pick up 75 Vinegar instead of the normal 1/2/3/4 (depends on pick up order). I think this will end up saving a ton of time in act 2. Act 1 may end up remaining the same since my attack at that point is very weak and the route itself is quite solid. If it's possible, however, to manipulate an enemy to drop 25-30 crystals somewhere and it's not too far out of the way, I'll do that and eat the time loss to purchase ingredients for act 2 in act 1. Another change that comes along with this is in the pyramids, there's a container with 2 call beads that has an enemy right by it which hopefully can drop jewels. If this is the case, I'll have quite a lot of call beads to use and possible not need as much Sting/Crush for later areas. Considering I haven't gotten to Act 2 yet, I haven't yet decided whether or not I want to use Sting or Crush. Sting is probably going to be my option since I can menu cancel out of the animation faster than Crush. Other people's input here is more than welcome if they're familiar with the game mechanics.
My Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/theangrypanda1 Mostly SoE TAS and casual playthroughs.
Posted: 8/1/2013 8:05 PM
Post subject: Geiger’s Snes9x Debugger
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AsFarAsIGet
Joined: 6/4/2013
Posts: 8
Hi everyone! I tried to load secret of evermore with Geiger’s Snes9x Debugger (trying to learn some assembly). Unfortunately something messes up the game (complete map is bugged) although i've removed the header from the rom. Also tried to use another ROM, still the same effect. Does anyone know a solution for this or is there a good alternative tool for ASM? [URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/46/fxed.png/][/URL] Greetings
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