Banned User
Joined: 12/29/2012
Posts: 74
Location: Denmark
I met a guy on Omegle, and he actually said something that I was trying to argue with and failed, so I wanted to see what you guys thought. Stranger: Hey there You: hey Stranger: How are you? You: Pretty good, you? Stranger: I'm doing well, thanks Stranger: So what brings you to Omegle? You: Trying to find a friend! You: A good friend! You: Who I can share interests and stuff with! You: What about you? Stranger: I guess I'm just here to talk to someone :P You: Oh! Stranger: So, what makes you a nerd? You: I like Tool-Assisted Speedrunning! Stranger: Okay, so basically illegally downloading video games and cheating at them? You: LOL You: So you have seen them before? Stranger: I've seen my fair share You: I make them, except I have submitted none to TASVideos yet! Stranger: What games do you do runs of? You: I'm working on You: Donkey Kong Country 3 for GBA You: Pokemon Leaf Green also for GBA You: Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga for GBA You: and Adventures in the Magic Kingdom for NES Stranger: So, what kinda tools do you use? You: Emulators, Savestates, Slowdowns. You: I haven't any idea how to use programming and hex-editing to do TASing yet! Stranger: I'm fine with all of those aside from slowdowns You: Why not slowdowns? Stranger: Because save states and rewinds are like check points, it gives you another chance, but slowdown just removes so much challenge and negates the reflex and skill you need in order to actually be good at games Stranger: Any good Tool Assisted run of a game would never use Slowdowns You: Well, not true. You: Almost all the best TASes use slowdowns. You: If you don't, it's barely a TAS anymore... Stranger: Well in that case TAS is not something I'd be interested in Stranger: I watch dudes like Protonjon Stranger: These guys are actually good at games Stranger: Not only that but they provide very interesting commentary You: So you enjoy speedruns on their own? Stranger: TAS Stranger: He uses rewinds, save states and such Stranger: But if you use Slowdown it's basically because you suck You: Then you're saying the whole TAS community sucks! Stranger: That's not at all what I'm saying You: Because all of us that have common sense use slowdowns and frame advance. Stranger: I've seen quite a few without slowdown Stranger: common sense? You: Okay. Stranger: You're hiding behind that as an excuse for you lack of reflexes Stranger: If you're not fast enough to react in time to make precision jumps then just admit it You: Hold on, I will link you to the page. Stranger: Nah, I'm good You: Read this. You: http://tasvideos.org/WelcomeToTASVideos.html Stranger: Why> Stranger: *? You: It explains what a TAS is Stranger: I'm well aware of what they are You: "The movies on TASVideos are created with the help of emulators that have the capability of recording sequences of key presses — it is the key presses that are recorded, and the video and audio resulting from the emulator playing this back is what can be seen through the videos provided on the site. The emulators involved have been crafted to provide features specifically designed for optimal game play. The most common features are save states, allowing the author to return to an earlier point in the run (and thereby revert mistakes that are made), and the ability to play one frame at a time (known as frame advance), which removes the limitations of one's reflexes. Where even this isn't enough, some emulators allow for programming and 'bots' to further enhance the process. Stranger: If you use an emulator then you know what they are Stranger: Yeah, did I not just say several times over that I know what they are? Stranger: Yet you still feel blaring that at me is necessary? You: Nono, I just...want to enjoy myself. TASing is a lot of fun. Stranger: Okay, let's use this logic Stranger: If you can't make a series of jumps in Donkey Kong Country, let's say the Mine Cart level, then you don't have good enough reflexes to do it, you're simply not good enough Stranger: If you need to use slowdowns to beat it then you suck, you honestly do and that's not such a hard thing to take because those games are fucking difficult Stranger: There's no shame in being bad at them You: You don't NEED to use slowdowns to BEAT it. Any old fool could beat the level You: BUT You: the question is You: how FAST can you beat it? You: how ENTERTAINING can you beat it? Stranger: Just keep practising until you're good enough to do it rather than tarding the game down Stranger: How much SKILL do you have? Stranger: Not very much if you use slowdowns You: People speedrun the same games they make TASes of with that same skill. You: Such as Super Mario 64 You: People speedrun AND TAS the game very well, and some particular people do both TAS and non-TAS Stranger: Then good for them, if they're good enough to make all the jumps, handle all the challenges and beat the game normally, then they don't need slowdowns You: Well, what I'm trying to say is that it's not that you NEED slowdowns to make the leve You: l You: *beat the level You: I'm saying that in order to make everything frame perfect You: It can only be done with frame advance. Stranger: ooooooooo Stranger: Stranger you were so close Stranger: You were so fucking close to winning this argument Stranger: But at the last second you fucked it all up You: ? Stranger: "It can only be done with frame advance." You: Okay Stranger: Bullshit, I've seen so many fucking perfect runs without that You: How do you KNOW for FACT they didn't use slowdowns? People can lie. You: It is less efficient to keep on going back and going back until you get the frames right. Stranger: I'll point you to Protonjon yet again Stranger: Less efficient? Maybe, but it also, y'know, shows that you're good at a game? Stranger: If you pull it off right then you made it, you're good, if you slowed it down to make then you fucking suck, you couldn't do it on your own You: Yes I could... Stranger: Then prove it Stranger: Prove that you're any good at a game and do it without slowdowns You: That's already happened You: Hold on Stranger: Otherwise you're doing what literally any kid with half an attention span and an emulator could do Stranger: I'm not asking for one of your videos Stranger: Don't link me Stranger: I'm making a point about slowdowns in general, not you in specific, not others in specific
How can I help you King Dedede? I need a monster that can help me get Kirby. That´s what we do best at NME. You better give it with a money-back guarantee!
Joined: 2/3/2013
Posts: 320
Location: Germany
Err and where exactly is his "good point"? All I see is him missing the point constantly (not going to really elaborate on that; (tool-assisted speedruns are not about showing off good reflexes and motoric skills, they're not competing with non-assisted runs and so on and so forth))
All syllogisms have three parts, therefore this is not a syllogism.
Editor, Skilled player (1502)
Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1317
What an idiot the stranger is. :) He didn't even noticed what tasing is. Sadly most people think tasing is related to speedrunning/gaming, but it has barely similarities. ColdStarDust, you should show him the concept of tasing with a taseditor. Maybe he will think about slowdowns again.
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Post subject: Re: Slowdowns
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
ColdStardust wrote:
Stranger: Otherwise you're doing what literally any kid with half an attention span and an emulator could do
I think that's the relevant part. Many haters have this misconception that making TASes is easy. Just use an emulator and its savestates and slowdown, and the rest is just grinding over the game until there are no errors. If these people think that it's so easy, they are welcome to try to get even close to the completion time of TASes like the ones for Megaman, OoT or Pokemon Yellow. On their own, without looking at the painstaking work that others have already done.
Editor, Skilled player (1402)
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 2081
Oh god someone on the internet doesn't like TASing call the police
Skilled player (1530)
Joined: 7/25/2007
Posts: 299
Location: UK
Same ignorant BS from people who don't understand the concept of TASes, that it's somehow 'cheating'. Cheating implies deception, which there is none of in this community, we always point out that our runs are not real time, but are TASes. We're not trying to show off human skill, we're demonstrating how fast the game will allow us to complete it; which often involves searching much harder for solutions than a typical real time run would involve.
Banned User
Joined: 12/29/2012
Posts: 74
Location: Denmark
Oh god. I can't believe I said he made "a good point," that was the most fail typo ever. I stayed up all night, so I was tired. I edited the first sentence of the post, by the way. Particularly, I've had this argument with people several times, and I run out of arguments for my side. This guy actually got me good. I made this post to try to figure out what to say in opposition that should win the argument next time this happens!
How can I help you King Dedede? I need a monster that can help me get Kirby. That´s what we do best at NME. You better give it with a money-back guarantee!
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Skilled player (1884)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1349
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
ColdStardust:Judging by his words, that stranger is either outskilled by a TAS or just simply bad at video games. The chat log is full of his contradictions. Okay, maybe he had a very bad day or just really ignorant. I recommend you to don't try to impress those who simply don't want to know something particular. He answered to TASing with "cheating". This is like telling about death metal music to JB fans. Next time you should explain what is the goal of TASing (the result of the movie will resemble God playing that game inhumanly fast/impossible), how are you doing it (frame by frame to make sure you test everything that could potentially shorten the gameplay), what are you doing (planning routes, comparing them, making researches to know rules that invisible to human eyes), why are you doing (entertaining? WR? etc).
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...