Then there's also 100%, though no one has made one yet as far as I know.
IMO a 100% with EG would be pretty interesting if only just for how routing would work.
You could use major glitches to make your own routes. For example, once you get the dash boots, I believe, you can pretty much walk across gaps, which lets you take advantage of certain giant holes like the one in the castle dungeon; you can walk across to the other side, and it will get you inside the second dungeon early, which you can use to take the heart container in the boss room. (I think it's tapping the dash button every other frame)
Unless my memory fails, if you go back through, he'll drop the Ether pendant when you kill him.
On top of that, there's also the plethora of OOB glitches and silly things that we already know about, and since we have the full map of dungeons available to us, we can figure out which dungeons can be done with what items. Again, this isn't my specialty, but I believe that if you enter a dark world dungeon through a light world dungeon without the pearl, you should be able to stay normal since it only checks the pearl going between one world and another, not between dungeon maps. Effectively, we may be able to get our hands on the magic mirror and skip the pearl for a while by using OOB glitches to make the routing work with what items we would need; depending on where we can slip into which dungeons, we may be able to skip certain item requirements.
I would figure that the hardest part of a full 100% run would be gathering the heart pieces, but I know that lots of heart pieces are specifically in dungeon map areas accessed in towns or in Death Mountain, so it should technically be possible to grab those in places it would take hours of gameplay to reach otherwise because of item requirements and such, but some of those doors are one-way doors, anyway, so getting out may be a lot easier than getting in.
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of that. ¬_¬
Unless my memory fails, if you go back through, he'll drop the Ether pendant when you kill him.
There's no Ether Pendant, you're probably confusing it with the Pendants of Courage, Power and Wisdom. Second dungeon has the Pendant of Power at the end.
The pendant won't drop until the Heart Container is collected. And in turn, the Heart Container will only drop once the boss is defeated.
IMPblackbelt wrote:
On top of that, there's also the plethora of OOB glitches and silly things that we already know about, and since we have the full map of dungeons available to us, we can figure out which dungeons can be done with what items. Again, this isn't my specialty, but I believe that if you enter a dark world dungeon through a light world dungeon without the pearl, you should be able to stay normal since it only checks the pearl going between one world and another, not between dungeon maps. Effectively, we may be able to get our hands on the magic mirror and skip the pearl for a while by using OOB glitches to make the routing work with what items we would need; depending on where we can slip into which dungeons, we may be able to skip certain item requirements.
Correct, even without the pearl, Link stays normal.
However, if you enter a Light World dungeon and exit a Dark World dungeon, the game shows you the Dark World graphics, but it still thinks you are in the Light World. Some odd stuff will appear because of that.
The Magic Mirror is useful for getting back to where you entered the dungeon, but that's all it would really be useful for.
In the GBA version, you could use the Mirror to get out of bounds, but to my knowledge this cannot be done in the SNES version. We could however, get out of bounds early in the game (using the same method in the most recent "glitched" TAS of LttP), so we can still using more or less the same methods. I just don't know where or how we can clip into more walls.
IMPblackbelt wrote:
I would figure that the hardest part of a full 100% run would be gathering the heart pieces, but I know that lots of heart pieces are specifically in dungeon map areas accessed in towns or in Death Mountain, so it should technically be possible to grab those in places it would take hours of gameplay to reach otherwise because of item requirements and such, but some of those doors are one-way doors, anyway, so getting out may be a lot easier than getting in.
Considering that it takes particular places for Link to get out of a wall (maybe he won't at all, I believe Link actually walks below the floor, preventing his escape), this technique may not be as useful. If we find a way to exit a wall whenever, it could be a more useful strategy.
Still, I'm not as knowledgeable in the LttP speed run and TAS world. So take my post with a grain of salt.
Well, at least we're having discussion about it. Thanks for the correction; I still think we might be able to do some fun stuff with the glitches we have. Unfortunately, I feel like if we went with a glitched 100% run, route may have to change more than once as new tricks are discovered or new locations for using glitches are found.
I would figure that the hardest part of a full 100% run would be gathering the heart pieces, but I know that lots of heart pieces are specifically in dungeon map areas accessed in towns or in Death Mountain, so it should technically be possible to grab those in places it would take hours of gameplay to reach otherwise because of item requirements and such, but some of those doors are one-way doors, anyway, so getting out may be a lot easier than getting in.
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of that. ¬_¬
Oh crap, I just remembered I was supposed to make a .vbm on getting a heart piece more than once using OoB glitches. I believe it was to start from an unfinished dungeon, then OoB to Ganon's Tower and the boss refights would drop a heart piece.
Or I think it was like that. I think I'll just check it right now. >.>
Edit: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/9330437443294502
Er...sorry for the length of the file, had to start from power on to prove that no cheats were used. It's at the end of the vbm btw :P
http://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/561559-the-legend-of-zelda-a-link-to-the-past/faqs/39041
According to this, the Lanmola refight normally wouldn't drop the heart piece. :o
Considering that it takes particular places for Link to get out of a wall (maybe he won't at all, I believe Link actually walks below the floor, preventing his escape), this technique may not be as useful. If we find a way to exit a wall whenever, it could be a more useful strategy.
The way it works (roughly) is as follows:
To get for the different floors in the game, the game has to use layers. When you use EG, you trick the game into thinking that you are still on the same layer you were, but actually being in a place where you should be on a different layer. To get out of it, there are certain rooms you can enter that will get you out of it automatically.(?) (tompa has a map of things to do with EG and what the certain rooms do if you enter them) But I think you can also switch between light world and dark world (using the mirror? I don't know LTTP very well), I can't really remember. I had a conversation with tompa about this about a month ago, so I can't remember the specifics very well, please anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Current TAS:
[SNES] Jelly Boy
[NES] Street Fighter 2010
Actually, I think I was referring to the SNES version, not the GBA version. Having the Pegasus Boots and tapping A every other frame as you walk lets you walk across open holes and pits for some reason. Now, if I remember correctly, doing this in the large pit in the castle dungeon can lead you to one of a couple dungeons, including the second Light World dungeon.
After doing some more research, I found that if you do it and go kill the boss of whatever dungeon using this, you'll get his heart piece, and then instead of getting the pendant/crystal, it will give you the Ether Medallion. Going back through the dungeon again, you won't have to fight him, and the crystal/medallion will be on the ground when you go back in.
...granted, this is my internet research, a page off of GameFAQs, but I'm in process of testing this myself. I'll post the results when I get it. I'll probably make a movie file for it if it yields positive.
Considering that it takes particular places for Link to get out of a wall (maybe he won't at all, I believe Link actually walks below the floor, preventing his escape), this technique may not be as useful. If we find a way to exit a wall whenever, it could be a more useful strategy.
The way it works (roughly) is as follows:
To get for the different floors in the game, the game has to use layers. When you use EG, you trick the game into thinking that you are still on the same layer you were, but actually being in a place where you should be on a different layer. To get out of it, there are certain rooms you can enter that will get you out of it automatically.(?) (tompa has a map of things to do with EG and what the certain rooms do if you enter them) But I think you can also switch between light world and dark world (using the mirror? I don't know LTTP very well), I can't really remember. I had a conversation with tompa about this about a month ago, so I can't remember the specifics very well, please anyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I remember a video by Greenalink for the GBA version of the game where he uses the Magic Mirror in the third room of the Eastern Palace (the first dungeon). He falls through the floor and is now between layers.
You can jump out of a wall, as long as it is in a room with a higher part (so stairs that don't bring you to a different floor.)
This can only be done in the GBA version of the game.
But now that a new technique has been found we might be able to use it similarly, so we can more or less utilize the same route to get to useful items.
Here's Greenalink's video for reference:
Link to video
Now, about travelling between Light World and Dark World:
When you exit a Dark World dungeon, but initially entered a Light World Dungeon, the game thinks you are in the Light World, but it shows the Dark World sprites.
You can use the Magic Mirror to travel to the actual Dark World (normally can't be done) and using it again allows you to go back to the Light World.
This could be useful.
Actually, I think I was referring to the SNES version, not the GBA version.
I was using the gba version since I already had the rom downloaded due to TASing it a while back. :P
IMPblackbelt wrote:
After doing some more research, I found that if you do it and go kill the boss of whatever dungeon using this, you'll get his heart piece, and then instead of getting the pendant/crystal, it will give you the Ether Medallion. Going back through the dungeon again, you won't have to fight him, and the crystal/medallion will be on the ground when you go back in.
I wonder if this would save time in a glitched 100% run. :o
Also, I believe the other 2 refights in ganon's tower also drops full heart pieces, which means you can skip 12 pieces of heart using this trick.
QuizmasterBos wrote:
I remember a video by Greenalink for the GBA version of the game where he uses the Magic Mirror in the third room of the Eastern Palace (the first dungeon). He falls through the floor and is now between layers.
That's what I did in the input file I posted above too. Although looking back, I could've made the file a lot shorter since it's possible to just glitch through the staircases and go to ganon's tower as soon as I obtain the arrows, but whatever. :P
Tested this out using the SNES version. Going through the Desert Palace using the Pegasus Boots EG and killing Lanmolas will make him give you his heart container and instead of the pendant of power, you'll get the ether medallion instead. This is a fully usable item at this point in the game, too.
Here's the kicker. If you go back through the dungeon to get the pendant and the power grip, any puzzles you completed on your way through to Lanmolas will be completed and you will not be able to fight him a second time. The pendant will simply drop from above as if you'd just killed him, and completing it will return you to the entrance like it normally would.
EDIT (again): Okay, so I remade the movie and finally got it uploaded. This skips the actual glitching into the map, but the area is directly to the east of the Hyrule Castle dungeon according to the overall map. The movie file includes the actual exploration to go from point A to the hoppable spot that lets me go kill Lanmolas, then the effects of going back through the dungeon (after getting the Book of Mudora to get inside). I can open up the door to the boss because I have Hyrule Castle's big key, and that's where I entered from, but I have to get it in the Desert Palace to get the power wrist, anyway.
Tested this out using the SNES version. Going through the Desert Palace using the Pegasus Boots EG and killing Lanmolas will make him give you his heart container and instead of the pendant of power, you'll get the ether medallion instead. This is a fully usable item at this point in the game, too.
Here's the kicker. If you go back through the dungeon to get the pendant and the power grip, any puzzles you completed on your way through to Lanmolas will be completed and you will not be able to fight him a second time. The pendant will simply drop from above as if you'd just killed him, and completing it will return you to the entrance like it normally would.
EDIT (again): Okay, so I remade the movie and finally got it uploaded. This skips the actual glitching into the map, but the area is directly to the east of the Hyrule Castle dungeon according to the overall map. The movie file includes the actual exploration to go from point A to the hoppable spot that lets me go kill Lanmolas, then the effects of going back through the dungeon (after getting the Book of Mudora to get inside). I can open up the door to the boss because I have Hyrule Castle's big key, and that's where I entered from, but I have to get it in the Desert Palace to get the power wrist, anyway.
Hm....
Since you already have the SNES version, can you also try and see if you can get the heart piece repeatedly from the boss refights in Ganon's Tower? I'll try that on the GBA version and post later. :P
If I can get to the boss fight in Ganon's Tower... Does anyone have a blown-up version of the dungeon map data? It's harder to find than I anticipated, and the only one I've found so far is ridiculously small. :|
If I can get to the boss fight in Ganon's Tower... Does anyone have a blown-up version of the dungeon map data? It's harder to find than I anticipated, and the only one I've found so far is ridiculously small. :|
Er....
Do you have the GBA version? Here's an input file for that version that beats Ganon's Tower using only Magic Boomerang, Bow, Bombs and a Lamp. It starts with only 3 hearts because I didn't want to bore people who's just trying to see the end. :P
Oh, and it uses the staircase glitch instead of the mirror, but it should work regardless.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/9353859502892698
Edit: Oh, and it softlocks the game at the end, so after the Heart Container from Moldorm refight is obtain, you should save and reset to get out. :P
I'm not using the GBA version, I'm using the SNES version... I thought that's what this topic was for, not the Four Swords adventure.
Also, I don't think you can re-fight bosses. I couldn't re-fight the boss of the Desert Palace, the crystal simply dropped where it was.
Regardless, my knowledge of the game is very weak anymore. I had to relearn the game just to get to the point on my file... that I didn't post.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/9351479050244024
I'm not using the GBA version, I'm using the SNES version... I thought that's what this topic was for, not the Four Swords adventure.
Also, I don't think you can re-fight bosses. I couldn't re-fight the boss of the Desert Palace, the crystal simply dropped where it was.
Regardless, my knowledge of the game is very weak anymore. I had to relearn the game just to get to the point on my file... that I didn't post.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/9351479050244024
My .vbm plays through the Link to the Past, not Four swords adventure. >.>
Also, I was talking about the Lanmolas and Moldorm in GANON'S TOWER, not from Desert Palace and Tower of Hera. Last time I checked, the SNES version also contains those 2 in GANON'S TOWER. Or is the SNES version drastically different in that level?
Honestly, I have no idea. It's been forever and a day since I played through that game, and I would assume as close of a port as the Link to the Past/Four Swords GBA game is to the original SNES version, it would keep that. I have no idea about anything regarding the GBA version, or which of these glitches would carry over, if any.
Honestly, I have no idea. It's been forever and a day since I played through that game, and I would assume as close of a port as the Link to the Past/Four Swords GBA game is to the original SNES version, it would keep that. I have no idea about anything regarding the GBA version, or which of these glitches would carry over, if any.
Well, since it seems you haven't even bothered to download the WIP, here's a crappy encode of the route starting from Eastern Palace:
Link to video
Now can you please try that and see if the Heart Container obtained in that video is reobtainable on the SNES version?
I'm sorry, man. I don't mean any disrespect or anything; I hadn't played the GBA version before, and like I said, it's literally been years since I even played the game through at all. I just sorta jumped into this and remembered some glitches I felt might be useful, so I figured I'd jump in and help.
I was having trouble remembering the names for everything; it took me a few to even remember that I needed the Book of Mudora just to get into the Desert Palace. As for remembering the bosses and dungeons, I only know the names of a few of them, but I can tell you for sure after watching your test run that Moldorm and Lanmolas are definitely in Ganon's Tower in both versions; my memory might fail me, but this dungeon looks extremely familiar on every room and floor.
I think there's some sort of breakdown in communication here; I'm sorry if I missed something here, but let's see if we can get back on the right page. Now, I might be able to follow your route, but it would still help me if I could get my hands on an overall map of all the dungeons in the game data; also, you're using the Up+Down EG to manipulate yourself through the stairs, right? There's not some other glitch that I'm missing, here, too?
I'm sorry, man. I don't mean any disrespect or anything; I hadn't played the GBA version before, and like I said, it's literally been years since I even played the game through at all. I just sorta jumped into this and remembered some glitches I felt might be useful, so I figured I'd jump in and help.
I was having trouble remembering the names for everything; it took me a few to even remember that I needed the Book of Mudora just to get into the Desert Palace. As for remembering the bosses and dungeons, I only know the names of a few of them, but I can tell you for sure after watching your test run that Moldorm and Lanmolas are definitely in Ganon's Tower in both versions; my memory might fail me, but this dungeon looks extremely familiar on every room and floor.
I think there's some sort of breakdown in communication here; I'm sorry if I missed something here, but let's see if we can get back on the right page. Now, I might be able to follow your route, but it would still help me if I could get my hands on an overall map of all the dungeons in the game data; also, you're using the Up+Down EG to manipulate yourself through the stairs, right? There's not some other glitch that I'm missing, here, too?
For the maps, try the editing tool listed here. It's for the SNES version btw.
For the stairs glitch, it's pressing Up/Down + Left + Right. Up/Down is the same as the direction you're heading. Just don't press both Up and Down.
Alright, so I tested it out, and I found some... interesting effects. First off, I tested it out from the same save file in my previous .smv listed above. Thus, I already killed Lanmolas and got his heart container, his pendant, and the Ether Medallion. Now, everything went the same way as your video with the exception of some of the out of bound exploration zone rooms (the unused areas of the map) looked a tad different. Even the sprites were pretty much identical, from all the glitched ice and treadmill floor sprites to Aghanim's glitched-out looking lightning strikes.
It's important to note that both Lanmolas and Moldorm both dropped heart containers when defeated, even though I already killed Lanmolas and obtained one from him previously. That's definitely a time saver.
Now for the interesting part. Once the game took me to the Dark World, I actually had control. Link's sword and shield sprite looked black, but I was moving and fighting normally. However, once I moved one screen over, the game automatically loaded the Light World. Some blocks and sprites were slightly glitched, but it's definitely the Light World. Upon dying or quitting after, you only have the option of starting at Link's house or the sanctuary, so I have to do some more exploration to see if this has any lasting effects.
Tested this out using the SNES version. Going through the Desert Palace using the Pegasus Boots EG and killing Lanmolas will make him give you his heart container and instead of the pendant of power, you'll get the ether medallion instead. This is a fully usable item at this point in the game, too.
Here's the kicker. If you go back through the dungeon to get the pendant and the power grip, any puzzles you completed on your way through to Lanmolas will be completed and you will not be able to fight him a second time. The pendant will simply drop from above as if you'd just killed him, and completing it will return you to the entrance like it normally would.
EDIT (again): Okay, so I remade the movie and finally got it uploaded. This skips the actual glitching into the map, but the area is directly to the east of the Hyrule Castle dungeon according to the overall map. The movie file includes the actual exploration to go from point A to the hoppable spot that lets me go kill Lanmolas, then the effects of going back through the dungeon (after getting the Book of Mudora to get inside). I can open up the door to the boss because I have Hyrule Castle's big key, and that's where I entered from, but I have to get it in the Desert Palace to get the power wrist, anyway.
Watched it and I am not sure if it desynched or not. Are you supposed to die in the Lanmolas fight? IMPblackbelt wrote:
Also, I was talking about the Lanmolas and Moldorm in GANON'S TOWER, not from Desert Palace and Tower of Hera. Last time I checked, the SNES version also contains those 2 in GANON'S TOWER. Or is the SNES version drastically different in that level?
All 3 bosses from the Light World return in Ganon's Tower. There are barely any changes between the SNES and GBA versions of the game. Most is just sound effects.
The only thing that's quite different is in the 5th Dark World Dungeon, the Ice Palace. In the SNES version, you could get the Cane of Somaria from the Misery Mire and use it to skip a great deal of the dungeon, allowing you to get to the boss right away.
In the GBA version, you have to go through everything, because they made a small change to the room. Left-middle room is the room in question.
If you want to know what changed and why, don't hesitate to ask. I just don't want to post all that if you all know it already, that's all.
IMPblackbelt wrote:
I'm not using the GBA version, I'm using the SNES version... I thought that's what this topic was for, not the Four Swords adventure.
Also, I don't think you can re-fight bosses. I couldn't re-fight the boss of the Desert Palace, the crystal simply dropped where it was.
Regardless, my knowledge of the game is very weak anymore. I had to relearn the game just to get to the point on my file... that I didn't post.
You're in luck. Although I may not be too knowledgeable on glitches, I DO know a lot of the game. It's my favorite game of all time and every time I play it, I collect almost anything, so I should be able to help out on some particular parts.
Please ask me anything you wish to know.
You're in luck. Although I may not be too knowledgeable on glitches, I DO know a lot of the game. It's my favorite game of all time and every time I play it, I collect almost anything, so I should be able to help out on some particular parts.
Please ask me anything you wish to know.
Ok. Is this the normal location to get the magical boomerang:
Screenshots taken from the WIP I posted before. I'm asking this because I remembered getting this from the waterfall instead, unless it was changed?
Watched it and I am not sure if it desynched or not. Are you supposed to die in the Lanmolas fight?
I think that's a desync. I'm using snes9x v1.51 because my tools are all well out of date, and I might be using a different version of the game than you, so that might explain it.
I really do find it odd that the game puts you in the dark world if you glitch into Ganon's Tower and kill Aghanim again, and I know the game soft-locked on the GBA version, but it was really weird how the game transported me back to the light world just by transitioning the screen.
Any help I can get replaying this game would be... well, embarrassing, but appreciated. I don't want to make too much of a fool of myself, really, especially if I'm trying to help figure out useful glitches for a game that I haven't played in years. My knowledge of the differences of the GBA version is almost nothing, too, so an explanation on that particular change might be handy if that topic comes up again.
You're in luck. Although I may not be too knowledgeable on glitches, I DO know a lot of the game. It's my favorite game of all time and every time I play it, I collect almost anything, so I should be able to help out on some particular parts.
Please ask me anything you wish to know.
Ok. Is this the normal location to get the magical boomerang:
Screenshots taken from the WIP I posted before. I'm asking this because I remembered getting this from the waterfall instead, unless it was changed?
No, this is not the normal location. Because you are in the Dark/Light World the game gets confused somehow. Why the Boomerang is obtained from a random chest is unknown to me, but I do know this is a glitch.
I also remember you can go to the Waterfall of Wishing near the Witch's Cabin in the Dark/Light World and you can throw the Bow in there to receive Silver Arrows. This saves time over having to beat Dark World dungeon's 1 through 6, buying a Giant Bomb and using it to blow a hole into the Pyramid.
You can also get the Tempered Mastersword or Golden Sword this way.
IMPblackbelt wrote:
I really do find it odd that the game puts you in the dark world if you glitch into Ganon's Tower and kill Aghanim again, and I know the game soft-locked on the GBA version, but it was really weird how the game transported me back to the light world just by transitioning the screen.
That's because you haven't fought Agahnim yet. Once you reach him, the game thinks this is supposed to be the first Agahnim fight, which is why he doesn't split up like he is supposed to.
Now, if this is your second time defeating Agahnim, I am guessing the game does some kind of check for if you are in the Dark or Light World. I do not know though. It's just weird.
It could be a combination of things, but when I went to go kill Aghanim at the top of Hyrule Castle (supposed to be the first time), the game thought that was the first time, too. Same text, same fight, same everything except the flying part.
EDIT: So, I got curious and decided to try something stupid. It may just be the difference between versions, but I tried going back to the point after I glitched myself into Ganon's Tower and the 'second' Aghanim fight and went into the hole on top of the pyramid. The boss fight will trigger, and you'll get set against Ganon with your current equipment, but because I didn't have the Master Sword, even a charged spin couldn't touch him, so I couldn't do any damage to him at all. Unless there's some trick I'm unaware of to damage him with what underpowered gear I had, it seems a little useless until I at least get the Master Sword.
I did also go back later when I got the Master Sword, killed the 'first' Aghanim, and got some more dungeons under my belt, and because the hole is still there, we can effectively fight him at any time after that. If I'm reading the situation right, that could mean that using an EG to get into Ganon's Tower early would DEFINITELY save some time, effectively cutting out 8 heart pieces and the trek to/first segment of Ganon's Tower.
Alright. So, I decided to actually download and run the most recent version of Bizhawk, and I found something really weird. The Pegasus Boots levitation glitch doesn't work. I'm not sure if it's my version of LTTP or if it was an emulation issue with snes9x 1.51, but Bizhawk 1.5.1 with my version of LTTP does NOT do the Pegasus Boots levitation glitch.
This causes an issue for me, now, since the Moldorm fight in Ganon's Tower assumes you have the hookshot to escape the room, and I can't seem to replicate the bomb boost jlun2 used in his GBA movie file. Either I escape with the two heart containers via save/quit, or I find some other method to cross the gap, but for right now, I'm stuck. If I can get past the gap, I'll test out whether or not the second Aghanim fight does the same things or acts differently somehow.
Er...sorry for the length of the file, had to start from power on to prove that no cheats were used. It's at the end of the vbm btw :P
http://www.gamefaqs.com/gba/561559-the-legend-of-zelda-a-link-to-the-past/faqs/39041
According to this, the Lanmola refight normally wouldn't drop the heart piece. :o
If you want to know what changed and why, don't hesitate to ask. I just don't want to post all that if you all know it already, that's all.
Screenshots taken from the WIP I posted before. I'm asking this because I remembered getting this from the waterfall instead, unless it was changed?
