Hey, it's not EVERY battle that you get the HP to 1, that wouldn't be as fast. Actually I think there aren't really many battles where we use that. We basically follow the unassisted route only without all the safe strategies.
From all I've seen, it's basically get mario into peril, boost with peril boosting badges, use power attacks that deals tremendous damage with the boost and kill the bosses in one turn.
*shrug* Guess we'll see how it turns out.
Also, this game is also not only about battles.
Absolutely true, and that is also part of why it still be watchable even if the boss battles become boring.
Joined: 10/29/2013
Posts: 8
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Just found a little timesaver for 100%/All Badges runs (a quite obvious one, I think):
Link to video
It may be harder in RTA, but definitely saves some time in a TAS.
I can only hope more and more stuff will be discovered.
I'm looking forward your TAS! :D
- M.P.
Wouldn't it technically be faster to do this TAS on japanese, because you can leave your partner at 1hp between chapters? (whereas NTSC heals them) so you can use mega rush p with yoshi, for example? Or has that been looked into?
Only partners? That sounds like it would limit its use. :o
EEssentia, I don't see how you find a longer boss fight entertaining, and also we're going for speed. If we lose time just to appear as entertaining to people, we won't sub 5 hours, which I hope we can manage.
Kirbymastah, this is highly contradicting what I said to EEssentia but it would be less entertaining to see Japanese text for 5 hours instead of English. Also Kirby made his first TASes of this game on NTSC_U, so we decided to carry on with that version of the game.
Previous TASes:
Frogger's Adventures: The Rescue
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door any% x 8
Paper Mario 64
Luigi's Mansion
Sonic Heroes - Team Sonic
Mario Kart Wii ILs
I support your decision to use the fastest strategy. I can understand entertainment tradeoffs for small things, but not entire route changes based on it.
The only game where I wouldn't care for speed at all is Conkers Bad Fur Day, this would need to have every single cutscene ^_^
Current project: Gex 3 any%
Paused: Gex 64 any%
There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Maybe in the future, a TAS can be made that doesn't use Danger/Peril Mario, but it won't be this one that we're working on right now. I feel like it's best to get a speed-oriented run finished first before starting runs with other goals that may not even be publishable.
Also, I'll expand on Malleo's point. I started work on the original run in summer 2011, long before the "US version should usually be used" rule was amended. So it was only natural for me to start a TAS on the US version. Plus, there have always been documentation and known tricks and glitches for the US version, but the Japanese version-specific tricks have yet to be thoroughly looked into as well as tested to see if they save time on the speedrun route. The US version is also the one most, if not all, TTYD speedrunners use, so this isn't an OoT-type situation where the community largely prefers the J version. This game has a lot of text too, and it would be a lot harder for most of our viewers to follow along if they don't understand Japanese.
This game has a lot of text too, and it would be a lot harder for most of our viewers to follow along if they don't understand Japanese.
I've always found this argument really dubious after noticing the huge disparity in view counts of tases on youtube vs nico. It seems to me that the Japanese are the biggest audience. So if that is your concern, the Japanese version should be preferred.
Joined: 10/1/2013
Posts: 100
Location: My Basement
RachelB wrote:
This game has a lot of text too, and it would be a lot harder for most of our viewers to follow along if they don't understand Japanese.
I've always found this argument really dubious after noticing the huge disparity in view counts of tases on youtube vs nico. It seems to me that the Japanese are the biggest audience. So if that is your concern, the Japanese version should be preferred.
Well, if you wanna argue that, I can get into politics and nativism.
I'll just leave it at "Most English speakers can't speak Japanese, but most Japanese speakers speak English".
I don't really see how it'd be much less entertaining to see japanese text; people aren't watching TAS's to read text/plot. If people wanted that, they'd want to watch an LP. I can see people wanting to see what certain badges/attacks did and such, but that's something that can be left in the comments.
A TASer told me that using JP for only faster text is generally frowned upon in TASing, but IIRC the text doesn't make much of a difference, and if the lack of post-chapter auto-healing for partners allows for faster strats, than I don't see why not.
But again, your TAS, not mine. That's all I have to say about it really; just mostly wondering if partner peril has ever been looked into yet or not.
I don't really see how it'd be much less entertaining to see japanese text; people aren't watching TAS's to read text/plot. If people wanted that, they'd want to watch an LP. I can see people wanting to see what certain badges/attacks did and such, but that's something that can be left in the comments.
A TASer told me that using JP for only faster text is generally frowned upon in TASing, but IIRC the text doesn't make much of a difference, and if the lack of post-chapter auto-healing for partners allows for faster strats, than I don't see why not.
But again, your TAS, not mine. That's all I have to say about it really; just mostly wondering if partner peril has ever been looked into yet or not.
There was a long debate regarding this in one of the OoT submission threads regarding language. Also, regarding TAS's and text, seethesethreads.
Joined: 10/1/2013
Posts: 100
Location: My Basement
As for my personal preference, not regarding version-exclusive tricks...
Use Japanese, especially if any of the following are true:
- Game has no significant text
- Sequence breaks render the text useless or confusing (unless funny)
- Text boxes disappear almost immediately
But, if any of the following are true, use English:
- English text significantly improves entertainment, and not just for being the viewer's native language
- The TAS has already been started in English
Joined: 3/8/2012
Posts: 398
Location: Windfall Island
Well, the TWW TAS is in japanese purely for text. Charts and rupees are slower, deed skip is harder, only faster thing is barrier cutscene skip. TASVideos wont deny this or TWW just for being in Japanese lmao. But I agree with Fishaman, if its been started on U, its up to the author to choose to restart.
IronSlayer wrote:
Your counterargument would be like me saying that the Earth is round and then you telling me that I need to show it's flat so I can "prove us all wrong".
I think we're too far along now to restart. That would mean resyncing the entire run (basically redoing it, since this game does not hex well) as well as finding all new RAM addresses for a different version of the game and doing all the luck manipulation again (we just barely managed to get Mega Rush from Charlieton and Power Rush on sale at the end of Chapter 2).
Current:
Rayman 3 maybe? idk xD
Paused:
N64 Rayman 2 (with Funnyhair)
GBA SMA 4 : E Reader (With TehSeven)
TASVideos is like a quicksand, you get in, but you cannot quit the sand
No feedback on the WIP? Ok, it's up to me then..
Chapter 2 has much more walking and dialogue compared to 1, but the TAS has more than enough entertaining parts to make up for this. The highlight in my opinion were the parts where you manipulated the Punies. If I hadn't played the game before, I wouldn't have guessed that they're supposed to be part of puzzles (like in the room with the bubbles), because it looks like they're ignored completely. The only disappointing thing was the fact that you couldn't blow them down the hole in the cage in one go.
My favorite battle was of course the one with the Shadow Sirens. You made the timing for the star attack look trivial and got perfect luck - Exactly what I want to see in a TAS!
Keep it up guys, I'm already hyped for Chapter 3!
Current project: Gex 3 any%
Paused: Gex 64 any%
There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Joined: 10/1/2013
Posts: 100
Location: My Basement
Chapter 2 was a bit long-winded, but nothing compared to the hours I spent on single puzzles!
Good luck (pun intended) in Glitzville!
Also, for what it's worth, I would prefer a blue Yoshi. I don't think that will be possible, though, because it's based on how long you have been holding the egg.
Lol thanks. We accidentally missed a key part of our intermission between Chapter 2 and 3. We just fixed it (we had to store some items and get more thunder rages). We're currently finished with the Rank #13 battle and are working on getting the Yoshi Egg already. Conditions for battles are very easy to manipulate.
Previous TASes:
Frogger's Adventures: The Rescue
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door any% x 8
Paper Mario 64
Luigi's Mansion
Sonic Heroes - Team Sonic
Mario Kart Wii ILs
Lol thanks. We accidentally missed a key part of our intermission between Chapter 2 and 3. We just fixed it (we had to store some items and get more thunder rages). We're currently finished with the Rank #13 battle and are working on getting the Yoshi Egg already. Conditions for battles are very easy to manipulate.
I wonder what's the shortest name other than "A" that could be given to Yoshi? :P
Also, according to here, cooking a Mystery gives a random item. I wonder could that be used? For example, using it to get gold bars for easy cash, or trail stew to lower your hp to 1 immediately, etc.
It takes longer to get an extra item for Trail Stew to lower HP when we can just take damage in a battle. We'd have to sidetrack a lot in order to cook up a mystery inconveniently, so it's not really worth it.
Previous TASes:
Frogger's Adventures: The Rescue
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door any% x 8
Paper Mario 64
Luigi's Mansion
Sonic Heroes - Team Sonic
Mario Kart Wii ILs
I wonder what's the shortest name other than "A" that could be given to Yoshi? :P
The fastest method of naming him would be either selecting A or choosing to go with the default "Yoshi". They might take an equal amount of time; we won't know until we get there. But nothing other than A or Yoshi would be the fastest name.
Also, here's a fix to the end of Chapter 2. It changes up the items we buy in Westside Goods before we go to Chapter 3:
Link to video
Looking amazing. How do you manipulate the mystery item into giving you what you want? And on the topic of manipulation, how will you manipulate the glitz pit to giving you win conditions you want in the fights?
The mystery item can be manipulated by wasting frames in different spots in battle.
Also, Glitz Pit conditions change whenever you waste 1 frame, so they're extremely easy to optimize. We're already past Rank #13 and we're working on the Yoshi Egg and flight panel atm.
Previous TASes:
Frogger's Adventures: The Rescue
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door any% x 8
Paper Mario 64
Luigi's Mansion
Sonic Heroes - Team Sonic
Mario Kart Wii ILs
