1 2 3
Posted: 10/2/2010 9:17 PM
(Edited: 11/26/2013 11:30 AM)
Post subject: Bugs Bunny: Lost in Time
Quote
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
Bugs Bunny: Lost in Time is a 3D platforming game starring, you guessed it, Bugs Bunny. In the game Bugs accidentally activates a time machine and ends up lost in time, and he needs to gather Clock Symbols to return to the present, going through various ages in the process. The game's setup is similar to Super Mario 64: Bugs needs to gather 120 Clocks to finish the game, and goes through various hubs with various levels to do that. There's also magical spells obtained at certain levels to open up secrets and get more clocks, like SM64's caps. There are also Golden Carrots, another collectable item which is needed to open up certain levels (for more clocks). There are two endings for the game (although the only difference is the background during the credits): One for getting 120 clocks and going to Present, and another for getting all 124 clocks and all 333 Golden Carrots. The game is surprisingly linear for its setup. You often need to get all clocks of previous stages just to unlock the next stage. I've compiled a list of how many clocks there are in each stage (used to form a route): 
Clocks    G. Carrots  Requires (clocks unless stated otherwise)

Nowhere                          1        10          0

Stone Age                                 1           1
Wabbit on the run                9        22          1
Guess who needs a kick start     1        5           5
Wabbit or duck season            1        0           50 GCs
Magic hare blower                14       31          80

Pirate Years                              1           5
Hey, what's up, doc?             9        17          5
Follow the red pirate road       4        9           11*
When Sam met Bunny               1        2           35
Mine or Mine?                    10       41          100

The Thirties                              1           15
The big bank withdrawal          6        15          15
The greatest escape              6        15          25
Objects in the mirror...         4        15          50
La corrida                       1        5           150 GCs
The carrot factory               8        15          90

The Medieval Times                        1           30
What's cookin', doc?             15       37          30
Witch Way To Albuquerque?        1        8           65
The carrot-henge mystery         8        20          73
Downhill Duck                    1        0           250 GCs

The X-Dimension                           1           40
The Planet X file                14       26          40
Vort X Room                      4        0           60
The conquest of Planet X         1        14          70
Train Your Brain                 5        21          117

Total                            124      333

*"Follow The Red Pirate Road" requires the Super Jump spell obtained in "What's Cookin', Doc?".
**The Yellow Carrots available at each hub require 99 Carrots to obtain. Therefore, for 100% completion 99*5=495 regular carrots also need to be collected.
From that I have developed this 100% route: 
Stage                  (Clocks, Golden Carrots)

Start                   (0, 0)
Nowhere                 (1, 10)

Wabbit on the run       (10,32)
Guess Who Needs a...    (11,37)

Hey, what's up, doc     (20,54)

The Big Bank Withdrawal (26,69)
The Greatest Escape (1) (30,80)

What's Cookin' Doc (1)  (37,104)

F. Red Pirate Road (1)  (40,107)
When Sam met Bunny      (41,109)

The Planet X File       (55,135)

Objects in the mirror.. (59,150)
The Greatest Escape (2) (61,154)
La Corrida              (62,159)

Vort X Room             (66,159)

Wabbit or Duck Season   (67,159)

Witch Way To Albuquer.. (68,167)
What's Cookin' Doc (2)  (72,179)

F. Red Pirate Road (2)  (73,185)

The Carrot-Henge Myst.. (81,205)
What's Cookin' Doc (3)  (85,206)

Magic Hare Blower       (99,237)

The Carrot Factory      (107,252)

Mine or Mine?           (117,293)

Downhill Duck           (118,293)

Conquest of Planet X    (119,307)
Train Your Brain        (124,328)

Hub Golden Carrots*     (124,333)

*hub Golden Carrots will be collected in between stages, not necessarily at the end (that's time-inefficient, not to mention impossible because 99 carrots is the max you can hold at any 1 time)
**The revisits (marked with (1), (2) etc.) are necessary due to these stages requiring spells to get all clocks. These spells can only be obtained after visiting these stages at least once.
***Empty spaces inbetween level names indicate switching times. Yes, that happens surprisingly often.
Unfortunately, in PCSX the game freezes at the cutscene after finishing the tutorial part of Nowhere, so the game can't be TASed yet. The sound emulation's also poor, but that is a comparatively minor issue. EDIT: Edited route.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 10/2/2010 10:03 PM
Quote
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
I was actually thinking of starting this project next year... Didn't try the game in PCSX... too bad about the freezing :( Probably the same problem as Crash Bandicoot 2. Played this game A LOT when I was younger, I still play it every now and then. Hopefully I can provide assistance during the project, perhaps even co-run if that is OK with you and if I have the time when the project is actually doable.
Posted: 10/2/2010 10:23 PM
Quote
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
I tried using the Eternal SPU to see if it fixed matters as it does with Crash 2... no luck. In fact, with Eternal the game in addition to freezing also barfs at the framerate, bringing it down to 7 FPS on my PC. So yeah, that won't work. And I wouldn't mind co-running with you to do this, considering it's going to be a fairly big project.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 10/3/2010 12:46 PM
Quote
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
Keep in mind I never TASed anything on PSX before, just some SNES and GBA. This is a video that does the cleanup of The Greatest Escape without the music-power: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPQlWnZQy1w Should save us a re-visit to the 30's by taking the clean-up when we do "La Corrida" and "Objects in the Mirror..." instead. (Not my video, but I found this glitch some years back... so did this guy) Also sometimes it is possible to stand in the air... but I have no idea how that works, never managed to do so myself. If we figure it out and make it consistent this shall provide some nice shortcuts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmf8zQ77IfQ
Posted: 10/9/2010 7:42 PM
Quote
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
I've been making a testrun of this game, using a cheat to bypass the freezing tutorial cutscene (and starting from a savestate). It completes Wabbit on the run, the first normal level. PXM file I played through it with the Eternal SPU Plugin Lite 1.41 sound plugin, so it may not be sync-stable. Things I've learned about the game: -Sometimes Golden Carrots have a frame rule, meaning that sometimes a GC is not collectible until some time has passed. This can take up to several seconds. -Merlin really hates PCSX, as he also freezes the game around when he asks you to save after finishing a level. With Eternal it also kills the framerate, bringing it down to 7FPS. -The music loops are bugged in some cases. The Stone Age theme shuts off after some time (it goes on longer if you use savestates) and kills the framerate when it tries to loop. (Other songs seem to loop fine, e.g. Pirate Years theme) -There's a one frame gap after pausing and exiting a level to collect clocks (and probably other items). This saves a couple of seconds when ending a level collecting a clock, since it skips the get clock animation. -Camera position manipulation will be used a lot for optimized movement. @Warepire: That Greatest Escape trick is nice, it'll definitely save time. But the standing on air glitch is probably just a minor collision detection issue that's unlikely to be consistently reproducable.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 10/9/2010 8:26 PM
Quote
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
I can't get the movie to sync during the second half of Wabbit on the Run (tried Eternal, Midas and TAS SPUs)... is the test run supposed to be 100% or any%? Because it seems like you're skipping the bottom area of part two (or maybe that is the de-sync talking because you fall of the edge during a roll during playback) But regarding part one... it looks to me like there is a way to get around that mountain without using the rabbit hole... or does an invisible wall keep you from it? I don't remember and I do not have the time to try it out right now. Regarding those carrots... When I play normally on console I never experienced such a delay, can this be a emulator inaccuracy of some sort? Either with cool down or hit boxes?
Posted: 10/9/2010 8:37 PM
Quote
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
Warepire wrote:
I can't get the movie to sync during the second half of Wabbit on the Run (tried Eternal, Midas and TAS SPUs)... is the test run supposed to be 100% or any%? Because it seems like you're skipping the bottom area of part two (or maybe that is the de-sync talking because you fall of the edge during a roll during playback)
It's supposed to be 100%. I get to the bottom area after finishing the top area. Mm, now it seems to desync for me as well. Try running from this savestate which is between the first and second golden carrots of the second part. For me it syncs from there (even though I saved that state straight from the input file up to that point... stupid desyncs).
Warepire wrote:
But regarding part one... it looks to me like there is a way to get around that mountain without using the rabbit hole... or does an invisible wall keep you from it? I don't remember and I do not have the time to try it out right now.
There's an invisible wall there. I tried.
Warepire wrote:
Regarding those carrots... When I play normally on console I never experienced such a delay, can this be a emulator inaccuracy of some sort? Either with cool down or hit boxes?
I think it's an emulator bug. I'm not really sure, though.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 10/9/2010 9:39 PM
Quote
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
Now it synced with Eternal. All other plug-ins still cause the de-sync I had before. For now I cannot think of any improvements... but planning never was my strong side (thus no published movies yet)
Posted: 2/27/2011 10:07 AM
Quote
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
Just mentioning that with the PSXjin official release, the cutscene freeze bug still remains.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 2/27/2011 11:46 AM
Quote
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
That's a shame, currently teaching myself emulator development, perhaps I can find the problem once I believe I have enough knowledge. Looking forward to running this game (and a few others).
Posted: 9/2/2011 4:20 PM
Quote
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
Bump. No emulation issues are resolved still, but I did find out something else: it's possible to get 9 clocks initially in What's Cookin' Doc, rather than 7. What do these two clocks mean to the route? Quite a bit, actually. About three moments of era-changing are saved. I updated the route to below: 
Stage                  (Clocks, Golden Carrots)

Start                   (0, 0)
Nowhere                 (1, 10)

Wabbit on the run       (10,32)
Guess Who Needs a...    (11,37)

Hey, what's up, doc     (20,54)

The Big Bank Withdrawal (26,69)
The Greatest Escape (1) (30,80)

What's Cookin' Doc (1)  (39,104)

F. Red Pirate Road (1)  (42,107)
When Sam met Bunny      (43,109)

The Planet X File       (57,135)

Objects in the mirror.. (61,150)
The Greatest Escape (2) (63,154)
La Corrida              (64,159)

Vort X Room             (68,159)

Witch Way To Albuquer.. (69,167)
What's Cookin' Doc (2)  (73,179)
The Carrot-Henge Myst.. (81,199)
What's Cookin' Doc (3)  (83,200)

Wabbit or Duck Season   (84,200)
Magic Hare Blower       (98,231)

The Carrot Factory      (106,246)

F. Red Pirate Road (2)  (107,252)
Mine or Mine?           (117,293)

Downhill Duck           (118,293)

Conquest of Planet X    (119,307)
Train Your Brain        (124,328)

Hub Golden Carrots*     (124,333)

*hub Golden Carrots will be collected in between stages, not necessarily at the end (that's time-inefficient, not to mention impossible because 99 carrots is the max you can hold at any 1 time)
**The revisits (marked with (1), (2) etc.) are necessary due to these stages requiring spells to get all clocks. These spells can only be obtained after visiting these stages at least once.
***Empty spaces inbetween level names indicate switching times. Yes, that happens surprisingly often.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 9/2/2011 5:21 PM
Quote
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
That's a very nice find Mothrayas and an excellent time saver! I have looked at the PSXjin source code and tried to debug my way to the crash but so far it's very slow and agonizing (when debugging I can only get 4 FPS at best, mostly I am getting 5-6 spf [seconds per frame]). I have done the TNT box part of the intro level, it took me half a day or so (not counting the cut-scenes before it). This will take a very long time.
Posted: 8/27/2013 4:43 PM
Quote
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
Necro-bumping because I finally found useful RAM addresses in this game. And in the process discovered a neat trick in the first level. In Nowhere it is possible to get one of the Golden Carrots without activating the sign, and that is the GC in the mallet practice. Throwing a box so that it lands on the target will release the GC, perhaps doing it this way after completing the box climbing practice will be faster if it's possible to throw the box from top of tree trunk so that it lands on the target, it looks promising. And the RAM watch file: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/8897786702384958 Game is still un-TASable :( My debugging efforts some years earlier failed to give something.
Posted: 9/8/2013 2:59 AM
Quote
Sticky
Joined: 2/26/2007
Posts: 1365
Location: Minnesota
I remember this game. I don't remember if I actually liked it, or if I had nothing better to do. I look forward to a run in the future, though!
adelikat wrote:
I very much agree with this post.
Bobmario511 wrote:
Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.
Posted: 11/11/2013 8:31 AM
Quote
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2642)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6438
Location: The land down under.
Flash TASer of 2022 PSX TASer of 2016
Dang.. Moth, I want to see your old route to this. I just wanna see what you did... but that doesn't exist so I cannot post anything due to missing files and probably recalling stuff that was in the pxm
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Posted: 11/18/2013 10:55 PM
Quote
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
You mean the testrun WIP/movie? I don't have it anymore, so you'd have to hope someone such as Warepire perhaps still has it lying around somewhere. Though I personally doubt someone still has it. That movie is over 3 years old by now. Then again, I don't think the movie is that special or amazing - it just goes through a single early stage at old testrun quality. And it probably would desync somewhere. I'm still waiting for a better PSX emulator/PSXHawk to come around so I can try doing something serious with this game again.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 11/19/2013 8:32 AM
Quote
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
I didn't keep it either, sorry. But I can say that it just completed the first Stone Age level, which isn't that much of an interesting level. I am also waiting for an emulator that can handle this game, it needs to be TASed, and this could very well be the game that gets me into TASing 3D platformers.
Posted: 11/25/2013 3:11 PM
Quote
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
Yesterday I decided to install this game on PC again to play around with it a bit, checking out the route, and verifying the data for route planning. (Turns out I made a few mistakes, the most major one being Wabbit or Duck Season requiring 50 golden carrots, not 55 clocks. I also verified what can be collected in revisit stages on each runthrough). I also wrote a bot to work out the fastest route (with the least and shortest time transitions). With it, I formed this route: 
Stage                          (Clocks, Golden Carrots)

Nowhere                        (1,  10)

Wabbit on the Run              (10, 32)
Guess Who Needs A Kick Start   (11, 37)

Hey, What's Up, Doc?           (20, 54)

The Big Bank Withdrawal        (26, 69)
The Greatest Escape (1)        (31, 82)

What's Cookin', Doc?           (32, 82)

Follow The Red Pirate Road (1) (43, 109)
When Sam met Bunny             (44, 111)

The Planet X File              (58, 137)

The Greatest Escape (2)        (59, 139)
Objects in the Mirror...       (63, 154)
La Corrida                     (64, 159)

Vort X Room                    (68, 159)

Witch Way to Albuquerque?      (69, 167)
What's Cookin', Doc? (2)       (73, 179)
The Carrot-Henge Mystery       (81, 199)
What's Cookin', Doc? (3)       (83, 200)

Wabbit or Duck Season          (84, 200)
Magic Hare Blower              (98, 231)

The Carrot Factory             (106, 246)

Mine or Mine?                  (116, 287)
Follow the Red Pirate Road (2) (117, 293)

Downhill Duck                  (118, 293)

The Conquest of Planet X       (119, 307)
Train Your Brain               (124, 328)

Hub Golden Carrots*            (124, 333)

*Hub Golden Carrots are collected in between stages whenever the carrot count reaches 99
**Revisits (marked (1), (2), etc are due to spells acquired later on required to collect everything in the stage
***Empty spaces mark time/era changes.
Turns out it's actually very similar to the second route I already posted up a few years ago. At least this confirms the route is basically optimal. The only thing I haven't checked yet is whether it's possible to skip getting some items on the first runthrough of revisit stages, so they can be collected faster in the revisit instead. However, there doesn't seem to be a lot of room for missing items.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 11/25/2013 3:30 PM
(Edited: 11/25/2013 4:02 PM)
Quote
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
I like the looks of this route. I tried delaying things to avoid time jumps, using the hub-carrots to make sure carrot-levels could still be entered, it's simply not possible to eliminate a single visit or time-jump as of now. The first blocker is The Vort-X Room, if we cannot visit that stage, we won't have enough clocks for Witch Way To Albaquerque. The only possible improvement to the route would be if 4 hub carrots are collected before the gap between The Carrot Factory and Mine or Mine?, which MIGHT save a few frames if it's fewer choice switches between 1930s > Medieval Period > Pirate Years > Dimension X, than 1930s > Pirate Years > Medieval Period > Dimension X. That's basically the entire possible improvement to the route that I can find. I also extended your route planning table slightly to help me while doing the calculations The table now looks like this: EDIT: Table removed as it was out-dated, see post above this. My time-jump order change proposal is however unaffected by the new table and IMO should still be tested.
Posted: 11/25/2013 3:40 PM
Quote
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
Did you use the (deleted) route I posted yesterday? I did some more bot checks and found out the new route (posted above) should be faster, saving 1 time skip. Unfortunately, it disallows going for Vort X Room directly after The Planet X File, but it should still turn out faster this way. Also, I checked out what's can be obtained and what's necessary in the revisit stages for the route: What's Cookin', Doc? (1): 9 Clocks, 24 Golden Carrots. Minimum required: 6 Clocks, 20 Golden Carrots (depending on how many Hub GCs are collected at that point). The clocks are required to have 65 clocks to enter Witch Way To Albuquerque?. However, the remaining clocks would have to be collected during the second visit anyway, because otherwise there aren't enough clocks to enter The Carrot-Henge Mystery (73 clocks). What's Cookin' Doc? (2): (assuming everything in (1) is collected): 4 Clocks, 12 Golden Carrots. Minimum required: All 4 clocks, and any amount of Golden Carrots. Golden Carrots are only needed for Downhill Duck, which is done much later, when we have plenty more than enough GCs, and What's Cookin' Doc is fully done by that point anyway. What's Cookin' Doc? (3): (assuming everything in (1) and (2) is collected): 2 Clocks and 1 Golden Carrot. One of the clocks is from the ACME boxes. The Greatest Escape (1): 5 Clocks, 13 Golden Carrots. Minimum required: 4 Clocks, any amount of Golden Carrots. The clocks are required for What's Cookin' Doc. The Golden Carrots aren't necessary until the revisit, assuming La Corrida is done after the revisit. The Greatest Escape (2): (assuming everything in (1) is collected): 1 Clock and 2 Golden Carrots. The only clock remaining is the ACME boxes one. Follow the Red Pirate Road (1): 3 Clocks and 3 Golden Carrots. All clocks are required to have 73 clocks by the time The Carrot-Henge Mystery needs to be done. The Golden Carrots can be left out, but it also depends on the amount of Golden Carrots skipped in What's Cookin' Doc (1). Follow the Red Pirate Road (2): 1 Clock and 6 Golden Carrots.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 11/25/2013 3:58 PM
Quote
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
You updated your route while I was doing the calculations, I started about an hour ago. Your newly proposed route also came across my mind, but I discarded it as impossible, nice job there! Also the part where I spotted the possible improvement remains unaffected by your change, so my possible improvement should still be up for debate.
Posted: 11/25/2013 4:08 PM
Quote
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
Warepire wrote:
Also the part where I spotted the possible improvement remains unaffected by your change, so my possible improvement should still be up for debate.
It seems to take the same amount of time switching that way. 1930s > Medieval (diff 2) Medieval > Pirate (diff 1) Pirate > Dimension X (diff 2) Total time difference of 5 1930s > Pirate (diff 1) Pirate > Medieval (diff 1) Medieval > Dimension X (diff 3) Also total time difference of 5. I guess it's possible to put Downhill Duck in there if we already have 4 hub GCs by then (we probably should at least be close to 4 by that point), but it doesn't seem to matter timewise.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 11/25/2013 4:10 PM
Quote
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
Darn :( Then the most entertaining path should be taken.
Posted: 11/25/2013 4:19 PM
Quote
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4124)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4090
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
Also, I think we need to look more into saving time by using the revisits as optimal as possible. Like I noted a few posts back, not all items are required to be obtained in the revisits the first time. For instance, in What's Cookin' Doc, saving the clock in the spiral tower (and a GC there) until the 3rd visit would slow down the overall route (adding a time switch that costs ~10 seconds?) but would mean the spiral tower only needs to be climbed once, in the 3rd visit (when you also can collect the ACME box there). That would probably save at least 30 seconds. I'm thinking about whether there are other items that would save a significant amount of time by collecting them during the revisits instead of the first runthrough. The next closest thing I can think of is the clock in the hidden forest area in What's Cookin' Doc, which also has an ACME Box close to it. However, that one probably costs more time in the route than it saves.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 11/25/2013 4:37 PM
Quote
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
I was thinking about that as well, but kept coming up short of either clocks or carrots somewhere no matter how I re-ordered the route. Maybe if you can PM me a copy of your program (assuming it's a Windows program)? It might help me find stuff.
1 2 3