Hey, cool stuff.
Looks like glitch 1 saves 15 frames in your example, but I still think the old way looks cooler! Oh well.
If I get your meaning right, glitch 2 could possibly save time in levels 2 and 7 since some time is lost getting the sword upgrade in those levels, but it sounds like it would cost time to set up too so who knows. Also, the sword upgrade could likely be skipped entirely in level 2 to save some time, but I never bothered to check that.
Hey Marx,
If you're going for a submission then you'd best figure out why you lost the three frames in 2-2D. Very important to watch Ryu's subpixel positions if you're going to improve on this, particularly in vertical scrolling areas.
Here is my memory watch file from when I made the TAS, which may or may not be of some help:
DB X_pos|[scroll]
83 Y_pos|[scroll]
| |
C4 Mans
CD Ninpo
5F Stage
55E X_speed
49C Enemy2
576 Y_sub
58E Y_pos
4FE X_sub
FD X_pos
59 |
| |
82 |
546 Wind|Speed
CE Max|Ninpo
| |
5D6 Y_speed
A8 Enemy1
AD Inv
59 Y_sub|[scroll]
DA X_sub|[scroll]
84 Screen_pos
Nice improvement on Xipo's example of the attack-wrap glitch in 5-3: 78 frames faster than the published run! Shame that it kills what was one of my favorite boss fights though. ;p
Does it work with special weapons too, or just the sword? If it does then maybe the windmill star could get in the first hit even earlier.
I forgot to ask before, but have you tested whether getting the sword upgrade in stage 2 actually saves time? I expect not having it would make you slow down for the fireball in 2-2D at the very least, but I never did check if it saves more time on the boss than it takes to go out of the way to grab it.
Also this might be relevant if it works:
Xipo wrote:
Glitch 2
I can't reproduce it.In good time(Ryu is taken damage when entering BOSS's room),Ryu will not lost "long sword" and "忍" after BOSS fighting.
Joined: 3/23/2012
Posts: 296
Location: In X position=50 y position=20
Hmm....
I tried what xipo mention.
It didn't happen even once.
I that glitch1 works with other weapon too.Its becoming even more handy now at stage 3 you can kill those flying dudes without turning back.
Jungon wrote:
if I was to have a Tool-Assisted real life ... I'd..
I could abuse death, just to see if it saves time ..
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
I was thinking about this game and messed around some. Here is a lua script you can use to display coords onscreen and get frame rewinding.
I started and got about a pixel ahead of Marx at the beginning of 1-1B from subpixel optimization. Then an enemy behaves differently so it may not help after all. I don't think I will continue but I hope this lua helps.
Noticed on vertical scrolling areas that the highest positioning is when the screen scroll subpixel and player subpixel are both 0. It is hard to tweak though so it may not be worth worrying about in most situations.
http://runeaxetas.googlecode.com/files/NinjaGaiden3.zip
Joined: 3/23/2012
Posts: 296
Location: In X position=50 y position=20
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/3277344841624196
some improvement are made and maybe more can be gain( stage 2 boss is 1 frame slower)
Edit: okay. I've revisit the first stage and found that my strategy was more important than theaxeman's.
When I'm jump off from third wall climbing I penetrate the platform but theaxeman's somehow fail
Jungon wrote:
if I was to have a Tool-Assisted real life ... I'd..
I could abuse death, just to see if it saves time ..
Hi! Everyone! I have a question about which version(u/j) should I use for a new run, because I found some improvement of this game, there are new glitches can be used in the (J) version only. In (J) version, I found a method with password to access to the 1st stage, this is faster than press start, but I am not sure whether it breaks the rule.
Hi! Everyone! I have a question about which version(u/j) should I use for a new run, because I found some improvement of this game, there are new glitches can be used in the (J) version only. In (J) version, I found a method with password to access to the 1st stage, this is faster than press start, but I am not sure whether it breaks the rule.
If that's the only new thing I wouldn't change just for that (it doesn't show any technical skill or anything interesting about the game)
But if you would have swapped to (J) for other time saving glitches go ahead and swap
Joined: 3/23/2012
Posts: 296
Location: In X position=50 y position=20
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11934142588893090
this glitch,
anyone knows where it might be applicable?
Also it doesn't work on other stages.
Edit:
ok checked Rum's movie.It worked on every stages.
Is there any chances we are getting this on U?
Jungon wrote:
if I was to have a Tool-Assisted real life ... I'd..
I could abuse death, just to see if it saves time ..
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Interesting! It seems that hitting the enemy at the bottom of the screen causes the ninja to vanish and messes up vertical movement. You can still grab hangable ceilings and when you move off of them you don't fall. But if you grab a moving platform you keep its momentum and if you go too far up or down you die. In this case you can recover by grabbing a moving platform and using it to grab the bottom of a stable platform that happens to be at the same level as the exit. After that the ninja goes on as if nothing special happened.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/13617507608379158
It seems unlikely that this glitch could be useful unless you can find other ways to recover. The vertical or diagonal moving platforms are pretty rare.
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Pacifist test run!
I'm surprised that we don't have any Ninja Gaiden pacifist runs yet. Out of the original trilogy this one is least suited for a pacifist run. But it's my favorite and I wanted to TAS it again. It turned out to be a pretty cool run. I think there are at least 10-20 seconds of improvement left that could bring this within a minute of the any% run. Of course I play the USA version because it is much harder and is the only way to go for a TAS.
In a pacifist run the sword stays sheathed except on bosses. No ninja arts on the levels either. No powerups are collected so each boss must be defeated with the little sword and the one windmill star that you start each act with.
Taking damage is both permissible and desirable to speed things up. In fact, dying in the second half of an act to refill life often saves time. I had expected to do this in almost every act and continue twice to get more lives but was happily surprised that I was able to find so many tricks to get through without damage. It turns out that I really need to rethink things because in act 7 I discovered a glitch that allows for cheating death a bit. The next version will probably use that glitch a few more times and definitely not continue.
I studied the internals of the game much more deeply than my first attempts at this game over ten years ago. There are a lot of neat glitches and tricks that come up in a pacifist run simply because the any% run just kills everything in sight. I will update the resource page for this game. There are also a few doubtful claims there that should be clarified or cut.
rum mentioned randomness in his submission text but didn't give many details. With how tightly optimized his run is I suspect he knows all these juicy details:
* There is a limit of 8 enemies on screen at once. If you are at the limit then no more enemies will spawn! This might be common knowledge but important to keep in mind for this run. It becomes quite useful in certain places where there are a lot of enemies. Enemy projectiles count too.
* There is a counter at address 005E that controls quite a few things. It is always counting and never resets so it could cause problems with cutting and pasting input.
* Hit detection between you and the enemies only happens every 4th frame. It is based on that counter. This effectively means that when you slip past the corner of an enemy you may or may not get hit. You can also abuse this to move through the laser beams on the 3 frames between hit detection and only duck every 4th frame.
* The counter value controls how high the little jumping enemies jump. More important in a pacifist run since you can't just pop them.
* The counter also controls the falling debris pattern on the act 6 boss. This is more important in the pacifist run since without powerups there is no way you can take him out before his first charge.
* Enemies get subpixels too. When an enemy spawns the subpixel that the last enemy had does not get reset. This leads to subtle but potentially significant ties between enemies. They do get reset with cutscenes as do your subpixels.
* Shambling walker enemies may move one direction or the other on vertical scrolling sections. They spawn slightly above the ground where they walk. Each frame they fall they switch directions. The number of frames they fall might vary depending on their subpixel; sometimes it is always one frame. This is one of the bigger subpixel issues.
