This is a TAS of Doom 64 on Watch my Die (Ultra-Violence in other Doom games) in 41:22 (last input).
For a competition, the fastest time of this game is 1:15:56 (on Speed Demos Archive) by peaches_
Game objectives:
Emulator used: Mupen64-rerecording 0.5
Aims for a fastest time
Highest difficulty
Skipped and entered the secret maps to save the time
Takes damage to save the time
Tricks:
Trick 1: on Earth maps (1-8) there are some pedestals with computers, switches and so on.
If you run enough fast, you have a CHANCE (not always) to get the key without moving the pedestal down.
Trick 2: if you enough close to the door, but sth blocks you (wall, monster), you can open it anyway.
Trick 3: the is a gltich which allows you to pull down the key without going up using the scattering of the super shotgun.
Map by map comments and explanations:
Note: there are lots of 'Places Where You Must Kill Monsters' to go forward (PWYMKM)!
Map 1: simple map, no comments.
Map 2: this is the map where I got the blue and yellow keys earlier using trick 1. Punching imps for some entertainment (unfortunately, nowhere else in the run).
Map 3: entering the engineering room fastly to save the time. Took the invulnerabelty to save the health and kill cacodemons calmly. This is the first PWYMK - two cacodemons to active the lift.
Map 4: another PWYMKM in the start room. I didn't entered the secret stage to save the time, but this stage had a powerful gun which could help me in some places =(
Map 5: no comments, nice watch!
Map 6: killed the cacodemon to "move his clone" on lift next to it! Strange glitch! If I hadn't killed it, it will totally block the lift after I finish the case on right side of the map!
Map 7: that was a nice "jump" to the exit door, isn't it?
Map 8: in the passage with super shotgun should be nightmare imps, but they appeared after I took it. Matter of luck!
Map 9: killing all monsters step by step. I don't know what does the switch on the other side of the exit switch!
Map 10: when I entered the area with switch and teleport in the sewer, there should appear 2 barons of hell to block me! Solution: don't kill the last pinky before entering this area.
Map 11: there are 3 PWYMK all monsters, but I killed more in different rooms to use the switch/go forward.
Map 12 and secret 2: entered the secret exit to get the demon artifact to save the time: you don't have to pass all the map and the secret map is also small.
Map 13: the switch the small room after blue door couldn't been switched for a few seconds, so I took some rockets.
Map 14: a PWYMK at the start - all barons of hell. Took the BFG to save time.
Map 15: Another use of trick 1.
Map 16: Shorted the way and took mega armour.
Map 17: Cyberdemon took 3-4 shots from BFG anyway =(
Map 18: Long map, PWYMK also was.
Map 19: A use of trick 2 on the last door.
Map 20: A use of trick 3, also PWYMK.
Map 21: Unfortunately, trick 1 doesn't work on this stage with a key.
Map 22: Was a PWYMK, notheing unusual.
Map 23: 2 PWYMKs. There is a place where you should enter 3 key switches to open doors with switches which open the exit.
Map 24: My energy cells ended, so I killed 3rd cyberdemon with a rocket launcher.
Map 25: Nothing hard. The end!
Why I didn't run ahd strafe on first 7 maps??
I needed to kill monsters out of my way after shotguns reload, because most rooms are narrow and I just couldn't run past them!
I could forget something! Ask in comments, please.
Hi, Dimon12321, and huge thanks for all your effort! This is a game lots of people are eager to see well TASed. And there are quite some experts that have a lot of knowledge of how it works. And it is a very complicated game. As a result, we have a game that's actually very hard to TAS up to the level that even the experts would have nothing to add, which appears to be the level of quality at TASVideos. It's pretty sane: if only people who don't know the game very well could enjoy the run, but those who are well familiar with it see many improvements, it can't be considered optimal. In many cases, it's the opposite: if tips and tricks known from the experts are applied, the run is rather optimal, even if some unaware people don't enjoy it. But with this game, all would enjoy the optimal run, maybe it would even get a Star, as the other famous FPS game TAS got.
So, I'm joining the others' desire and asking you to resume this project, applying the tricks other members posted, and posting your own works-in-progress in the Doom 64 thread. This is how our best TASes are done: make sure a segment is optimal, only then move on. It may take several months, but honestly, the longer the run is being done, the better (and the faster) it is in the end. Good luck!
I voted 'no' after watching your submission and considering the detailed suggestions given by other members. I agree with them in that, while your run is superior to human RTAs, there are still many obvious improvements that can still be made.
I hope this doesn't discourage you. If taken constructively, this can definitely make you a better TASer; and I would certainly look forward to seeing an updated submission from you in the future!
Also hardest difficulty is the standard for FPS TAS's.
I never played Doom so this was pretty interesting to watch. Like others have said its not up to par with the knowledge that is out there.
Really what should have happened was work in progress videos instead of just the final video coming out. That way the doom speedrunners could have caught you early on to help you with your TAS.
All in all, I will leave my vote out.. Since on one hand I did find it entertaining, but after reading what it could have been if more time and care was taken, I'd say no. Therefore abstaining.
I almost always agree that a TAS should be the hardest difficulty possible, but in the case of Doom, the games often have an exceedingly unfair highest difficulty. According to the Skill Level page from Doom Wikia:
http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Skill_level#Doom_64_skill_levels
Doom 64 has 4 difficulty levels, with Watch me die! being hardest. Apparently, difficulty only changes the amount of monsters. Of course, here at TASvideos, we need to know more. In some Doom games, the player takes extremely higher damage, and enemies are much tougher and faster. If Doom 64 only adjusts the spawns, I'd say the TAS should be on Watch me die!... unless it's an unreasonably high amount of monsters (but Hyper Princess Pitch made it work!).
And finally... don't be too sad if it doesn't get published! This is a great framework for what could happen with some collaboration. What ends up being published doesn't need to be 101% perfect, it just needs some cleaning up. :]
Currently obsessed with: Mega Man 2 hacks, SFA3, Super Metroid Zero Mission, MM8BDM (Skulltag MegaMan mod, it's amazing!)
I almost always agree that a TAS should be the hardest difficulty possible, but in the case of Doom, the games often have an exceedingly unfair highest difficulty.
Doom 64 as a community (as small as it is) does both the easiest and hardest difficulties mostly because the two runs promote different ideas. The lack of enemies in Be Gentle provides the player more ease and less blocking enemies to run at the extreme speed that Doom 64's protagonist can run at. Watch Me Die also uses the runspeed multipliers, but the heart and soul of that run is in the manipulation and defeat of enemies and management of health/ammo/armor. Both runs offer different things, both have value. The TAS in my opinion would be valid for both, but seeing a Watch Me Die TAS would impress me more personally.
I almost always agree that a TAS should be the hardest difficulty possible, but in the case of Doom, the games often have an exceedingly unfair highest difficulty.
I almost always agree that a TAS should be the hardest difficulty possible, but in the case of Doom, the games often have an exceedingly unfair highest difficulty. According to the Skill Level page from Doom Wikia:
http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Skill_level#Doom_64_skill_levels
Doom 64 has 4 difficulty levels, with Watch me die! being hardest. Apparently, difficulty only changes the amount of monsters. Of course, here at TASvideos, we need to know more. In some Doom games, the player takes extremely higher damage, and enemies are much tougher and faster. If Doom 64 only adjusts the spawns, I'd say the TAS should be on Watch me die!... unless it's an unreasonably high amount of monsters (but Hyper Princess Pitch made it work!).
And finally... don't be too sad if it doesn't get published! This is a great framework for what could happen with some collaboration. What ends up being published doesn't need to be 101% perfect, it just needs some cleaning up. :]
I'm not sad now! Watch me die is Ultra-Violence. 6th deneration console Dooms hadn't Nightmare difficulty from the start (Saturn and PSX got it back after 1st release, sth like that). id knew that Nightmare would be hard for consol ports, but SNES and 32x had it anyway and no-one will play on it! Fast monsters can be maken by typing a command in the line Object, in the label on desktop on PrBoom port on which all guys make TAS on PC Doom.
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
I'd like gruefood submissions to be a little more visible, and more submissions go to it... but I've been a fan for 10+ years, not really an issue for me if a run I like isn't published, I'll keep it somehow, heh.
There is something of a solution to this problem: a collection of interesting rejected/cancelled submissions called Gruefood Delight. If this submission isn't published, it will be put on there for people to enjoy.
I almost always agree that a TAS should be the hardest difficulty possible, but in the case of Doom, the games often have an exceedingly unfair highest difficulty.
This is TASing. It doesn't matter how "unfair" the difficulty level is. That's the point. The "perfect" player doesn't care how difficult it is.
Playing on the easiest setting makes little sense.
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1977
Location: Making an escape
Warp wrote:
AzumaK wrote:
I almost always agree that a TAS should be the hardest difficulty possible, but in the case of Doom, the games often have an exceedingly unfair highest difficulty.
This is TASing. It doesn't matter how "unfair" the difficulty level is. That's the point. The "perfect" player doesn't care how difficult it is.
Playing on the easiest setting makes little sense.
Damage range manipulation
The nature of weapons in this game is such that damage is dealt on a range from a minimum to a maximum value every shot. This means that enemies that usually take three rockets can take two rockets if you are lucky, or 4 rockets if you are unlucky. This applies to a majority of the enemies in the game, and the TAS fails to manipulate the randomness to ensure enemies are always killed with the least amount of ammo (and in turn shortest amount of time) whenever possible.
I read this before from you, but it only can be done by the method of trial and mistakes, because there is no RAM Watch in Mupen64.
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Damage range manipulation
The nature of weapons in this game is such that damage is dealt on a range from a minimum to a maximum value every shot. This means that enemies that usually take three rockets can take two rockets if you are lucky, or 4 rockets if you are unlucky. This applies to a majority of the enemies in the game, and the TAS fails to manipulate the randomness to ensure enemies are always killed with the least amount of ammo (and in turn shortest amount of time) whenever possible.
I read this before from you, but it only can be done by the method of trial and mistakes, because there is no RAM Watch in Mupen64.
Why not use BizHawk second time around? It has RAM watch
Why not use BizHawk second time around? It has RAM watch
Could he use MHS to monitor the values? I have seen that program work well with mupen before. But yeah, I agree that Bizhawk would be the easier solution.
Damage range manipulation
The nature of weapons in this game is such that damage is dealt on a range from a minimum to a maximum value every shot. This means that enemies that usually take three rockets can take two rockets if you are lucky, or 4 rockets if you are unlucky. This applies to a majority of the enemies in the game, and the TAS fails to manipulate the randomness to ensure enemies are always killed with the least amount of ammo (and in turn shortest amount of time) whenever possible.
I read this before from you, but it only can be done by the method of trial and mistakes, because there is no RAM Watch in Mupen64.
Why not use BizHawk second time around? It has RAM watch
I tried BizHawk, but TASing this game is so confusing: the sounds are smashed and repeats for 4 seconds (on 12% as I need)! When I run in slow mothion, I always think I make sth wrong! Mupen64 is IDEAL for TASing games! Are there any Mupen64 emulators with RAW Watch (link, please!)??? Everything I need is Monsters HP: how to find it? How many bytes is it and what's it's display (maybe unsighed?) Cyberdemon's health is 4000 HP, for example, so I need to find adresses with Value 4000 (or 00004000?), right?
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Neutral reset/Speed multipliers
Resetting the control stick neutral to "down" means that when the stick is at rest, the game thinks you are holding up. When you then hold up on the stick, the game reads this as "even more up" and you move significantly faster. Also, the use of toggle strafe in conjunction with running at an angle (strafe-running) to increase speed is lacking in this TAS. I would estimate that upwards of five minutes, if not more, are lost by not using both of these tricks to their fullest extent.
This trick would have no impact on a TAS as we already have full access to all possible control stick positions without having to reset neutral position.
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1977
Location: Making an escape
Dimon12321 wrote:
I tried BizHawk, but TASing this game is so confusing: the sounds are smashed and repeats for 4 seconds (on 12% as I need)!
Well, there's another problem. In order to get the best results from a TAS, the use of frame advance is an absolute must. Not even 12% speed will cut it, unfortunately.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Are there any Mupen64 emulators with RAW Watch (link, please!)??? Everything I need is Monsters HP: how to find it? How many bytes is it and what's it's display (maybe unsighed?) Cyberdemon's health is 4000 HP, for example, so I need to find adresses with Value 4000 (or 00004000?), right?
You should use Memory Hacking Software if you aren't already. It's a generic RAM Watch/Search that's really useful for emulators that don't have it built in.
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player
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Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1007
Dimon12321 wrote:
I tried BizHawk, but TASing this game is so confusing: the sounds are smashed and repeats for 4 seconds (on 12% as I need)!
As much as it will feel like you will never, ever be done with the TAS when frame-advancing, this is the only way to ensure that the input is optimal. It can take a while to get used to it (I know it took me a long time), but it will have a significant impact.
I also recommend going with BizHawk. While the N64 support does have some challenges the framework around it is worth it. If you have any specific bugs definitely post about it in the BizHawk thread.
Lastly, chin up - TASVideos has extremely high standards. I've submitted a run and had it rejected for not being as optimal as it needed to be and it wasn't fun but it goaded me on to do better the next time. Thanks for your work on this and best of luck!
A.C.
******
I tried BizHawk, but TASing this game is so confusing: the sounds are smashed and repeats for 4 seconds (on 12% as I need)!
As much as it will feel like you will never, ever be done with the TAS when frame-advancing, this is the only way to ensure that the input is optimal. It can take a while to get used to it (I know it took me a long time), but it will have a significant impact.
I also recommend going with BizHawk. While the N64 support does have some challenges the framework around it is worth it. If you have any specific bugs definitely post about it in the BizHawk thread.
Lastly, chin up - TASVideos has extremely high standards. I've submitted a run and had it rejected for not being as optimal as it needed to be and it wasn't fun but it goaded me on to do better the next time. Thanks for your work on this and best of luck!
A.C.
******
No, I use frame-advance! I just checked the speed of my running: on Mupen64's 10% speed I run faster than on Bizhawk's 12% speed, but on normal speed I run the same speed on both emulators! I just need to get accustomed!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Are there any Mupen64 emulators with RAW Watch (link, please!)??? Everything I need is Monsters HP: how to find it? How many bytes is it and what's it's display (maybe unsighed?) Cyberdemon's health is 4000 HP, for example, so I need to find adresses with Value 4000 (or 00004000?), right?
You should use Memory Hacking Software if you aren't already. It's a generic RAM Watch/Search that's really useful for emulators that don't have it built in.
I use RAM Search for the 1st time, because other games I TASed (for fun) just doesn't need RAM Search
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
No, I use frame-advance! I just checked the speed of my running: on Mupen64's 10% speed I run faster than on Bizhawk's 12% speed, but on normal speed I run the same speed on both emulators! I just need to get accustomed!
If you're using frame advance, why would play back speed even matter? >.>
No, I use frame-advance! I just checked the speed of my running: on Mupen64's 10% speed I run faster than on Bizhawk's 12% speed, but on normal speed I run the same speed on both emulators! I just need to get accustomed!
If you're using frame advance, why would play back speed even matter? >.>
I know it does matter in at least bizhawk. I found when I was doing my Mega Man run that having the emulator set to a lower speed would cause a delay between frames when frame advance was used.
My user name is rather long, feel free to call me by htwt or tape.
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heldtogetherwithtape wrote:
jlun2 wrote:
Dimon12321 wrote:
No, I use frame-advance! I just checked the speed of my running: on Mupen64's 10% speed I run faster than on Bizhawk's 12% speed, but on normal speed I run the same speed on both emulators! I just need to get accustomed!
If you're using frame advance, why would play back speed even matter? >.>
I know it does matter in at least bizhawk. I found when I was doing my Mega Man run that having the emulator set to a lower speed would cause a delay between frames when frame advance was used.
That's interesting. Question, though - why would you use slowdown? I do admit that there are some cases where frame advance is too slow and holding down the frame advance and going 100% speed is too fast but that seems like an atypical situation, not an all the time thing. This is probably the wrong place to be discussing emulator behavior, though. :)
A.C.
******
