Could chus be used for a faster collapse skip?
Sorry if this is a dumb question, I don't know enough about this stuff ^^
They could, it'd probably be like only a few frames faster since you have a falling boulder about a second after the cutscene, but that should be used for another bigger time save than that. So no
Nice, this should save another few seconds. I did a test TAS of getting chus using Blank A. Sadly it takes even longer than I thought. It takes almost exactly one minute (the video doesn't contain leaving the well). If you add in the time we need to get the nuts from the shop, we have to save something like 1:10 using the chus. Skipping the Deku Tree CS saves around 30 seconds, so we'd have to save another 40 somewhere. Pretty unlikely if you ask me :/
Link to video
The wall clip with bombs gradually made me want to come see what I can do with testing, so I should be able to help out tomorrow. I think when using bombchus you'd want to send a twisted bombchu to one of the stumps so that it'd move back to the wall, sort of like how it was done here:
http://www.youtube.com/v/tjpGcBfrJqw
So that includes Swordless? What are the two routes that you're comparing?
You have to be swordless to do Blank A.
So the routes are:
Sword, no bombchus (henceforth any% with sword)
Swordless, no bombchus (henceforth any% swordless)
Swordless, bombchus (henceforth any% bombchus)
any% swordless is predicted to be a bit faster than any% with sword.
any% bombchus is predicted to be a bit slower than both.
Grunz, you kinda used a stick you wouldn't have at that point... unless you want to collect 35r in Kokiri somehow.
If you vine clip in the chu room, voiding out shouldn't be a problem. That water you clip into is completely oob.
MTA, I experimented with the clip you found. Even if I get a JS by using cheats, I can't even get close to the loading zone. So that probably won't work.
So in general things that need testing:
- Vineclip into B1. Looks very possible looking at UoT, but nobody has pulled it off yet.
- 231 skip with chus from inside the pillar next to the slope (major problem at the moment is that we have no way to get ISG when the room around isn't loaded)
- Getting through the slab in ghomas room, with chus and with the warp already active.
Btw. could you ride the warp up like it's done with the Fire Temple Ganondoor? I mean let yourself get carried up and JS through the slab?
Also unrelated, but could there be some possibility to get a trade timer as child without going adault first?
Edit:
What we could also do is, clip into B1 and then climb back up far enough so B1 gets loaded. Should be faster than going all the way up in the deku tree, but ofcourse it makes chus seem far less worth it.
If B1 is loaded we could also crawl through the crawlspace, superslide teleport and then megaflip into the boss loading zone. Problem with this is that the crawlspace is slow.
Edit2: What I forgot to emntion is that the wall the boss door is on and the floor don't fit together perfectly. There is a pixel wide gap. In UoT it looks like the one that makes the blank A forest escape possible. But neither MTA nor I could clip there. So it might be that the gap in Kokiri is actually a pixel wider. Still, would be nice if somebody else could look into this as well. *nudges Grunz*
Edit3: Ofcourse the dream scenario would be this: https://i.imgur.com/KvKxNVv.png
Vine clip at green, fall into open pillar red and then make your way to loading zone blue with a few hovers and a megaflip. Probably won't happen since it's too far...
Btw. could you ride the warp up like it's done with the Fire Temple Ganondoor? I mean let yourself get carried up and JS through the slab?
Also unrelated, but could there be some possibility to get a trade timer as child without going adault first?
The Deku Tree Blue Warp has a timer set to pick Link off of the Ground when the fade into the cutscene is set. so even if it could be used there's not enough time to go through the door.
As with the timers, I don't think you can get them with the trade items. The eyedrops can be obtained as child but you can't get the eyeball frog from King Zora.
The Deku Tree Blue Warp has a timer set to pick Link off of the Ground when the fade into the cutscene is set. so even if it could be used there's not enough time to go through the door.
Ah yes, child warps lift you up later than adault warps. Forgot about that...
As with the timers, I don't think you can get them with the trade items. The eyedrops can be obtained as child but you can't get the eyeball frog from King Zora.
How can you get the eyedrops?
Anywho, that's sad. Getting the timer and duping over the trade item are the only things that keep us from ganonless as child. That would be fun, even though probably slower than current Ganondoor. (although the current TAS takes 12 minutes after getting the bottle to get to last input. That is quite some time. You could conceivably get chus, ZL, magic, FW, trade timer and beat DC in that time.)
So does this means that we get to see this freaking awesome trick in a RTA runs maybe?
Also (this is for MrGrunz) how do you change your side hop angles so fast man?
Please help me out Grunz. (Not gonna use your name for the sake of privateness)
(Also we can talk on bookface instead if you want)
If anyone else can explain please do so d:D (that's my grunz smilie)
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
Is the Blank A trick even possible without the stick? I always thought link had to have an item in his hands, that he tries to put away before entering the crawl space. As the bottle is filled with bugs, only item we can use is the stick, so you need 2 sticks before leaving Kokiri anyway. This is no problem at all. We have to go to the stone circle to get rupees anyway and throwing 3 more rocks barely costs any time. I can even imagine this to be faster, because we don't want to enter the water in the beginning of the river like the console runners do, because that is pretty slow. Getting the extra rupees from the stones instead of the top part of the river should be faster anyway. We don't lose the extra Stick we buy in the beginning in case anyone forgot ;)
I'm not 100% sure about this, but I'll throw it out anyway. Getting those 60 rupees after leaving the forest requires (like I said above) entering the water in the top part of the river. Entering the water to get the rupees could cost so much time that going to the stone circle either before or after leaving the forest (after leaving the forest = right before buying the Shield) could be faster. So collecting those 15 extra rupees for the nuts and some slight exra travel time to the stone circle would be the only extra time lose compared to the normal swordless route. Make this a cost of around 6 seconds.
Alltogether we'd have to save around 66-67 seconds using the chus to make this faster. The Deku Tree CS Skip should be a time save of 30 seconds, so we need 36 more. I guess with the current trick set, the new route is probably still 6-7 seconds slower. All we need is like one more new trick, that saves like 10 seconds and we sre good to go with getting the chus. The place to find that trick can only be Deku Tree, all the other places don't allow for any real time saving tricks using chus. Good luck to anybody who tries to break the tree further ;)
TAG wrote:
So does this means that we get to see this freaking awesome trick in a
RTA runs maybe?
Also (this is for MrGrunz) how do you change your side hop angles so fast man?
Please help me out Grunz. (Not gonna use your name for the sake of privateness)
(Also we can talk on bookface instead if you want)
If anyone else can explain please do so d:D (that's my grunz smilie)
If you want to change your angle after a sidehop, you have to let go of Z the same frame you press A to do the last sidehop before changing your angle. This allows you to turn 3 frames faster after landing and thus saves 3 frames for each angle change ;)
Is the Blank A trick even possible without the stick? I always thought link had to have an item in his hands, that he tries to put away before entering the crawl space. As the bottle is filled with bugs, only item we can use is the stick, so you need 2 sticks before leaving Kokiri anyway.
Release bugs, recatch bugs, Link has bottle in his hands. ;)
This is no problem at all. We have to go to the stone circle to get rupees anyway and throwing 3 more rocks barely costs any time.
For 35r you have to throw quite a few more rocks than 3. They only drop 3r max (2 green ones)
Only benefit would be that you could get the shield from botw and never visit the shop again. In case you haven't seen that yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDowoIkXRQU
We don't lose the extra Stick we buy in the beginning in case anyone forgot ;)
How would you not lose it? You still have to slide past the owl. Did I miss something? Or do you mean you wouldn't lose a 2nd stick if you bought it? Because that I never even questioned.
Btw. Grunz, is there a way, after a vine clip, to fall along the wall you just cliped through instead of flying away from it? Falling to the left alongside the wall would be fine, too. Just not straight ahead. Would be nice if you could answer this, since it's really important.
You can fall like 45 degrees to the left or right from the vines after clipping.
I edited my post, you should read it. What I'm talking about in my post above is that you have to be careful what really costs time. To me it seems like only getting the 15 rupees by throwing 5 extra stones should cost extra time.
You can fall like 45 degrees to the left or right from the vines after clipping.
Does that mean paralel to the wall or in a 45 degree angle from the wall? I fear it means the latter, which means my idea won't work...
Only other idea to make this work I have: can you boost yourself up after the vine clip. For example by clipping with a chu that came at you from below?
Edit: Okay read your post. Still don't get where you want to get those 35r in Kokiri from. If we assume that you get 10r the normal way, that's still 25r left, which is 9 rocks to throw. That's a bunch.
If you find some time at some point you should really come by the IRC channel at some point, btw.
Why does grunz get to watch the video and i can't? Every time i try and watch it, it says "an error has occurred" it might be my internet. I apologise if i was off topic there.
Also please may i post my future TASes in the forum?
Also to MrGrunz. Change your profile pic man. I prefer the OG Grunz dp better (can i make you a dp?)
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
I did some rough timing and I'm pretty sure, that for the non-bombchu route it is quicker to replace 9 rupees from the river with rupees from the stone circle. We are very close to it while going to Lost Woods anyway and some rupees in the river cost quite a few times to get.
Now let's get a real comparison between the 2 routes done (most of those could actually be 1-2 seconds off) in detail. This should be all time losses, if I'm not totally mistaken.
- Getting 24 rupees (the missing 11 will be collected on the way and inside of the shop) from stones: +16 seconds
- Slower Nut Tex while buying it: +3 seconds
- Getting bombchus: +60 seconds
Time Gains:
- Not going to the Stone circle after Shop Trip 1: -6 seconds
- Deku Tree CS Skip: -30 seconds
- Not killing Deku Baba for Nuts in the tree: -3 seconds
- Not Killing Deku Baba for Stick in the tree: -3 seconds
- 2-3-1 Skip: -2 seconds
- Not luring Gohma around: -11 seconds
- No Re-entering of Gohma Room: -9 seconds
- No Walk to the Blue Warp from the door: -3 seconds
Alltogether this makes an approximated time loss of 79 seconds compared to a gain of 67 seconds. Add in another 2-3 seconds of saved time thanks to playing around with chus and we are at those 10 extra seconds we have to save somewhere. Of course only Deku Tree leaves space for such an improvement, liked I said earlier already. The list probably looks quite confusing, maybe it only makes sense in my head. Feel free to ask question or point out mistakes you realized ;)
MTA wrote:
MrGrunz wrote:
What exactly did you do in this Video?
I was in the room where all those baby gohma's were, then i done Blank A, then clip through the wall that's on the left of the crawlspace.
Hmm, sounds like even if it worked, it wouldn't save any time sadly :/
Slowking wrote:
Only benefit would be that you could get the shield from botw and never visit the shop again. In case you haven't seen that yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDowoIkXRQU
This actually looks like it could save 2-3 seconds. I have to TAS this to see how quick it really is.
Add in another 2-3 seconds of saved time thanks to playing around with chus and we are at those 10 extra seconds we have to save somewhere. Of course only Deku Tree leaves space for such an improvement, liked I said earlier already. The list probably looks quite confusing, maybe it only makes sense in my head. Feel free to ask question or point out mistakes you realized ;)
Well really the only thing we need to save those 10 seconds is to clip into B1 from the first vines. Still 99% sure that's possible with one of those 45° vine clips. Have you ever tried it?
MrGrunz wrote:
This actually looks like it could save 2-3 seconds. I have to TAS this to see how quick it really is.
Should save quite a bit.
You never have to visit the Kokiri shop again, if you get the shield from there, which is nice, since the shop is really out of the way if you want to skip the Deku Tree CS. Plus the shield text is quite a bit faster when you don't buy it from a shop, plus no gathering extra rupees in the river.
MrGrunz wrote:
Hmm, sounds like even if it worked, it wouldn't save any time sadly :/
If it worked it would save quite a bit. B1 doesn't need to be loaded for this. But I doubt it will work, even if it's close.
Only way I see this maybe working is right after clipping sidehop to the left then JS the wall. That might give you the distance you need.
Holy crap, I think we need another TAS comp d:D
Bottom of the well to chus and shield as fast as you possibly can. (If someone could maybe be kind enough to give me an st file I will be forever grateful) mods delete this if it violates the rules of tasvideos.
I’m sorry. Really I am... I am so sorry for what I did. Forgive me.
