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Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4042
So here's an idea no one has brought up yet. What about SMW again, but instead of ACE, just doing a regular glitchfest playaround? There's an endless stream of bizarre glitches to show off in this game, so it could be made arbitrarily long and yet remain entertaining. You would need to have someone qualified in the area volunteer, of course, but all you have to do is ask.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Post subject: A playaround TAS of SMW would be great! Any volunteers?
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player (906)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
Patashu wrote:
So here's an idea no one has brought up yet. What about SMW again, but instead of ACE, just doing a regular glitchfest playaround? There's an endless stream of bizarre glitches to show off in this game, so it could be made arbitrarily long and yet remain entertaining. You would need to have someone qualified in the area volunteer, of course, but all you have to do is ask.
This really would make my day, but someone like Masterjun or Bahamete would need to volunteer (and I'm hoping that Masterjun can help write the SNES payload once we prove the SGB ideas work out, which is something I'm horribly behind on researching and testing, but I digress). If someone wants to make a playaround TAS in SMW using lsnes please let me know. Thanks!
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Masterjun
He/Him
Site Developer, Skilled player (1986)
Joined: 10/12/2010
Posts: 1185
Location: Germany
Yeah, we will try finishing the SMW glitchfest for AGDQ 2016.
Warning: Might glitch to credits I will finish this ACE soon as possible (or will I?)
Emulator Coder, Player (69)
Joined: 10/4/2005
Posts: 197
Update on MK64: I took Weatherton's 4 player demo movie from Bizhawk and was able to sync it on the console using my bot! I'll get my updated code online later this week as well as a video. Now that we know it'll sync the next step is to create the actual movie we'll use at AGDQ.
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4042
Masterjun wrote:
Yeah, we will try finishing the SMW glitchfest for AGDQ 2016.
Sounds about right, haha :D
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Post subject: I guess Masterjun wants to do total control! :)
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player (906)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
Patashu wrote:
Masterjun wrote:
Yeah, we will try finishing the SMW glitchfest for AGDQ 2016.
Sounds about right, haha :D
Seriously 2016? :) So Masterjun, better question - what excites you more, working on the SMW glitchfest or the SGB total control SNES payload? You can of course choose to decline to work on either of them but I figured I'd ask to see what you were more interested in helping out with if you had the time. Edit: Well, that was quick: 13:41 Masterjun [~Masterjun@p4FE2AB76.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #tasvideos 13:42 Masterju| dwangoAC: total control > glitchfest 13:42 Masterjun [~Masterjun@p4FE2AB76.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit from #tasvideos [Client Quit] On that front, I've continued to research SGB documentation on how to break out but due to travel this weekend I do not anticipate making a lot of progress on that front until next week. I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks for the support, everyone!
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11473
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
It'd be a good idea to find the author of the first (ever) total control run (luckily it was for GB too) and pull into the project.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Post subject: Good news - we made it past 2nd round cuts!
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player (906)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
I have good news - all three of our accepted runs made it past second-round cuts. As a quick update, I'm confident that micro500 and Weatherton have the MK64 runs handled so I'll leave them to it. Family Feud work had a flurry of activity but is a bit quiet at the moment; I'm assuming this is because actual work on the runs has started. I am still extremely behind on making useful progress on the SGB front in the face of many other distractions but I am hopeful that I'll get somewhere by next week. Feel free to ping me if you have questions. Thanks!
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Editor, Skilled player (1535)
Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319
I'm actually currently working on the family feud tas. Problem is I need to do all answers of a question, not just one (I almost did a complete one). And I would also luck manipulate a question, where funny answers would fit in. You can expect this run to be finished next month.
Favorite animal: STOCK Gt(ROSA)26Sortm1.1(rtTA,EGFP)Nagy Grm7Tg(SMN2)89Ahmb Smn1tm1Msd Tg(SMN2*delta7)4299Ahmb Tg(tetO-SMN2,-luc)#aAhmb/J YouTube Twitch
Post subject: Volunteers, claim a gifted game!
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player (906)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
I greatly appreciate the work that volunteers who are filling roles are doing so if you volunteered already or if you're willing to fill a role in the first post I'll be more than happy to gift you a game from this list as a token of my appreciation. It's not much, but it's at least something I can do to say thanks.
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Post subject: Role description: Raffle prize manager
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player (906)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
This role is needed because as we get closer to AGDQ 2015 I'd like someone to initiate soliciting the TASVideos community to create raffle prizes that can be given away to donors during our runs. Last year I took this on myself but I'm sure there are plenty of other administrative types who would do a better job of rallying the creative builders on the site. If you take this role and can create a thread to encourage TASVideos members to contribute anything from pearlers to hardware prizes I'd greatly appreciate it!
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Post subject: Role description: Donation incentives creative genious
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player (906)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
This doesn't have to be just one person but in effect I'm looking for someone to take some time to think through what we might be able to do as donation incentives. For the last marathon we did a bid war between running two different games but I don't know if that's a good idea for this year's lineup. If anyone is willing to put some thought into this I'd appreciate it.
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Post subject: Role description: SNES reset switch solenoid development
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player (906)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
For the total control run it would be helpful if we could create a mechanism to trigger the reset button on an SNES. I have a large number of solenoids (coils) for my pinball machines but most of them are.. well, let's just say that if I used what I have I'd be more likely to shoot the reset button across the room than successfully reset the console. This will require listening for a signal on a wire (simple voltage change) and reacting within 1 NTSC frame (1/60th of a second), or alternately having a known delay time so the reset command can be offset. If there's a hardware tinkerer out there that would like to take this on please contact me.
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Post subject: Does anyone want to hack R.O.B.?
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player (906)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
OK, this is a longshot, but if we're able to do our own payload that can take full control of the screen it would be really, really awesome if we can control R.O.B. (i.e. TASBot). There's someone who has written a test program with the correct screen flash values but they didn't release the program they wrote (and it appeared to be homebrew for the NES). We know we'll have a CRT screen to work with so that part should be OK, so all that's left is figuring out how to write that into the payload and test it. I envision it as something someone can write independently which can then be incorporated into the final payload. Any takers? In the meantime, I'm continuing to research how to chain everything together. If anyone wants to help out with that part please let me know - helping out can range from encouraging me to keep moving forward by pestering me on #tasvideos to writing a lua dump script to convert the existing Pokemon Yellow button presses to play back in lsnes SGB. I'll continue to move forward on my own, of course.
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player (906)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
I spent most of today finally making some meaningful progress on SGB emulator accuracy testing and console verification sync testing. Today I set up lsnes in Linux by compiling from source (with some direct help from Ilari in IRC) to allow for the most flexibility in testing. I determined very quickly that there was no point in attempting to do a lua script conversion from VBM format to lsnes format as timing is drastically different. In particular, the SGB runs at about 1.024 the speed of a GBC and on top of that the SGB is not well emulated so I realized that a better course of action was to try a test segment and re-implement the inputs, adjusting as needed. I used Pokemon Yellow and recreated the initial input up to saving the game from FractalFusion's Total Control run. This took an oddly long amount of time, possibly because my kids took great delight in throwing themselves across my lap or generally being kids that wanted to spend time with their dad, which I was obliged to reciprocate, but I digress. I eventually created this Pokemon Yellow lsnes SGB test movie file which *should* sync on a standard release of lsnes. My initial console verification tests did not go well; it seemed like the console was far slower than the emulator, especially when doing the color fadeout transitions. I ended up using a hex editor (okteta) to add a substantial number of lag frames prior to these transitions, and after a fair bit of twiddling I was able to get the movie file to console verify. This series of statements should be considered carefully - first, we already knew that SGB emulation wasn't fantastic, and now we know that it's off by several frames in groups. This means that any run must be tediously verified and checked against the console while it's being developed to ensure it will sync. It also means that some mechanism for adding lag frames and keeping track of them needs to be implemented as what I'm doing now is editing the .frame.r16m console verification file (seeing as it probably wouldn't sync if we added the lag frames to the lsnes movie file). I'm not yet sure how to handle this, although my preference would be to doge the problem altogether by improving SGB support to properly include lag frames where they are needed. I'm not optimistic that this can happen in the next 7 weeks, however, so I'll proceed under the assumption that we'll need to make do with the emulation abilities available today. I do not yet know what limits this will put on the SGB portion of the run but to me it seems like the hardest segment will be reaching total control of Pokemon (regardless of which variant). I will continue to plow forward on my own but if anyone has any suggestions or thoughts on how to proceed please feel free to speak up. Thanks!
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
creaothceann
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 4/7/2005
Posts: 1874
Location: Germany
Maybe you could tell byuu/ilari/etc. about the lag frames, maybe they'll have an idea when to insert them. I'm also not sure if byuu has made accuracy improvements since ilari forked the code.
Post subject: Re: Actual, meaningful progress!
Site Admin, Skilled player (1250)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11473
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
dwangoAC wrote:
after a fair bit of twiddling I was able to get the movie file to console verify.
Oh god can you make a video?! Otherwise, is there a possibility to strip lag frames out of the verification movie and make it feed input only when there's a poll?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Post subject: Re: Actual, meaningful progress!
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player (906)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
feos wrote:
dwangoAC wrote:
after a fair bit of twiddling I was able to get the movie file to console verify.
Oh god can you make a video?! Otherwise, is there a possibility to strip lag frames out of the verification movie and make it feed input only when there's a poll?
I'll edit my post to clarify that I only got up to the point where FractalFusion tries to save the game, as any further would require an extremely accurate reset solenoid. I'm still in a position where the only solenoids I have on hand are from pinball machines and are strong enough to launch the reset button across the room (and, um, possibly embed it into a wall). So, I stopped right before saving, which has been good enough to prove what I feared - that SGB emulation accuracy inside of lsnes isn't accurate enough. Some clarifying points - I am not using the VBA movie at all, I've only watched it and re-implemented the same button presses using lsnes's multirom loading feature to load world SGB ROM and Pokemon Yellow ROM. One interesting experiment would be to have someone do the exact same thing with Gambatte (or the BizHawk core) so we can count frames during the transitions and see how far off SGB emulation in lsnes is. It might not help in the long run unless we can fix SGB emulation accuracy but it'd give a good indication of the extent of the problem. I can work around the minor issue of the SGB running at 1.024x speed by manually inserting a lag frame here or there and it's possible I could even work around *all* of the problems by making heavy modifications to the .r16m console verification file but I'm convinced I need a better method to do that than just relying on a hex editor. I'll ponder this. Any other ideas?
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Post subject: Re: Actual, meaningful progress!
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 1/18/2008
Posts: 663
feos wrote:
dwangoAC wrote:
after a fair bit of twiddling I was able to get the movie file to console verify.
Oh god can you make a video?! Otherwise, is there a possibility to strip lag frames out of the verification movie and make it feed input only when there's a poll?
AFAIK SGB uses AutoPoll and thus it doesn't matter if it is frame-based or latch-based input, the input will be the same. This also means SGB can have input skew from console input. Basically, GBx runs in SGB mode need to be done more accurately for verification to happen.
dwangoAC wrote:
I'll edit my post to clarify that I only got up to the point where FractalFusion tries to save the game, as any further would require an extremely accurate reset solenoid.
A reset save run will not happen with a solenoid. As in, yes, it may happen eventually, but it won't work for marathon presentation. Guaranteed. It's too slow and timing is not exact (it's a physical device moving through air to press a lever to press a switch...)
dwangoAC wrote:
So, I stopped right before saving, which has been good enough to prove what I feared - that SGB emulation accuracy inside of lsnes isn't accurate enough.
Yes, this was known...just have hard proof now I guess?
dwangoAC wrote:
One interesting experiment would be to have someone do the exact same thing with Gambatte (or the BizHawk core) so we can count frames during the transitions and see how far off SGB emulation in lsnes is.
As well, I have a shitty cheap capture card coming in (slowly from China), and when I get that I can cap the composite input so frames can be compared - this is the hope anyway.
true on twitch - lsnes windows builds 20230425 - the date this site is buried
Post subject: Re: Actual, meaningful progress!
Skilled player (1737)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4979
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
I'm not sure if this would hinder progress, but I recall this conversation regarding the pi playaround. So that can be a problem for verifying it.
Post subject: FIrst day prime-time at AGDQ 2015!
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player (906)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
I interrupt this preparation thread with important news - we have been granted a 40 minute consolidated TAS block on the first day of the marathon during primetime (2015-01-04 20:15 EST). We're scheduled immediately after Mario Kart 8 and Mario Kart Wii, so I intend to have micro500 and Weatherton do the Mario Kart 64 race first, followed by the playaround TAS and finishing with the arbitrary code TAS. As a brain dump of what I'm thinking through right now, I think I need to TAS those 40 minutes until they are perfect, i.e. I need to practice the actual presentation a whole lot more and not be as worried about last-minute payload testing and hardware hacking this year. I'll be requesting a rolling cart to make setup easier and improve reproducibility / reliability; this will be especially needed to accommodate everything we'll need for the different consoles. I've updated the TASBot twitter feed with a link (I'm still somewhat new to Twitter and I think I committed a no-no by pasting the raw link; perhaps someone here with more experience can enlighten me.) It remains my goal to raise $25k during this 40 minute block, and if anything having it all consolidated into one block actually makes that goal a bit easier. So, here's where I need to start pestering people to think about donation incentives, raffle prizes, etc. - as noted, I need volunteers for those positions and I haven't had a lot of response to that just yet so I figured I'd bring them up again. If you can help, please let me know. Thanks!
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Post subject: Status update as of 2014-11-10
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player (906)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
7It's been an eventful past couple of weeks. I need to again thank Ilari for his tireless efforts to port the Gambatte core into lsnes which has allowed for much better accuracy. There was a brief period of despair when we discovered that Pokemon Yellow is very hard to emulate accurately and we also determined that a reset probably would not synchronize. There was a period where we hoped to find an exploit in SML2:6GC but because the game is not SGB enabled all SGB functionality is disabled and it would be impractical to pursue. We've moved on to Pokemon Red and I was able to purchase a local copy with Bitcoin for the equivalent of $15 USD. I've done some initial tests using the older replay board and I can now get a movie to sync in the sense that all the button presses happen when they should but the trainer ID's do not match. Right now I need to create a new movie file that presses Start to start the game as early as possible (something my sloppy test movie did not do) and determine if the pre-input phase lines up on the same frame, i.e. to ensure that the emulation accuracy of the SGB startup section is accurate. Past that, we need to deconstruct how the trainer ID is generated and work out how to get the trainer ID to line up with what it is on lsnes + Gambatte core. If anyone would like to help with this, please let me know. Lastly, there are a number of positions still unfilled, including someone to think up donation incentives, someone to handle raffle prizes, and someone to help us work out twitch meme references (that avoid overly foul language or drug references in deference to our primetime spot and the fact that I anticipate that young children will likely be watching that segment of the marathon, including my own two children, but I digress :). Thanks to all who have supported this effort. There's still a lot to get done but there's hope that the crazy arbitrary execution payload is still viable, which is awesome.
I was laid off in May 2023 and became too ill to work this year and could use support via Patreon or onetime donations as work on TASBot Re: and TASBot HD is stalled. I'm dwangoAC, TASVideos Senior Ambassador and BDFL of the TASBot community; when healthy, I post TAS content on YouTube.com/dwangoAC based on livestreams from Twitch.tv/dwangoAC.
Editor, Skilled player (1535)
Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319
Yep, I really need some more cancerous twitch memes and smiliar stuff. I managed to resync the run after I found a better way to manipulate questions (with a shitty bot). And now I'm almost done with the second set. I need specially answers for: VACATION\TRIP\TRAVEL, MOV\HOUSE\HOME. I'll post again whenever I'm lacking creativity.
Favorite animal: STOCK Gt(ROSA)26Sortm1.1(rtTA,EGFP)Nagy Grm7Tg(SMN2)89Ahmb Smn1tm1Msd Tg(SMN2*delta7)4299Ahmb Tg(tetO-SMN2,-luc)#aAhmb/J YouTube Twitch
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2108)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2821
Location: Northern California
Every Twitch meme is cancerous.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Editor, Skilled player (1535)
Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319
I need answers ... I'm stupid and can't come up with anything. It even doesn't need to be twitch related or fit into the question.
Favorite animal: STOCK Gt(ROSA)26Sortm1.1(rtTA,EGFP)Nagy Grm7Tg(SMN2)89Ahmb Smn1tm1Msd Tg(SMN2*delta7)4299Ahmb Tg(tetO-SMN2,-luc)#aAhmb/J YouTube Twitch
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