Post by MUGG

Posted: 7/25/2008 8:43 AM

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Aglar

Expert player (3640)

Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden

I don't know ST2 very well but I'm still sure that game is significantly shorther, with one reason for it being that ST1 has more map terrain to walk through and also has more tasks to do outside the tunnels. Sami TASed both games so he might be able to give a more accurate answer.

feos wrote:

Only Aglar can improve this now.

Posted: 7/28/2008 1:43 PM

Post subject: It depends...

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RyanM561

Joined: 6/28/2007
Posts: 17

By your logic, it should be almost equally as easy (difficult?) to take 30 seconds off the movie that is already shorter. It really depends upon what future glitches and shortcuts are found for each game. Since they've both been optimized by the same person, it's likely that they're both similarly optimized, and there aren't a lot more refinements available to one than the other. You're not likely to gain 30 seconds more on one than you're likely to gain on the other. On a similar note, I'm still waiting to see the revised 2nd quest of Legend of Zelda, and how close it comes to the 24:05(?) set for the first quest.

Posted: 7/29/2008 3:53 AM

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L337

Joined: 12/25/2007
Posts: 86
Location: Muhos, Finland

its shorter because they both have different gameplay, like you can move upleft at st1, but you can do so at 2, and at 2 you'll can jump and move same time.

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Posted: 2/13/2011 12:26 PM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2328)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3929
Location: Germany

I worked on this today. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1136141600/startropics%20tas.fm2 It is 92 frames faster than Aglar's run, because I skipped a dialogue in the first village. I actually saved 101 frames, but I lost frames somewhere. I didn't compare movies at all...

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Posted: 2/13/2011 1:39 PM

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Aglar

Expert player (3640)

Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden

MUGG wrote:

I worked on this today. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1136141600/startropics%20tas.fm2 It is 92 frames faster than Aglar's run, because I skipped a dialogue in the first village. I actually saved 101 frames, but I lost frames somewhere. I didn't compare movies at all...

:) I actually started an improvement of my old run long ago, but lost the interest quite fast. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1184806702/Startropics%20%28U%29WIP.fm2 This game has an 8-frame rule for when the screen goes black, good to know if you can't find where you lose time. I think this game might have some hidden treasures left since I didn't use memory watch at all in the published run. Expect MUCH luck manipulation:)

feos wrote:

Only Aglar can improve this now.

Posted: 2/15/2011 4:41 AM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2328)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3929
Location: Germany

New WIP. Saved 0 frames in chapter 1 over Aglar's WIP. Dungeon 1, room 6: I saved a few pixels, but lost them to the last rat. Dungeon 1, room 9: Saved 1 frame by using yoyo instead of fire on the first rat. Dungeon 1, room 10: The snake's movement was different compared to Aglar's WIP (because I had saved 1 frame). So I needed to take damage to keep the 1 frame save. Dungeon 1, boss: Lost 1 frame because I had to jump on the same frame as in Aglar's WIP. Maybe some kind of frame rule... I tried delaying 1 and 2 frames before the boss, but it didn't save time. I saved 144 frames over the published run, because of the skipped dialogue and because I held A when going through tunnels in chapter 2, saving some frames.

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Posted: 2/15/2011 8:00 AM

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TheAxeMan

Ambassador, Experienced player (708)

Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE

Cool, one of my favorite games. Looks very good, the magic of the southern cross is clearly on your side.

Posted: 4/17/2011 7:43 AM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2328)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3929
Location: Germany

Hey, I haven't made much progress since my last post. I basicly gave up because of the Kraken boss being hard to luck-manipulate. WIP (I hope it is the correct movie, I haven't checked) This should be just 4 frames behind Aglar's run for the first phase of the Kraken boss. At the moment I don't feel like continuing, so if someone is interested, just take my WIP and give it a try. :) It should be possible to improve the Kraken boss further.

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Posted: 9/11/2012 4:27 AM

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scaryice

Joined: 7/24/2007
Posts: 74

Osteroid glitch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5KLakgnqvE

Posted: 5/28/2013 6:16 AM

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scaryice

Joined: 7/24/2007
Posts: 74

In the water, when you move onto a cutscene square, you have one frame where you can hit B (to submerge) or select (to bring up the "this is chapter whatever" message). Haven't found a way to skip anything, but there's still some interesting stuff you can do. If you move onto the whale's square in chapter 4 and submerge, you won't get eaten and you can continue sailing to the right though the water is just endless. In chapter 2, after the dungeon you have to enter the sub and move one square to the right to talk to the boy dolphin. If you hit B or select as you do that, the cutscene won't continue and you're stuck. If you hit select at the beginning of chapter 2 on the square where the mother dolphin appears, you can close the window just as she starts to talk and she'll go underwater immediately, rather than at the end of the conversation (don't remember if that saves any time).

Posted: 11/28/2014 11:10 AM

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Mecha_Richter

He/Him

Joined: 10/11/2011
Posts: 53

I'm not sure if this has been known, but I apparently found a super fast way to kill Osteroid. This was my first playthrough of the game, so I had no idea how I was meant to kill him and wasn't aware of what I did. http://www.twitch.tv/mecharichter/c/5544881 I only knew it was a quick kill because Zodastone and Darkwing Duck were going nuts in my chat. Zodastone tried testing it and only got it to work once, and he says it saves about 3 seconds. I don't know if it would be useful for the TAS because it seems like you need the supergun, but I'm not sure. Like I said, this was the first time I beat the game, so I'm not too familiar with everything.

Posted: 11/29/2014 3:44 PM

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Mecha_Richter

He/Him

Joined: 10/11/2011
Posts: 53

MUGG wrote:

Interesting. Changing weapon caused this?

I wish I could say what caused it, but I honestly have no idea. It could be either that, or I got hit on the same frame I damaged it.

Posted: 11/30/2014 1:27 PM

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scaryice

Joined: 7/24/2007
Posts: 74

Mecha Richter wrote:

I'm not sure if this has been known, but I apparently found a super fast way to kill Osteroid. This was my first playthrough of the game, so I had no idea how I was meant to kill him and wasn't aware of what I did. http://www.twitch.tv/mecharichter/c/5544881 I only knew it was a quick kill because Zodastone and Darkwing Duck were going nuts in my chat. Zodastone tried testing it and only got it to work once, and he says it saves about 3 seconds. I don't know if it would be useful for the TAS because it seems like you need the supergun, but I'm not sure. Like I said, this was the first time I beat the game, so I'm not too familiar with everything.

I'm familiar with it. In fact, I linked to a video of someone doing that several years ago in the SDA thread, but apparently no one reads it... I'm not sure it would be faster since you wouldn't be able to use that gun on the miniboss (or you'd have to pick up another one. It's clear that the boss doesn't take a certain number of shots to kill. It seems to be based on hitting him when he's going left or on certain animation frames. Or maybe, doing a large amount of damage in a short time. It'd be nice if someone could look into the game's code and figure it out.

Posted: 11/9/2017 5:38 PM

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Challenger

He/Him

Skilled player (1686)

Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1061

I found 2 months ago, on youtube, 2 videos that shows 2 different ways to warp to the credits! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqqjtXKCtw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m1Oj4MF2tY Now both Startropics has a possibility at warp to the credits.

My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.

Posted: 11/9/2017 9:39 PM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2328)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3929
Location: Germany

whaaaaaat Well this is interesting. I will play around with this tomorrow. Maybe will run it too, since up until the Kraken was as far as I managed in the past.

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Posted: 11/10/2017 1:42 AM

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Challenger

He/Him

Skilled player (1686)

Joined: 2/23/2016
Posts: 1061

Oh! I haven't checked that channel (Lunadash) before. So, I found more cool stuff: - Chapter 8 skip (woah): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSDZapRlgkI - The long way to do chapter 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UpXJDN8CCs - Chapter 3 town skip (saves about 2 minutes lol): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyVve7QCUuQ Also, I found on Foulc0's channel: - Debug Dungeon Menu Glitch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P--j9Ll6jCc - Chapter 7-2 hot tiles skip (wow): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vMPf-ieoHM - Chapter 3-5 First Bully Room - Good RNG vs 2 Bad RNG Strats vs Damage Boost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrZjx-kUYvc - Chapter 1-1 RTA 7119f [4f faster than Aglar TAS]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ksbq1AXiwo Maybe could be useful.

My homepage --Currently not much motived for TASing as before...-- But I'm still working.

Posted: 11/10/2017 5:44 AM

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Foulco

Joined: 11/10/2017
Posts: 3

Heya people, I have heard Mugg have try recently to do Octo the Huge Warp without much success sadly D: Since I discovered it, I know more about it but I am still no sure how it works exactly. I just know that you can do it this way: 1. Get boss to 1 or 2 hp (Baseball Bat does 2 damages, and it seems to not matter for the warp) at address 0x0330 2. Address 0x0306 must be at 27 (unsigned value) {This value seems to be attack pattern of bosses or something similar, after Octo the Huge reach the bottom, it will be set a 31 if I remember correctly, so Pause Buffer IN GAME (Not Frame Advance)} When at 27, use a snowman (It will freeze this value until snowman ran off) 3. Address 0x002B must reach 233 when on pause state (It is a frames counter that is reduced by 1 each frame and IT IS NOT AFFECTED by the snowman, count down only when NOT PAUSED) 4. Buffer an attack then unpause. 5. Buffer a pause in the middle of the bat attack and wait until the pause work. 6. After that, depending the inputs you are doing, the warp may or may not work, no idea how this part work NOTE: It is also possible that it will just not work at all, but it is very rare. It is a very weird glitch. --------------------------------- Also, as for a TAS, there is a tons of small things that can be optimized, only from power on to the end of chapter 1, it is possible to save over 122 frames. I would TAS this game, but I have no time to do so. I know a lot on how movement lag and movement management work in the game :P

Posted: 11/10/2017 6:50 PM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2328)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3929
Location: Germany

Hello Foulco, I managed to do it :-O http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1970539497/StarTropics.bk2 It would be good to break down and understand the glitch. So if you can record an input file of the credit warp or the debug menu, I would be grateful. I'm sure other users will be happy to investigate, too. Maybe the bug can be done at the Snake boss, too. You can upload your input file here: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php

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Posted: 11/10/2017 10:19 PM

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Foulco

Joined: 11/10/2017
Posts: 3

Good Job on doing it!!! I have not made an input file for now but I have made a zip file that contains some savestate prepared for the bat swing, some for working warps, before the boss room and at the start of the dungeon. It also contains a file that contains 100+ address of the game and which one potentially do what. It may help. Using BizHawk/EmuHawk 1.11.6 There : https://drive.google.com/file/d/174Azbt3eZy-OW2wT1-8l4lEVFw-z0Wdr/view?usp=sharing

Posted: 11/14/2017 4:53 PM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2328)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3929
Location: Germany

I feel like it will require someone more proficient (Masterjun LordTom etc.) to look into the memory and find out where the ACE is hidden in this one. It's basicly going to be a repeat of SMB3 and Zelda 1. Question: How is this done? I would like to try this in other places. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UpXJDN8CCs

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Posted: 11/15/2017 4:54 AM

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scaryice

Joined: 7/24/2007
Posts: 74

Challenger wrote:

- Chapter 3 town skip (saves about 2 minutes lol): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyVve7QCUuQ

I remember testing with the walk through walls code a long time ago, if you don't talk to the villagers there you can go straight to 3-4 and jump on the tile 10 times. It seems like the flag isn't set until you start talking to them. So with this you should be able to skip the entire ghost dungeon and getting the morning star (you'll still have it at the start of the next chapter).

Posted: 11/16/2017 4:43 AM

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Foulco

Joined: 11/10/2017
Posts: 3

Most glitch video from Lunadash have not been solved yet, I also know him but he does not save TAS inputs file or anything, so, well, it is not much help. Also, for the C-Serpent if a warp is possible, in the past I have coded a bot to test all the potential values for the global timer, the play timer and the inputs rng all mix together. The best it was possible to get is an instant crash and also glitched saved file name. (Glitched file name is also not too hard to get against any boss when just holding pause, or even a corrupted file that will just delete your file when soft-reset, you just need to end the dungeon for it to save or a game over) But, since Octo the Huge require also a specific frame on the Boss Action State, this might be why I never was able to get anything good from C-Serpent.

Posted: 2/18/2018 9:43 PM

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MUGG

Editor, Expert player (2328)

Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3929
Location: Germany

So is nobody going to look into this game and the credits warp?

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Posted: 3/17/2019 5:52 PM

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EZGames69

He/They

Publisher, Reviewer, Expert player (4454)

Joined: 5/29/2017
Posts: 2761

How long would a credits warp tas be?

[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing

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