Post by Samsara

Posted: 12/11/2014 1:10 AM

Post subject: TASing tutorial videos

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solarplex

Active player (471)

Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

Would you guys watch introductory tutorials to TASing, video recording, address finding, etc? If so, leave a comment on what you would like to see. See if we can start creating some video tutorials for the newcomers and people who want to learn new methods of finding helpful tools. I know adelikat made some tutorials a while bak which were helpful but he doesnt have a lot of free time to continue.

Posted: 12/11/2014 1:14 AM

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Spikestuff

They/Them

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solarplex wrote:

I know adelikat made some tutorials a while back which were helpful but he doesn't have a lot of free time to continue.

and they can be found here

WebNations/Sabih wrote:

+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.

Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.

Posted: 12/11/2014 6:26 AM

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CoolKirby

Editor, Experienced player (608)

Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4012

I agree with Samsara's suggestion of more advanced techniques. I think it's good to be able to teach how to TAS in more ways than one. We already have text tutorials on how to use advanced tools and such, but some newcomers are more visual learners and might learn better by seeing them demonstrated by a skilled TASer.

Posted: 12/11/2014 6:30 AM

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solarplex

Active player (471)

Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

I had the idea of making these videos after seeing the recent posts in the NES thread from a few users looking into the assembly of games to find out differences (and other things i cant even explain). Learning how assembly works (and benefits TASers) would be something I would love to learn and then in return create a video demonstrating how to interpret my understanding.

Posted: 12/11/2014 6:36 AM

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CoolKirby

Editor, Experienced player (608)

Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4012

Yeah, something like that! That would be pretty interesting and helpful, I'd think.

Posted: 12/11/2014 6:45 AM

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jlun2

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A tutorial on finding RNG's for their values and how it relates to corresponding outcomes would be helpful. :)

LLCoolDave wrote:

This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.

Posted: 12/11/2014 6:47 AM

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solarplex

Active player (471)

Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

jlun2 wrote:

A tutorial on finding RNG's for their values and how it relates to corresponding outcomes would be helpful. :)

That would be interesting, would probably have to demonstrate a few games due to how every game does it differently. I assume that is like all assembly?

Posted: 12/11/2014 3:20 PM

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1236)

Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11269
Location: RU

As I said elsewhere, understanding assembly as whole isn't needed. One just needs RAM Search to find the address that corresponds to his desired outcome and behaves from time to time, then find when it gets written to, and tracelog that frame. Basic ASM mnemonics like LDA (load to accumulator) or STA (store to memory) are ways to find the exact write event, then one needs to learn how the value gets there (to accumulator register, or to memory address). Like, you highlight the accumulator value for the line when it was written to memory, and the text editor also highlights the matching values, you trace them up to how they appear there, and look up the mnemonic that actually puts them there. http://tasvideos.org/ReverseEngineering.html I could stream that, but I don't have a microphone, and I never streamed in my life. But if I would, I'd combine it with putting the reversed info into lua script. Though, the lua video tutorial is what we're really missing. And it can be supplied with RAM Search only. EDIT: Well, I could record a video of me doing reversing, but my spoken English hasn't been used for 10 years.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 12/11/2014 3:25 PM

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solarplex

Active player (471)

Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

feos wrote:

I could stream that, but I don't have a microphone, and I never streamed in my life. But if I would, I'd combine it with putting the reversed info into lua script. Though, the lua video tutorial is what we're really missing. And it can be supplied with RAM Search only. EDIT: Well, I could record a video of me doing reversing, but my spoken English hasn't been used for 10 years.

You can write out a transcript and I can voice over if you wanna do that / do the recording speaking russian and I can do the english voice over (possibly others could do other translations as well).

Posted: 12/11/2014 3:34 PM

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feos

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solarplex wrote:

You can write out a transcript and I can voice over if you wanna do that / do the recording speaking russian and I can do the english voice over (possibly others could do other translations as well).

Too lazy for that. I'd rather talk broken English and then you replace the audio track, explaining the stuff I say in proper English. However I don't feel it's a good way to do the thing. Hmm...

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 12/11/2014 6:06 PM

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TASeditor

Editor, Skilled player (1505)

Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1317

For good TASing tutorials the best way to do them is to seperate theory (stuff about subpixels, optimization, luck-manipulation, etc.) - without using an emulator and just show things with images or simple animations - and actually TASing (apply the knowledge, usage of tools, etc.). Personally I'm really interested in contributing for a tutorial, but I don't know if my spoken English is understandable. Also I lack owning a microphone. I almost did a tutorial on the lsnes movie editor with text on screen, it's really annoying to put all the text together, I don't have a decent video editing program. So I only could help with writing a text without a video.

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Posted: 12/11/2014 6:14 PM

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solarplex

Active player (471)

Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

Both you two PM me and ill buy you shitty mics lol. Theyre like 5$ on amazon prime. It would be great to get feos and taseditor and others who are intelligent in these fields to contribute to this :)

Posted: 12/11/2014 6:20 PM

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1236)

Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11269
Location: RU

Hah, I'd rather buy one myself, or borrow. We'd better talk about how to organize this stuff best. Solar, can you make a lua tutorial video yourself? TASeditor: just make a video and subtitles. Also, I may imagine that broken English isn't as bad, as long as we say sane things with it.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 12/11/2014 6:45 PM

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solarplex

Active player (471)

Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

I can make a basic lua video, using other peoples lua script and TAS just for better reference. If you guys have questions on how to say a sentence properly just ask ill be glad to help

Posted: 12/11/2014 7:08 PM

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feos

Site Admin, Skilled player (1236)

Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11269
Location: RU

Nah, showing scripts won't do it. Well then, I guess I'll have these 2 in my DoSomeday list.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 12/11/2014 7:11 PM

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solarplex

Active player (471)

Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

feos wrote:

Nah, showing scripts won't do it. Well then, I guess I'll have these 2 in my DoSomeday list.

Im gonna break it down and show things in steps. A multiple examples, not just one script. Ill make a basic one myself to show stuff, then go on to examine and explain others scripts. I wont be rushing.

Posted: 12/11/2014 7:23 PM

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Samsara

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TASeditor wrote:

I almost did a tutorial on the lsnes movie editor with text on screen, it's really annoying to put all the text together, I don't have a decent video editing program. So I only could help with writing a text without a video.

If text on-screen is all you want, Aegisub is pretty damn good for that. It's how I've been doing subtitle work on other projects. On that note, I've always personally preferred text/subtitle tutorials. They're easier to follow since you can just pause the video and re-read if you're having trouble figuring something out. The language barrier wouldn't be a problem, either: No one would complain over some odd syntax and if things are just too hard to explain in English then someone else can jump in easily and provide a good explanation.

TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | Cohost

warmCabin wrote:

You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.

Posted: 12/11/2014 8:39 PM

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solarplex

Active player (471)

Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

Samsara wrote:

On that note, I've always personally preferred text/subtitle tutorials. They're easier to follow since you can just pause the video and re-read if you're having trouble figuring something out. The language barrier wouldn't be a problem, either: No one would complain over some odd syntax and if things are just too hard to explain in English then someone else can jump in easily and provide a good explanation.

We can always add in subtitles too, so we get the best of both worlds. Yeah we could rush it and get a tutorial out, but it would be nice to have something solid that 90% of people will understand after watching.

Posted: 12/12/2014 3:20 PM

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

I’ve made a video showing RNG manipulation in Tenchu: Stealth Assassins, I guess it’s relevant to this topic? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qryglFhLTUs I could possibly do tutorials for things but don’t know what, I can’t do disassembly.

Posted: 12/12/2014 3:26 PM

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solarplex

Active player (471)

Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

ALAKTORN wrote:

I’ve made a video showing RNG manipulation in Tenchu: Stealth Assassins, I guess it’s relevant to this topic? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qryglFhLTUs I could possibly do tutorials for things but don’t know what, I can’t do disassembly.

This is a good example of how to use RNG. I was thinking more on the lines of finding RNG (the hardest of the hard stuff). I did enjoy that video though, it was a good representation of how to use RNG

Posted: 12/12/2014 3:34 PM
(Edited: 12/12/2014 3:38 PM)

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

Finding an RNG is not hard. I could make a tutorial on how I do it if it’s needed. You just have to find an action that affects randomness in the game and do a bunch of “(not) the same as before value” until you have maybe a few thousand values, then just mass-freeze a bunch of them with cheats and see if the luck changes or not. If it does, you can delete all the cheated addresses from the search and cheat a new bunch until you find the RNG. This method works with DeSmuME because you can mass-freeze addresses in RAM Search, it doesn’t for PSXjin because you can’t. I don’t know what other emulators can/can’t do it. I had my friend create a bunch of HTML/Lua scripts as a workaround to PSXjin’s failing to find Tenchu’s. Edit: ok after posting all this I realize what you meant by “finding RNG” was actually “reverse-engineering RNG”. I’d advise not to use the word “find” in that context in the future. Finding RNG means locating its address in memory, not reverse-engineering it. Edit2: by the way even though I’ve figured out a bunch of stuff about RNGs I wouldn’t have been able to do anything without my friends so I can’t make any tutorials about it.

Posted: 12/12/2014 3:36 PM

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solarplex

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Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928

ALAKTORN wrote:

Edit: ok after posting all this I realize what you meant by “finding RNG” was actually “reverse-engineering RNG”.

Sorry for my basic english language ^_^ that would be great if you could make a video or help us make a video on reverse-engineering techniques.

Posted: 12/12/2014 3:59 PM

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TASeditor

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RNG is the alghorithm which determines the random values. Finding the address for the random values is easy in most cases. Finding the RNG is not.

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Posted: 12/12/2014 4:06 PM

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ALAKTORN

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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

TASeditor wrote:

Finding the address for the random values is easy in most cases. Finding the RNG is not.

I don’t think you understand English. You can’t say that. Finding the RNG means finding the address in memory, not reverse-engineering its formula.