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This is an any% version of this Game.
It is actually an interesting version of Donkey Kong that I explain better in my 100% run.
It is important to note that the only difference between this game and the "original" NES Donkey kong is the 2nd level was added (making it 4 levels instead of 3). The other 3 levels are identical, and compared to the published movie this TAS is equally fast.
turska: Rejec Judging.
turska: Donkey Kong: Original Edition is official NES software originally released in 2010 included a 25th anniversary Wii bundle. The game is likely an official romhack and not a prototype from the 1980s (details here).
As it is enhanced re-release that adds new content that is emulated accurately, running this ROM in a NES emulator is a valid game choice for submission. Most VC re-releases only contain minor changes (if any) that are inconsequential for a TAS; the vast majority of them would have no notable differences from the original releases. In the case of N64, inaccurate emulation with Mupen is also a concern. Donkey Kong: Original Edition is highly exceptional in this, and accepting TASing the ROM on a NES emulator does not set a precedent for TASing Virtual Console games in general.
Content-wise, Donkey Kong: Original edition adds the second level from the arcade version and an animation of Donkey Kong climbing up the ladder while carrying Pauline - the original NES Donkey Kong lacks these. This TAS represents a superset of NES Donkey Kong's content - levels 1, 3, and 4 are identical and equally fast to their DK NES counterparts.
While we allow different ports of games even in the Vault (such as [2727] SNES Classic Kong Complete by Fortranm in 02:12.76), two ports of the same game on the same system that result in outright identical TASes push this rule, and I don't think having TASes of both NES Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong: Original Edition published makes sense.
As DKOE is a mostly superior port, this TAS could obsolete NES DK; it has the second level, includes the animation of Donkey Kong climbing, and represents a superset of a NES DK TAS.
On the other hand, DKOE is highly obscure and narrowly released compared to NES Donkey Kong, which is the most famous port of the game - DKOE was initially only available in promotional tie-ins for four years since its initial release in 2010 with a Wii bundle, until 2014 when it was released on 3DS Virtual Console in Europe (here). Its status as an official romhack likely made decades after the original NES port decreases its historical value compared to initial speculation of it being a lost prototype.
Considering these factors, I am rejecting this TAS and ruling that for an any% TAS of Donkey Kong, the initial NES Donkey Kong is the preferred game version. For an "all items" TAS, Donkey Kong: Original Edition is preferred and shows off the added second level. Between DK NES any% and DKOE "all items", both any% and "all items" TASes of every stage (except for an any% of DKOE stage 2 which is exclusive to this submission) are represented on the site without any redundant publications.

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Posted: 2/26/2015 12:36 AM
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TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #4592: adelikat's NES Donkey Kong: Original Edition in 01:26.97
Posted: 3/8/2015 1:38 PM
(Edited: 3/9/2015 12:51 PM)
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Spikestuff
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[2015-03-09 00:35:55] <turska> inciting vault/moons wars is apparently my specialty after hydlide, but judging a 6/0/0 run with 0 comments
Yo! People, I know we have a living community. Get your behinds in here and... What am I on about? coughs Can we please get some feedback on this TAS to not make it a living hell for the future judge. Also voting Yes for entertainment but don't you dare obsolete the NES original. Edit: And you guys are daring, for pete sakes. Link to video
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Posted: 3/8/2015 2:21 PM
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turska
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With all four levels included, Donkey Kong Original Edition is a more complete port of the original game than NES Donkey Kong. The published TAS of Donkey Kong ([1352] NES Donkey Kong by Phil in 01:08.67) represents a subset of this movie; all levels in it it are also completed in this TAS. DK Original Edition and NES DK are both ports of the original Donkey Kong - since the former is more complete, it could be the preferred version and obsolete NES Donkey Kong. Tiering is also difficult - 841M was automatically placed in Moons due to its rating when the tiering system was introduced. However, the Donkey Kong Original Edition "100%" TAS was published in the Vault; by modern standards, Donkey Kong might be a Vault-worthy game choice, and this run doesn't look very different from the 100% branch.
Posted: 3/8/2015 11:52 PM
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jlun2
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Change of tastes over time perhaps? But anyways I'm not sure how to vote for this; the other TAS made by phil was "unique", but this one according to the submission text is the mostly the same as the other but with an added level. That makes it hard to vote since I'm tempted to vote "meh" since I'm not "surprised" anymore.
LLCoolDave wrote:
This seems to be competing for the "Worst looking TAS of 2011" Award.
Posted: 3/9/2015 12:09 AM
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GoddessMaria
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As turska has explained, this game is a more complete port for Donkey Kong than the initially released Donkey Kong game for NES and the published TAS of that version appears to be on equal grounds as this submission with the addition of an extra stage from the original arcade version. Even with the additional stage, I feel that it should be side by side with the NES DK due to the originally packaged game being its own game on the native system and this one is more faithful to the original Arcade version while being packaged as an NES ROM stored into a Wii Virtual Console WAD. As for this TAS, I hadn't initially seen Phil's NES Donkey Kong TAS until this game surfaced and then I realized that it was interesting. Knowing that the strategy for this run is about identical to that one, it can be a tough call. Nevertheless, I was a bit entertained to just go with a yes vote.
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Posted: 3/9/2015 5:41 AM
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electricslide
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Disagreed strongly with Goddess Maria's earlier judging decision. I still don't see how a slower, arbitrary goal is vaultworthy. This, I don't really see the point vs the NES port, which as Spikestuff said should not be obsoleted. I agree. Don't obsolete, just reject this. If it's faster I'd say obsolete. But it's no faster. Also, I really dislike replacing the NES originals with the WII remakes. Consideration should be given to the history of the NES. We wouldn't replace the NES super Mario with the SNES all-stars version.
Posted: 3/9/2015 5:53 AM
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Spikestuff
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electricslide wrote:
Disagreed strongly with Goddess Maria's earlier judging decision. I still don't see how a slower, arbitrary goal is vaultworthy. ... Don't obsolete, just reject this.
And this is a reason why we cannot go with your judgement. Do you understand what it means to have an extra stage(s) in a game? (I would also add Gex: Enter the Gecko into this but no one is TASing the PS version of this game only N64.)
electricslide wrote:
We wouldn't replace the NES super Mario with the SNES all-stars version.
No shit!
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Posted: 3/9/2015 9:03 AM
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feos
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NES TAS of 2011
I am for obsoletion. This game was made at the same time (or even earlier) as the official NES one, and it's indeed original. Being for the same console architecture as NES in the first place does help. Having both is only worthy if their outcomes are different. But while this run eats the contents of the current NES run completely, it has something to add, and still the outcome is the same. Swallow the current one then, there's simply no content benefit otherwise.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 3/9/2015 12:25 PM
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andypanther
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Spikestuff wrote:
Do you understand what it means to have an extra stage(s) in a game? (I would also add Gex: Enter the Gecko into this but no one is TASing the PS version of this game only N64.)
The extra stages that the PS version of Gex has are bonus stages and therefore irrelevant for any%. Additionally, each version has one exclusive regular stage, so that number is actually the same. It just happens that the N64-exclusive stage breaks the intended route through the overworld because it gives us more remotes early on, allowing us to skip a boss. A separate any% for PS would be almost identical, just with one different level, an additional boss and a lot of lost time due to extra dialogues and loading screens. But I agree with you for 100%. That category should definitely be done on PS.
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Posted: 3/9/2015 12:40 PM
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Noxxa
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electricslide wrote:
This, I don't really see the point vs the NES port, which as Spikestuff said should not be obsoleted. I agree. Don't obsolete, just reject this. [...] Also, I really dislike replacing the NES originals with the WII remakes. Consideration should be given to the history of the NES. We wouldn't replace the NES super Mario with the SNES all-stars version.
This is not a remake. This is literally the exact same game as the NES release, just with the missing stage from the arcade version included. As such, since this game's content entirely supersedes and contains that of the original NES game, I'd say it is worth obsoleting it.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 3/9/2015 12:58 PM
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AngerFist
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If Phil's run is obsoleted because adelikat is faster then by all means, obsolete Phil's run. But it's equally fast as stated in the submission text. That's quite discouraging for Phil and how we normally obsolete a slower run. That was my two cents.
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Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
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I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
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Posted: 3/9/2015 2:23 PM
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Kirkq
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Statistically more people bought NTSC versions of games than PAL. (Something like 90% of NES games are NTSC, I cited this a long time ago.) Even if the game has the exact same content plus addtional, in my opinion there is still great value in having the original present, as it represents the fastest time in the version that the most people played by a large margin. People will see this run and think "This is not quite the game I played, where is the TAS of the one I played?" I don't think they should have to dig through obsolete movies to find it.
electricslide wrote:
Also, I really dislike replacing the NES originals with the WII remakes. Consideration should be given to the history of the NES. We wouldn't replace the NES super Mario with the SNES all-stars version.
Similarly if NES Super Mario Bros had an extra level on PAL, I don't think we should want to obsolete the NTSC run.
GoddessMaria15 wrote:
Even with the additional stage, I feel that it should be side by side with the NES DK due to the originally packaged game being its own game on the native system and this one is more faithful to the original Arcade version while being packaged as an NES ROM stored into a Wii Virtual Console WAD.
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Posted: 3/9/2015 2:37 PM
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andypanther
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How about we publish this alongside the old 3 level run, but eventually obsolete this one with a TAS of the arcade original?
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Posted: 3/9/2015 4:56 PM
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Raiscan
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Voting yes to obsolete the original game and because, as adelikat knows, I'm fond of TAS'ed Apes.
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Posted: 3/9/2015 8:39 PM
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Nicos
Joined: 6/4/2009
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yes vote and as for the obseletion of the other run i'll quote this :
GoddessMaria15: It appears that the responses for this game and goal choice are divided. Some are okay with it and others are not. Considering that a consensus was made in the IRC in regards to the game and goal's legitimacy, I have come to the decision of accepting it for the Vault. The optimization is solid and the goal is considered "100%" by the game's manual. The Consensus: The ROM has been confirmed to run as a proper NTSC game at 60 FPS by BizHawk. As for the region coding, the game is identical for both NTSC and PAL regions and as such works for both regions as evidenced by the Wii and 3DS releases of this game. The extra stage was excluded from the NES DK game due to size and time constraints, but looks as if it were probably planned to be included. As such, we can consider this game extract of the Virtual Console WAD to be the "true" version of the game. The goal is also considered valid, as the game's instruction manual refers to the collecting the accessories as an extra goal, mentioning it as "what a true hero would do", and fitting the basic criteria for 100% completion.
if this rom can run on a real NES then i consider it as a "skyblazer" case where a run of the final rom obseleted the beta version, so yes for obseleting the "other run"
Posted: 3/10/2015 12:38 PM
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electricslide
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This is not a remake.
Yes, it is a remake. Some 20+ years after the NES orginal.
This is literally the exact same game as the NES release
Except it's not as you go on to point out. It's got different stages and it's slower.
As such, since this game's content entirely supersedes
Is it faster or slower? All that's been done is copied inputs from before. No way should this obsolete. Shave time, sure. But it's the exact same inputs. I guess we can expect to see every single NES publication to be 'superceded' by wii remakes. Sounds like fun.
Posted: 3/10/2015 12:41 PM
(Edited: 3/10/2015 12:48 PM)
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electricslide
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where a run of the final rom obseleted the beta version
I suppose Phil's run is the 'beta' version, eh? Small comfort. Fact is, the game ain't 'beta' no matter how you slice it. Glad to see zero consideration for the people who actually tas'ed the game and supplied the majority of the input. Terrible, terrible precedent. If it was faster, I'd totally agree. But it's not.
Posted: 3/10/2015 12:48 PM
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adelikat
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1) I dont' believe this ROM to be a "Wii Remake". I believe it to be a real NES rom, and most likely pre-dated the "official" version 2) I didn't just "copy inputs", this is my own work.
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Posted: 3/10/2015 12:50 PM
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AntyMew
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electricslide wrote:
This is literally the exact same game as the NES release
Except it's not as you go on to point out. It's got different stages and it's slower.
As such, since this game's content entirely supersedes
Is it faster or slower? All that's been done is copied inputs from before. No way should this obsolete. Shave time, sure. But it's the exact same inputs. I guess we can expect to see every single NES publication to be 'superceded' by wii remakes. Sounds like fun.
This "remake" features a stage otherwise only available in the arcade release, which has even worse emulation than Dolphin. This run has a possibility of obsoleting (note: not a guarantee) the current Donkey Kong run not because it is a Wii rerelease, but because it is more complete, and matches the time of the old run in the stages which are in both runs.
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Posted: 3/10/2015 12:51 PM
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electricslide
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I dont' believe this ROM to be a "Wii Remake". I believe it to be a real NES rom, and most likely pre-dated the "official" version
What are the facts? Fact is - it's a Wii remake. http://www.nintendolife.com/reviews/3ds-eshop/donkey_kong_original_edition_nes
Nintendo released Donkey Kong: Original Edition on Wii in Europe, and later 3DS in North America; now, it's simply available to purchase in the 3DS eShop.
Release date on the 3DS? September of 2014. Which explains why you're running this now. No way this should obsolete.
Posted: 3/10/2015 12:56 PM
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electricslide
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This "remake" features a stage otherwise only available in the arcade release, which has even worse emulation than Dolphin. This run has a possibility of obsoleting (note: not a guarantee) the current Donkey Kong run not because it is a Wii rerelease, but because it is more complete, and matches the time of the old run in the stages which are in both runs.
It's a different game. I'm not sure how hard this is to understand. It's publication is 20 years after the original - based on a completely different platform with extra material. You can rephrase, state, claim whatever you want, but it's a WII game on the 3DS. Based on, but not a NES game. Put out in 2014. How would you do console verification with this run? Could you verify it on an NES? No? Then it shouldn't obsolete.
Posted: 3/10/2015 12:58 PM
(Edited: 3/10/2015 1:00 PM)
Post subject: You're pulling straws/nitpicking? Fine then.
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Spikestuff
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electricslide wrote:
September of 2014.
electricslide wrote:
Put out in 2014.
"©1983 - 2010 NINTENDO" The shit are you on about?
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Posted: 3/10/2015 12:59 PM
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AntyMew
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electricslide wrote:
What are the facts?
TASVideoAgent wrote:
The board type used for this game is MMC1 while the original was NROM I think this is evidence that this version actually predates the original! The game doesn't quite fit on the (cheaper) NROM that is limited to 32kb, so rather than use a more expensive board such as MMC1, a level was gutted. It makes more sense that the pre-gutted version was released 25 years later as opposed to someone going back and writing in assembly an extra level into the game
electricslide wrote:
Could you verify it on an NES? No?
Almost certainly
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Posted: 3/10/2015 1:03 PM
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electricslide
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Anty, could it be console verified on the NES? Spikestuff, actual release date for the 3DS would be this year.
3DS eShop Release Date: 18th Sep 2014, £4.49/€4.99 (UK/EU)
It's never been released for the NES. How can it be an NES game when it's not released for it?
Posted: 3/10/2015 1:05 PM
(Edited: 3/10/2015 1:08 PM)
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electricslide
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Almost certainly
Good luck. If it can't then that's a sign that there might be something more going on. Is it not possible that they could have done other things to the game besides simply adding the level? It's been 25 years. That's my concern.
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