Submission Text Full Submission Page
Super Metroid 100% Map Completion (Code Name: Shinespark Amusement Park) This TAS aims to color in any and every map square that can be colored in. It visits places on Zebes that are normally never visited in other categories. In doing so, the primary goal of this game are met and beats the game in a non-glitched run.
  • Emulator used: BizHawk 1.7.0
  • To turn every map square to pink that can be colored pink
  • Accomplishes this coloring with "Never Before Seen" Shinesparks.

I am adding an extra comment that I failed to add previously !!!

My appologies for not giving credit for the 5 to 10% of code created by Cpadolf. Please don't think that I purposefully missed this. You can confirm from my previous two submissions that I give credit to CP for his optimized work. Again, this was missed by accident.
This TAS uses a variety of techniques to accomplish the goal of completing the entire map by coloring in all blue areas...pink. The route for this TAS was dramatically different from that of the human RTA WR. This change reduces the amount of "Revisits" to already colored areas. Shinesparks are primarily used to color in hard to get to places and quickly allows movement through rooms where repetitive jumping is needed. Many non-human tricks contribute to goals where frame perfect, pixel perfect, and speed perfect allowed best efforts to move quickly through areas.
This is the first known calaboration between a TASer and community. The primary contributor to my TAS was the amazing EternisedDragon, who has a deep understanding of the physics of the Super Metroid engine. Other contributors to this project include: Straevaras, Sweetnumb, Redslash, Grommie122, Foosda, RodrigoAndrade7, Nintoaster_81, Mawcdrums, nutella4eva, Starzonmyarmz, Jronaggaz, Tewtal, Kojakt, EODTex, Anoraz_Xarona, UFabianx, JoshButro, Stigzilla, Hetfield90, Edu207, DasBlurr, OldSchoolTribe, Mishrak109, Sickents, Matrick2298, Benlake412, lxx4xNx6xxl, Lioran, BlackStarKupo, Hubert0987, Moe_187, Overfiendvip, WildAnaconda69, MartyMoinklers, RetrophileTV, Omnissam, AxlSR, sniqwc3, Nighty93, Mechashiva76, Full_Halfie, Torment99.
Shinesparks of this game:
  1. Post Crocomire Shinespark
  2. Watergate Shinespark (NYMX/EternisedDragon)
  3. Post-Grapple Shinespark
  4. Alpha Spark
  5. Post X-Ray Shinespark
  6. Red Tower Shinespark (NYMX)
  7. Mote Shinespark (NYMX)
  8. Partial Ocean Shinespark
  9. Bowling Shinespark
  10. Dragon Shinespark (EternisedDragon)
  11. Maridia Shinespark I
  12. Maridia Shinespark II (Post Spring ball)
  13. Maridia Shinespark III
  14. Maridia Mountain Shinespark I
  15. Maridia Mountain Shinespark II (Common Any%)
  16. Botwoon Swagspark
  17. Roly Poly Skip Shinespark
  18. Post Roly Poly Shinespark
  19. Draygon Attack Shinespark I
  20. Draygon Attack Shinespark II
  21. Draygon Attack Shinespark III (Blue Suit)
  22. Reverse Fullhalfie Shinespark
  23. Wave Substitute Shinespark
  24. Fast Pillars Shinespark
  25. Pinata Shinespark, Ninja Pirates
  26. Post Ridley Shinespark
  27. Maridia Shinespark IV (NYMX Original)
  28. Crateria Coloring Shinespark I
  29. Platform Shinespark
  30. Guanlet Shinespark
  31. Dechora Shinespark
  32. Charge Spark
  33. Blue Brinstar Shinespark
  34. Pit Shinespark
  35. Old Tourian Shinespark
  36. Mother Brain Death Spark (NYMX Original)
  37. Escape Shinespark I (NYMX Original)
  38. Escape Shinespark II
  39. Crateria Coloring Spark II
There are many things that need to be corrected and should remove about 1 minutes and 30 seconds worth of time. These problems range in all kinds of techniques and routing problems. A follow up version will be worked on.
Final Stats:
  • In Game Time: 00:44
  • Percentage of Items Colected: 33%
  • TAS Time: 74:58.93
  • RTA Converted Time (Human comparison): 72:41.516
  • Beats the human record by 10:22, currently held by SweetNumb at 1:23:03.00
Noxxa: Judging.
Noxxa: First of all, I'd like to commend NYMX and the Deer Tier community members involved with making this TAS. It is a good attempt, and it is clear that a lot of work has been put into the run. Unfortunately though, I will reject this run for publication on this site.
One thing I find problematic is the lack of description put into the submission topic, resulting in questions which are left unanswered. When it became clear that over three minutes of cpadolf's 100% run input was copied, I would really have liked to know exactly how much input and which parts were copied, and read it in the submission comments - but instead, all we got was a cryptic "5 to 10%" input by cpadolf. The important specifics are left unanswered. Requests by many people for coauthoring cpadolf for copying a significant amount of input were also ignored. We also never got any specifics in the submission text about the 90 seconds of known improvements, the routing, or 'new tricks' which were talked about. Information about these was also asked by various people including myself but again never addressed. There is a nearly four-hour commentary video on twitch.tv, so I find it weird that so little information could be given about the run in the submission text itself.
However, that is not even the major issue - the actual reason I am rejecting this run is because, quite simply, viewer feedback to the category was poor. Many people in the submission discussion disagreed with the category choice not going for 100% items, making a large part of the run look like entering through rooms and 'oddly' leaving without picking up any visible items, or otherwise entering rooms without any purpose. Obviously it's a part of this category, but it still appears odd. We understand that this is a recognised category on Deer Tier, but here on TASVideos we can only publish the categories that we deem interesting and entertaining enough, and Super Metroid is already overflowing with categories on this site as is. Deer Tier is a community dedicated to Super Metroid and we are not, so we have different standards here. If Deer Tier wishes to host this TAS on their own site, then more power to them; but the category just doesn't click with the TASVideos audience here.
The lack of optimality, particularly compared to current Super Metroid publications on this site, and compounded with the relatively large 90 seconds of known improvements, didn't help viewer response either - but I don't believe that an optimized improvement would be enough to save the category.
As such, rejecting for poor viewer feedback and bad goal choice.

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Posted: 6/9/2015 3:14 PM
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Noxxa
They/Them
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Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
Warp wrote:
Just as a reminder, and to clarify things if they aren't clear (from a kind of more "legal" point of view): When someone submits a TAS to this site, there's this piece of text alongside the submission button: "By pressing "Save/Edit" you agree to publish this content under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 license." Said license establishes the following permissions:
Creative Commons CC BY 2.0 wrote:
You are free to: Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material for any purpose, even commercially. The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.
So in order to avoid any kind of misunderstandings: Yes, anybody can take any TAS published at tasvideos.org and use it as he or she sees fit, for any purpose whatsoever. The author of the TAS cannot retroactively revoke these freedoms from anybody, no matter how much he or she "owns" the TAS. (By submitting, the author agreed to this license. If the author doesn't agree with it, then he or she shouldn't have submitted in the first place. After submission it's too late to take it back. Again: These freedoms cannot be revoked even by the original author.) That being said, the same license imposes some restrictions on this usage, namely:
Creative Commons CC BY 2.0 wrote:
Under the following terms: Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use. No additional restrictions — You may not apply legal terms or technological measures that legally restrict others from doing anything the license permits.
While it was a mistake to not give credit in the publication text, this has been fixed, so it ought to be ok.
Warp, while what you are saying is correct regarding copyright, licensing and such legal matters, that is entirely irrelevant to the topic at hand, which is the notion of adding credit in the form of coauthorship in the site movie rules, which are requirements for a movie publication on this site, not for being legal intellectual property. We are not suing nymx or sending lawyers at him for not coauthoring cpadolf, or anything as silly as that. Legal matters aren't coming into play here.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Posted: 6/9/2015 3:25 PM
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ALAKTORN
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Former player
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
DS TAS of 2012
Tangent wrote:
Like Resident Evil, there's a ridiculous amount of dead time due to door transitions and item collection. The in-game time provides a decent rough estimate to that dead time in Super Metroid's case, where you can see it's to the tune of half an hour. And those are only the improvements that he's aware of. There are very likely more if he's not doing somewhat basic things like resource management well.
Fair enough.
Posted: 6/9/2015 3:47 PM
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Nintoaster_81
Joined: 6/8/2015
Posts: 5
Samsara and Invariel, thank you for taking the time to clarify things. I'm not going to go through and quote farm both of your responses, as I think that's unnecessary at this point now that we better understand each other. Or rather, I understand you guys much better, so I don't think much else needs to be said. This is not a cop-out; I read through both of your responses carefully, and you both make many valid points. I will address one thing, though:
Invariel wrote:
That's a bit mean. The people who work on TASes here are human, prone to error and emotion. The tools we use remove human error during replay from the equation, but they do not remove human error during route planning or execution. That would be like saying that computer programming removes the human element from logical mathematics.
What I meant by the "human element" was that there is no live human player producing inputs on a controller in an RTA setting. My apologies if this was misconstrued. I fully understand that there is still a human element to TAS-ing, and that comment was in no way meant to discount that fact. On a side note to this, one of our members actually created a "human" TAS for the purpose of comparing the two any% routes and seeing what was theoretically possible with a "perfect" human RTA run. All the game play was performed and recorded by him, with some minor RNG manipulation, and then all of the best segments were pieced together. It was interesting to see both the level of optimization with the new route and its effect on time save in an RTA setting, as well as what times are possible with a "golden run" (which pretty well never happens for any of us). Anyways, again, thanks for clarifying, and I wish your community well. I have a new appreciation for the quality of work that gets posted here, and hope to see more of it in the future.
Posted: 6/9/2015 3:54 PM
Post subject: Hey Nymx
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JoshButro
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Former player
Joined: 1/8/2015
Posts: 43
Just wanted to congratulate you Nymx on finishing this TAS. You have spent a lot of time on it, and you should be proud of that. [Before i start, i want to mention, i have not read all the comments/posts, thats a lot for me to read, and frankly will take me too long, so my opinion is my opinion.] Nymx, I have enjoyed watching your TAS on Sunday afternoons on Twitch, i my not have been active some weeks, but i was lurking. I liked the community approach, as some people have ideas but do not put the effort into making a TAS, so sharing ideas is constructive, and i plan on doing a TAS live like you did. I was entertained by the run, i enjoyed seeing shinesparks where i did not think they could be performed. I have occasionally watched SM runs and TASes, but it was interesting to see this 100% map completion, because parts of the map are never seen in other runs. Having said there are ~90seconds of improvements, should be a starting point for another TAS by you or someone else. Along the way improvements can be found, and a first TAS completed, and these improvements are motivation for another run. if you plan on 100% map v2 TAS, you may find even more. I enjoyed the run, and watched how much effort you put into it. Don't let anything discourage you from making a v2 or another TAS. You put the effort in and completed this. Be proud of that. Completing a TAS is an accomplishment.
current TAS: Q*Bert 3 any% v2TAS<br> next TAS: Q*Bert 3 X*Bert levels
Posted: 6/9/2015 5:15 PM
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Nicos
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 893
while it look like a good run completing the whole map WITHOUT collecting all the items seems kinda stupid.... and is the setup for an arbitrary category, so i'll have to vote no...
Posted: 6/9/2015 6:00 PM
(Edited: 11/15/2016 1:19 PM)
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Schmeman
Joined: 6/8/2015
Posts: 30
s.
Posted: 6/9/2015 6:57 PM
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Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Mothrayas wrote:
Warp, while what you are saying is correct regarding copyright, licensing and such legal matters, that is entirely irrelevant to the topic at hand, which is the notion of adding credit in the form of coauthorship in the site movie rules, which are requirements for a movie publication on this site, not for being legal intellectual property. We are not suing nymx or sending lawyers at him for not coauthoring cpadolf, or anything as silly as that. Legal matters aren't coming into play here.
You misunderstand me. I was simply pre-emptively trying to avoid people throwing accusations of this TASer having "stolen" something from cpadolf or somebody else. It may not be clear to everybody what the usage license of TASes published here is.
Posted: 6/9/2015 7:32 PM
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TASeditor
Editor, Skilled player (1535)
Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319
Glitchy TAS of 2015 NES TASer of 2014 Speedy TAS of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
To be fair, the movie rules needs better clarification on co-authoring others when input is copied. Depending on the situation and the game, co-authorship makes sense or not. For a simple game where a section consists only of pressing right and no astethic choices can be made, it makes no sense to add co-authorship when the input is copied. However when the game is rather complex and allows astethic choices, co-authorship will be needed, except the TASer makes own asthetic choises by heavily modifing the original input. Of course when the TASer thinks others deserve co-authorship, even no input from them was used directly, it welcome to do so. The problem with that submission is that it is a categorie no one did before, so an user who is not expierenced with the game has no obsoleted version to compare to. Also the lack of information on submission texts makes users sceptical about them, in this case it has no meaningful explanations, then users come to the conclusion the TASer is experienced.
Favorite animal: STOCK Gt(ROSA)26Sortm1.1(rtTA,EGFP)Nagy Grm7Tg(SMN2)89Ahmb Smn1tm1Msd Tg(SMN2*delta7)4299Ahmb Tg(tetO-SMN2,-luc)#aAhmb/J YouTube Twitch
Posted: 6/9/2015 8:58 PM
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Nicos
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 893
Schmeman wrote:
I can understand, to an extent, that some may find the goal to be too arbitrary for general audiences. When asking the question "is it different enough from 100% to warrant being published", as a runner of the game, I have to immediately say yes it is different enough. However, I'm willing to admit, to a general audience member, with which TASvideos strives to appeal towards, it may not seem all that different and the goal itself may seem especially arbitrary. The reason that the category does not collect every item is simply because it does very little to change the route or strategies present in the run and instead adds on all of the item fanfare. This especially makes sense in an RTA run because it's boring to sit through all that item fanfare. However, from a general audience standpoint, it may not make sense why you don't get all the items along with all the map tiles (or even save the animals) and I've seen this wondered so many times in Twitch chatrooms. I hope this message is more clear than my previous one, which was basically just a quick disagreement against the arbitrary claims. I can see now how it could be viewed as such, even if I disagree.
hi, thanks for your answer our rules are really stict on the "main" branches : any % / 100 % / play around % (+ sub branches like Glitched /ACE /etc...) this tas would go then on the "play around" branch meaning that it MUST have a high interest ratio. the problem with super metroid is that there are already too much branches of the game and all the published runs are made by "M2k2 hardcore ADHD fan" style experienced tasers, meaning that your TAS have to basicaly be"Flawless and entertaining or nothing" . Just collecting the map will not be enough to warrant the entertainement requiered for a "possible publication" (thus the arbitrory goal as it's your "main selling point" if you want to include a "all map completion" then i sugest you doing it while doing a 100% TAS, it would be more logic and might add depth to the route. Also having a twitch audience for the imput is good BUT when you submit a run there , the TASVideo community is the main target you should aim for... go submit WIP'S on the super metroid page and ask for feedback you might get harsh responses (again it's super metroid we're talking about) but you'll get on the right tracks and if you can manage to overcome the difficulty, you WILL get a positive feedback have a nice day :)
Posted: 6/9/2015 10:01 PM
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Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Nicos wrote:
if you want to include a "all map completion" then i sugest you doing it while doing a 100% TAS, it would be more logic and might add depth to the route.
Honestly I doubt it would help. The problem is the item jingles that play every time you grab an item -- it's something like 5-6 seconds per item, there's 100 of them in the game, and relatively few of them actually come in handy for going faster. In a hypothetical encode that skips the jingles and the door transitions, this isn't so much of an issue, but those hypothetical encodes aren't meant to be used as the basis for judging runs (nevermind that probably there are plenty of people who have voted on SM submissions in the past having only watched such "cutsceneless" runs). The secondary issue is that map coverage is always going to be a "...why would you bother?" category for a lot of people. We've had Castlevania: Symphony of the Night/Circle of the Moon map coverage runs and IIRC both got rejected for being too arbitrary (SotN does track your map% and even uses it to get the good ending, but IIRC we got into a fight about the glitches that enable extra map% beyond the normal max of 200.6%). But yeah, a 100% + map% run would probably get a lot of reactions along the lines of "so why did you bother to make all these little detours while getting all the items?" and "slower than the actual 100% run, voting no".
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Posted: 6/9/2015 11:12 PM
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RT-55J
Player (150)
Joined: 11/27/2004
Posts: 688
Location: WA State, USA
Yet another multipage culstercuss of a Super Metroid submission thread. Has anybody kept track of how many of these we've had?
Nach wrote:
I also used to wake up every morning, open my curtains, and see the twin towers. And then one day, wasn't able to anymore, I'll never forget that.
Posted: 6/10/2015 5:37 AM
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Cpadolf
Skilled player (1443)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
SNES TASer of 2009 Rookie of 2008 SNES TASer of 2008
Haven't watched the whole run, only bits and pieces, but I saw a part of the twitch video where you were unsure of how I charged a bluesuit on the treadmills in WS. I'm fairly sure that's not an emulation error but something that happens when you unmorph at exactly the right distance from the floor (in such a way that there's no airtime before hitting the floor but also so that you don't touch the floor until you're fully unmorphed). For whatever reason this will make you unaffected by the treadmill. Possibly related to this is that if you do it correctly your vertical speed will not be reset like it usually is when touching the ground, but will freeze in the value it had just before landing until you jump/crouch which will also make you affected by the treadmill again. Might watch more of the run later to see if there's any more interesting questions that are brought up in the run.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Posted: 6/10/2015 8:23 PM
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nymx
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Cpadolf wrote:
Haven't watched the whole run, only bits and pieces, but I saw a part of the twitch video where you were unsure of how I charged a bluesuit on the treadmills in WS. I'm fairly sure that's not an emulation error but something that happens when you unmorph at exactly the right distance from the floor (in such a way that there's no airtime before hitting the floor but also so that you don't touch the floor until you're fully unmorphed). For whatever reason this will make you unaffected by the treadmill. Possibly related to this is that if you do it correctly your vertical speed will not be reset like it usually is when touching the ground, but will freeze in the value it had just before landing until you jump/crouch which will also make you affected by the treadmill again. Might watch more of the run later to see if there's any more interesting questions that are brought up in the run.
CPAdolf!!! Thank you for you comment! You have been my favorite TASer and you are certainly my Hero! I would love to meet up with you on Skype sometime and talk about these crazy things that I experienced. Just want you to know...that I forgot to write in your name in my original submission and definitely didn't want to falsly take credit for your work. This can be verified by looking at my Spore Spawn TASes submissions. It was just a mistake. BTW, I plan on redoing this and hoping to chop off more time. I would love your input. I'll also be working with EternisedDragon on the second version. If you are interested...please just send a private message to my twitch account.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Posted: 6/11/2015 2:06 AM
(Edited: 6/12/2015 12:04 PM)
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Spikestuff
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nymx wrote:
I forgot to write in your name in my original submission and definitely didn't want to falsly take credit for your work.
That's a lie in itself, on the date of submitting you had it as: NYMX SNES Super Metroid "100% Map Completion by NYMX and EnternisedDragon" in 1:14:51.54 And you never bothered to correct it yourself by adding Cpadolf's name to it. Heck, you just made an edit to apologize and you still haven't added Cpadolf's name to it.
nymx wrote:
BTW, I plan on redoing this and hoping to chop off more time.
Okay, use the latest version of BizHawk and don't swipe any input from Cpadolf this time. BizHawk is currently at 1.9.4 and is not at the 1.7.0 version you have been using just to nab Cpadolf's input Also welcome back, now hows about you get to all of the judges questions and every other post questioning about this TAS rather than leaving it to someone who didn't work on this TAS. Edit: Yes, this post was out of spite. But seriously, use the latest version of BizHawk.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
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Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Posted: 6/11/2015 4:31 AM
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Ragnarokia
Joined: 9/1/2014
Posts: 58
Tried reading through the posts but it soon got confused and long. The overall feel it seems to have is negative with many questions and problems being voiced like the copying of work so going to have to vote no as it stands. It does seem like a bit of a trainwreck. Hopefully you can use this experience to make new and better stuff without the trainwreck of issues attached.
Enjoys speedruns but hasn't actually tried making any yet.
Posted: 6/11/2015 2:28 PM
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Reeve
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
I've finally managed to watch enough of the run to vote and post a few things. I'm giving this a "No". Reason is it was not as entertaining and optimized as other runs I've watched in this site. It is already very hard for TAsvideos to accept a new category for this game, even if it's highly optimized (Cpadolf's in-game time old run, Namespoofer's low% speedbooster, Saturn's low% Ice, Saturn's GT code, Saturn's PAL in-game time, Saturn's in-game time...), even harder it is to accept a new category that's not optimized. I'd like to point a few stuff for your next attempt. It may be part of the 90 seconds of improvements that you already know about, but it also justifies why I'm voting "no". Just ignore the order as I'm posting the comments as I'm remembering them. While this run aims for realtime (as far as I know) it uses many in-game time strats. As examples I can point the high jump through the door leading to the noob bridge room, the pauses in the refill stations and not jumping through the door in the top of the vertical hunters room in Lower Norfair. While you used Cpadolf's inputs in some parts of the run, there are many rooms you could have used them too, but instead you used slower strategies. The best is to compare many existing rooms strategies and see if you can beat the fastest one or at least equal. Better planing would save a lot of time. I don't know if it's the case, but it can be better to get extra packs than refilling all the time. many pink doors were openned with missiles while Supers save a lot of time. It seems the route could be better planned too. The Draygon fight can be faster even in realtime. The Phantoon fight where we always expect to see a fast pattern one round, you went for a slow (iirc) to refill your missiles, this meant bad ammo management. Many shinesparks were used and although it is a really nice trick it's not always the fastest option. You used a shinespark over Crocomire's room when you could have jumped through the door. By doing that you would avoid the shinespark crash animation, would be able to gather a lot of speed to go through the refill station room and the lava room with grapple blocks. Having Ice equiped would probably save some time in the GT fight. Iirc you didn't have full supers for Ridley and also didn't have Ice equiped for the fight. You picked what seemed to be the worst pattern for Kraid, which generated tons of lag frames. Well, that was my impression from watching the video in youtube. To get a better pattern, iirc, you just need to enter the room in a different in-game frame. There are lots of other stuffs that could've been improved just by using strategies used in other TASes. I just pointed a few stuff there was in my mind after watching the run. I hope you try again and improve your run, but have in mind that, if you intend to submit it here again, even if you manage to improve this run in terms of time completion and entertainment, there's no way to know if it will be accepted for publication. If you have any doubts it will be better to post them in the super metroid thread. Good luck on your projects!
nymx wrote:
CPAdolf!!! Thank you for you comment! You have been my favorite TASer and you are certainly my Hero! I would love to meet up with you on Skype sometime and talk about these crazy things that I experienced.
This is what made Cpadolf the TASer he is now:
Cpadolf wrote:
Without frame advance, memory watch or any of the other usual conveniences, I made my first run with nothing but good ol'24% speed and rerecords. And after about 8 hours of work I had created my very own TAS of Super Metroid. I think it goes without saying that it was horrible. But with encouraged and some pointers, mainly from hero of the day, Saturn, and later moozooh I set out to improve my work. The second run used frame advance, it still sucked but I started to get the hang of it. In the third I incorporated the memory watcher, and upped the optimization quite a bit. This time I started to close in on the then published runs on the site, and sure enough the fourth run I made was also the first I submitted to this site. It was, however, rejected after a long discussion, due to having a bad goal, aiming for fastest ingame time rather than the fastest actual time. Not being discouraged by the decision I went on to make a fifth version of the same run, which I submitted without any actual intent of getting it published. Much to my surprise however, it was. Thus I was finally an official player on the site, and the rest as they say is history.
Posted: 6/11/2015 6:36 PM
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Cpadolf
Skilled player (1443)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
SNES TASer of 2009 Rookie of 2008 SNES TASer of 2008
For the record I don't mind the copying and definitely don't think I should have been listed as an author (the only real argument for this imo is that some of the waiting sequences are also directly copied which is something I dislike not because it was "stolen" from me but because they are missed opportunities to infuse your own personality into the run). And not initially giving credit in the submission text is an honest mistake, and looking at the twitch stream or other submissions makes it clear the author wasn't trying to pretend he didn't make use of my run. I will say though that copying input directly without paying much or any mind to why the other TASers of this game do the things they do, or how they optimize movement makes you miss out on an excellent opportunity to improve your own TASing. What you could do is to not copy a bulk of the input but instead recreate it manually frame by frame. It's far more time consuming but will help you learn a ton of stuff by really observing on a microscopic level all the things that are done to optimize movement. Even better still might be to do any given room blindly, and then compare it to an existing run and figure out all the things that might have made you slower and making sure you remember it all for the rooms where you don't have anything to compare against. Getting a a good grasp of how to move optimally, and how to think when trying to find an optimal way to move through a room might eventually have you shave much more than 90 seconds off of the run even if you didn't change a single strategy. Primarily the thing to think about is that you should be critical of any decision you make in how you move. Taking a very simple example, at about 11:08 into Spikestuffs youtube video you unmorph in midair to shoot a red door with a Super Missile. Why did you unmorph at that exact point? Why not a frame sooner or a frame later? Testing both options to their full extent would have you eventually find that it would have been quicker to unmorph far closer to the ground, just close enough that the door will still have time to fully open just before you run into it. With excessive amounts of testing most movement optimization will become second nature but it does take a lot of time and patience. The key to understanding a lot of this stuff better is getting comfortable with using a RAMwatch to monitor all the interesting values in the game. I've uploaded mine which can be used in bizhawk here. Anyway, as for the run itself it is generally too lacking in optimization to garner a yes vote, and I'm not even sure that a fully realized 100% map TAS would be a good fit on this particular site. But looking at the run I do think that the category has the potential to be very interesting if enough work and optimization is put into it, and I'd be happy to see more attempts.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Posted: 6/11/2015 7:51 PM
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AngerFist
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
First edition TAS of 2015 Innovative TAS of 2007
At this point Spikestuff, you really aren't contributing at all to this topic. Enough is enough, move forward and let it go and read Cpadolf's post above.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Posted: 6/12/2015 1:23 AM
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R1_4n6
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 454
Location: New York, US
Cpadolf said pretty much everything I wanted to say and then some. TASing is very tedious and may take even longer the way he explained, but for someone who is inexperienced in TASing and even someone who is experienced in TASing that is the best way to learn and improve your work. As well as talking to someone such as Cpadolf, Saturn, Hero of the Day, Taco and Kriole. As for the input issue which has thankfully been resolved, Cpadolf is right you should make your own inputs just to add your own flare to your project. Even though its understandable that you used his inputs because Cpadolf is a master entertainer and personally one of my favorite TASers on the site. I also think it was a travesty that his and Saturns runs were forgotten because they were done so early in the year to not even get nominated for SNES TAS of the year/TAS of the year. I think for a first attempt on Super Metroid TASing you did a splendid job! Its a great start and don't let it all the criticism get you down. Sadly I am giving this a NO Vote because it lacks the optimization that currently published runs have. I'm glad you guys took the time to make it and I enjoyed watching it regardless and I hope you continue to TAS and improve!!!
My name is Forensics.
Posted: 6/13/2015 10:12 AM
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TASVideosGrue
They/Them
Joined: 10/1/2008
Posts: 2785
Location: The dark corners of the TASVideos server
om, nom, nom... *burp*!
Posted: 6/14/2015 6:53 PM
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Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
I'm wondering how much longer a 100% items + 100% map run would be compared to the regular 100% items run. If the difference is relatively small, then... maybe it could be a possibility?
Posted: 6/14/2015 7:37 PM
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Cpadolf
Skilled player (1443)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
SNES TASer of 2009 Rookie of 2008 SNES TASer of 2008
My guess would be about 10 minutes. All the extra item fanfares would take 7.5 minutes, and then actually getting to all the items would sometimes take half a second and sometimes probably 10+ seconds.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Posted: 6/14/2015 7:37 PM
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Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4110)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Exotic platforms TASer of 2018 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018 Exotic platforms TASer of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TAS of 2017 Exotic platforms TASer of 2016 Exotic platforms TAS of 2016 Gameboy TASer of 2013
Warp wrote:
I'm wondering how much longer a 100% items + 100% map run would be compared to the regular 100% items run. If the difference is relatively small, then... maybe it could be a possibility?
Judging by the time and collection rate (33%) of this run, even factoring in the known improvements, a 100% items + 100% map run would be over 1:20 real-time by just the 67 extra 7-second item jingles alone. The current 100% items run is 1:08. So let's say it's 12 minutes slower at a minimum - I think that's a bit too much difference to be 'relatively small'.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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