Skilled player (1320)
Joined: 6/27/2014
Posts: 87
Location: Finland
Alright, I was able to shorten Resources page pattern with only moonwalk by 1 pixel and 8192 subpixels :P Note that this only works on platforms without wall behind samus, because samus can walk on air for 1 frame without falling: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/552956398/1%20pixel%208192%20sub%20shorter.smv
Skilled player (1431)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
I was able to get it another 24576 subpixels shorter (so 1.5 pixels in total), but I haven't been able to do a moonwalk on a platform that close to the edge. I've only been able to do it when I'm 53248 subpixels away from it or more. Could you provide an smv of that?
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Skilled player (1320)
Joined: 6/27/2014
Posts: 87
Location: Finland
Cpadolf wrote:
I was able to get it another 24576 subpixels shorter (so 1.5 pixels in total), but I haven't been able to do a moonwalk on a platform that close to the edge. I've only been able to do it when I'm 53248 subpixels away from it or more. Could you provide an smv of that?
I tried to combine it with unequipped speedbooster, can you try to optimize this too? It might make the thing 3-4 pixels shorter overall =D! and below is smv of airwalk provided http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1090698864/airwalk.smv edit: you cannot start airwalk from 0 subpixel, 49152 seems to be the minimum with dash held edit 2: but this gives like 1/4 pixel or 1/2 pixel more distance for charge right?
Skilled player (1431)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
Best I got was another 0.75 pixels or something, and that's with abusing the potential of the airwalk, otherwise I think it's 1/16th of a pixel. I don't think that's enough for anything significant still, but it might be possible to improve it more.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Skilled player (1320)
Joined: 6/27/2014
Posts: 87
Location: Finland
Cpadolf wrote:
Best I got was another 0.75 pixels or something, and that's with abusing the potential of the airwalk, otherwise I think it's 1/16th of a pixel. I don't think that's enough for anything significant still, but it might be possible to improve it more.
Insane Also , I guess this could finally allow pal to charge spark on ridley's platform. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I guess the dream of 2 taps + able to jump never happens... http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1256850219/colosseum%20speedcounter%202.smv
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 178
I've tried using 1.51 rr and even 1.43 and none work at all, except for the speedkeep turn-around one. edit: nvm I knew left-clicking the link is how you do it. but I was greedy upon seeing the SMV downloaded anyway. This stuff (moon-walk) seems really janky.
<^>v AB X LR s
Skilled player (1320)
Joined: 6/27/2014
Posts: 87
Location: Finland
Could this be a first major moonwalk timesaver? hyperwalk + icebeam made this possible. It's apparently possible to just switch directions from moonwalk and speed is kept. Without moonwalk, there was no space to get 3rd or 4th tap on 2 blocks wide spike platforms!!!!!! (even with frozen mochtroid extension) This could potentially save time in RBO at least: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1667108765/colosseum%20shinespark%20hyperwalk%20icebeam.smv
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
Sniq wrote:
It's apparently possible to just switch directions from moonwalk and speed is kept.
Just switch directions? No damage boost needed?
Former player
Joined: 6/28/2007
Posts: 67
Eye Of The Beholder wrote:
Sniq wrote:
It's apparently possible to just switch directions from moonwalk and speed is kept.
Just switch directions? No damage boost needed?
I think the trouble is that it isn't possible to moonwalk with speed in the first place unless damage is taken from a spike. :) Any other way that anyone can find to moonwalk with speed, especially without the use of specific enemies or room layouts, would be absolutely insane.
Joined: 5/12/2009
Posts: 748
Location: Brazil
I'm not sure if I understood it correctly, but when messing with the moonwalk using the speedkeeping trick it was only possible to switch directions once Samus gets vulnerable again, so you use a damage boost and the speed is kept while going to the oposite direction. When I read the post by Sniq I thought he found a way to switch direction imediately after the first moonwalking frames, so you would not have to wait the 60 invencibility frames.
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 444
Location: New York, US
Any progress on the possible Moonwalk application/integration?
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Former player
Joined: 6/28/2007
Posts: 67
lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:
Any progress on the possible Moonwalk application/integration?
Nothing except beginning a suitless underwater run with moonwalk gives Samus running momentum that usually takes over 30 frames to get, so running is immediately faster than jumping. I've known about that for a week or so but completely forgot to mention it in this thread.
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 444
Location: New York, US
Taco wrote:
Nothing except beginning a suitless underwater run with moonwalk gives Samus running momentum that usually takes over 30 frames to get, so running is immediately faster than jumping. I've known about that for a week or so but completely forgot to mention it in this thread.
Interesting I didn't even know that, so it seems it could have some uses in the RBO!!! I hope you guys crack the formula and break the game open even further with new techniques!!! Also maybe something might come of this. Can you do a temporary Blue Suit Unmorph and moonwalk to stand up and possibly keep the Blue Suit?
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Former player
Joined: 6/28/2007
Posts: 67
lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:
Also maybe something might come of this. Can you do a temporary Blue Suit Unmorph and moonwalk to stand up and possibly keep the Blue Suit?
Moonwalk doesn't force Samus to stand up; she'll just turn around while crouched.
lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:
Interesting I didn't even know that, so it seems it could have some uses in the RBO!!!
Not only RBO ;)
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 444
Location: New York, US
Taco wrote:
Moonwalk doesn't force Samus to stand up; she'll just turn around while crouched. ! Not only RBO ;)
Oh well that would have been cool if it did. So now I know moonwalk doesn't activate when crouched. :( You don't say, how very interesting!!! :)
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 444
Location: New York, US
Also another question I have is have you guys experimented with Left + Right when moonwalking?
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Former player
Joined: 6/28/2007
Posts: 67
lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:
Also another question I have is have you guys experimented with Left + Right when moonwalking?
Moonwalk does properly activate from both directions when L+R is pressed, but I don't see any benefit of doing so.
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 444
Location: New York, US
Taco wrote:
lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:
Also another question I have is have you guys experimented with Left + Right when moonwalking?
Moonwalk does properly activate from both directions when L+R is pressed, but I don't see any benefit of doing so.
Well I thought it may have something to do with a possible shorter charge or something to that effect. Does it activate if you holding forward or does it require you to let go of the input entirely? Again I wish you guys the best of luck in trying to find more uses for it!!!
My name is 4N6/Forensics.
Former player
Joined: 6/28/2007
Posts: 67
lxx4xNx6xxl wrote:
Does it activate if you holding forward or does it require you to let go of the input entirely?
Moonwalk works if both directions are pressed, it just doesn't seem to change anything.
Former player
Joined: 6/28/2007
Posts: 67
The secret is out to some people on Twitch so I guess we should post about it. Sniq recently discovered an absolutely absurd new application of an old glitch that speeds up any movement along slopes in this game. It is possible to run through the purple diagonal room in Crateria, for example, in 258 frames. If Samus, while falling, unmorphs on the right frame and at a near-perfect y position, it is possible to maintain falling speed while running on the ground. The only known application up until now (that I'm aware of) is in the 100% TAS to negate the effect of Wrecked Ship treadmills, but apparently it also massively changes the way Samus interacts with slopes. It completely negates the seemingly random nature of slopes and what they do to Samus's horizontal position, and allows Samus to run along them at the same speed that she would on normal solid blocks. As a result, they also don't mess with Samus's subpixel anymore, which is a fantastic bonus by itself. Here it is. To ensure the comparison is fair, I created a test that runs through the room without the glitch that also does not collect any refills; it took 280 frames. Unfortunately, it means refilling strategies for this room may need to be completely redone... that'll be fun. I expect they'll cost a lot more time to collect now, though, so the actual gain in this case might fall down to single digits, especially since the previous room takes longer to set up the glitch (although the setup in that smv is most certainly improvable). Regardless, it could be useful in many rooms throughout the game, especially if less time-consuming ways of performing the glitch are discovered; all known methods right now either involve unmorphing, or some weird clipping and turnarounds that will probably never be useful.
Skilled player (1431)
Joined: 7/15/2007
Posts: 1468
Location: Sweden
That's pretty wild! Do you know if it also helps Samus stick to the ground better when armpumping down a slope? Although that's probably not terribly important as some of the rooms where this could save the most time weren't really affected much by that (like the purple diagonal room or pre-speedbooster room).
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Post subject: Calling for Super Metroid experts
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away
Well, it seems the improvements in this game have firmly entered the realm of some esoteric shamanism. Because of this I would like to try (timely, I know) updating the resources page with all the "new" knowledge, most of which by this point is pretty old already. But as it seems there's a 6-something year backlog on that, and there's realistically no way to infer everything from an overlong discussion thread and randomly encountered replays (most of which use different mutually incompatible versions of an outdated emulator, no less!) and YouTube videos, there are several tasks to do: 1) make a listing of all the tricks, techniques, glitches, and otherwise important information missing from the page (if it helps, the last batch of new content was added exactly 6 years ago, and that particular edit wasn't comprehensive even then); 2) gather explanations and/or, if available, existing movie demonstrations; 3) make new or update existing movie demonstrations for every trick to BizHawk's movie format to ensure absolute forwards compatibility (we can convert them to lsnes later if needed thanks to both emulators sharing the same core); 4) sort, reword, and actually edit all the new information in. Thanks to our own negligence, these tasks have grown out of proportions and there's realistically no way to expect any one person to complete them alone. As such, I would like to recruit any help you guys are willing to provide, because no-one else can. There's literally no single more knowledgeable community than the people subscribed to this particular thread. The most help I need by far is with #3 which is the most mundane and time-consuming task¹. I'll attempt to gradually trudge through #1 and #2 on my own, though of course if you can PM me some links to particular posts, or smvs, or anything else like that, I'd appreciate that. #4 I can handle by myself. Ideally I'd like to get it done by the end of the year at the latest, and by getting it done I mean making the page complete and fully up-to-date. ¹ To elaborate on this: — everything must be presented in a way that demonstrates its full theoretical potential as far as the current knowledge goes, so demo environment should be chosen with care (West Crateria, Red Brinstar, and Upper Norfair contain good enough testing grounds); — every demonstration should include a complete trick setup from frame 0. If the setup involves visiting separate locations (such as the ACE/memory corruption techniques), break the movie down accordingly so that only the relevant content remains; — demo setups and environments should contain surplus resources and be as safe and hassle-free as possible, so that different approaches and variations could be tested from the movie savestate. Using the Space/Time beam to restart the game with all upgrades, so that resources are abundant but relevant items and sequences aren't yet triggered/collected, would be optimal for this goal; — tricks and timesavers should be presented in the optimal way; optimal positioning, etc., must be achieved even if it doesn't provide any tangible benefit (so that if a person tries to improve it at a later point, they should have a rock-solid reference). Because of all this I'm not qualified enough to make most of the demonstrations, being woefully out of date with both the new tricks and tools. Why so meticulous? So that neither we nor anyone else had to do it at a later point without a compelling reason.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Post subject: Re: Calling for Super Metroid experts
Skilled player (1320)
Joined: 6/27/2014
Posts: 87
Location: Finland
https://www.youtube.com/user/eternisedDragon7/videos He has quite a lot of glitch and mechanic videos. He also wrote this "book": http://pastebin.com/xs2zHG01 Definitely worth checking his every single video
Former player
Joined: 6/28/2007
Posts: 67
Cpadolf wrote:
That's pretty wild! Do you know if it also helps Samus stick to the ground better when armpumping down a slope?
Unfortunately, it doesn't. As for the resources page, I'd be happy to help, particularly with numbers 1-3.
Skilled player (1320)
Joined: 6/27/2014
Posts: 87
Location: Finland
By combining several different things and tricks, I managed to do this: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/524344051/r-mode%20knockback%20spark%20suit.smv