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I don't know the game too well, but it's something absolutely insane.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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oh my god ! FINALLY !!!
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I usually try to follow this game as I played it a lot, even though things have gotten too technical for me. I just want to say I am amazed at the research done here and the results are incredible, can't wait to see a TAS with the new strats, hopefully even console verified!
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Aran Jaeger wrote:
Today, the 13.01.2016, Sniq, Tewtal and me broke the 14% item-limit for TAS, for NTSC inbounds without major glitches. The following two maneuvers make 13%Speedbooster a reality, which obsoletes both 14% (low%) branches, low%Speed and low%Ice, that are published at TASVideos (as soon as a proper 13% TAS exists): Suitless Slopespark (using BlueSuit from the only known source available, Varia, to cancel invulnerability frames, in order to get a second set of invulnerability frames to have enough time to start the spark in the same frame as when the knockback frames run out): http://puu.sh/mtmVI/014ba0fbca.mp4 Corresponding Snes9x rerecording 1.51 v.7 movie: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1980525759/Super%20Metroid%2013%25%20speedbooster.smv Colosseum shinespark charge (for a FlashSuit via spike-spark) in 13%Speedbooster conditions (using temporary BlueSuit movement to keep the Boost Counter, a reserve-bombjump, a bounce-ball to continue running upon the first spike-contact, knockback-frames provided by the spikes to unmorph and increase the Boost Counter, Moonwalk, and the spike-spark method): http://puu.sh/mu5GH/b01646d59f.mp4 Corresponding bk2 file: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/98929157894836224/136810285657751552/13_spikespark.bk2
13% sound very interesting!!! Hopefully one or more of our Professional Super Metroid TASers will TAS it in the near future. Things have gotten pretty crazy over the years for this game in general. Zoast is even doing the Double Spark in RTA and in the spot I suggested even, I couldn't be more proud of the Super Metroid community as a whole!!!
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That's a great achievement!!! Congratulations, guys!
Aran Jaeger wrote:
Suitless Slopespark (using BlueSuit from the only known source available, Varia, to cancel invulnerability frames, in order to get a second set of invulnerability frames to have enough time to start the spark in the same frame as when the knockback frames run out): 13% Speedbooster
I watched the smv and when you say you used a blue suit from the only know source avaliable, you mean when the smv was made, right? I mean, unless I'm missing something, you can use the slope spark or spike glitch known today to easily get a stored spark which would eliminate: 1 - The need of the huge backtrack for Varia 2 - The need of suitless Norfair: You can get Varia right after defeating Kraid. 3 - The slow pace with Blue Suit: With the spike/slope spark you can hold the run button all the way. 4 - Entering Maridia from the back door: By beeing able to hold the run button you can build up more speed which allow you to make a highter jump. That would probably allow you to gravity jump from the noob tube all the way to the upper ledge of the Maridia mainstreet area. All this would save an enormous amount of time. It's a shame, though, that you need a reserve tank, maybe something is still waiting to be discovered.
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Eye Of The Beholder, I was not refering to the past, and we strictly needed a BlueSuit (or at least some way to cancel invulnerability frames) there, since a FlashSuit in contrast to BlueSuit cannot be used to cancel invulnerability frames, which however can be achieved via moving with BlueSuit (or temporary BlueSuit or executing a (Pseudo-)ScrewAttack spinjump if it was not for the suitless underwater circumstances). So, the state of the art is that we currently have no way to circumvent entering Maridia from Wrecked Ship via Forgotten Highway.
collect, analyse, categorise. "Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;) Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on. 1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans. 2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai. (last updated: 18.03.2018)
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Ok, I got it now. Damn!!! What a shame you need blue suit!
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Eye Of The Beholder wrote:
Ok, I got it now. Damn!!! What a shame you need blue suit!
Probably not, because it makes the resulting run much more interesting to watch for low% fans. IMO, the more crazy stuff you have to do to make it work, the better. How does this new 13% route differ from the "traditional" 14% speed route that's been known for years? It'd be helpful to have a summary for people like me who don't know the game that well but enjoy watching it.
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Well, I'm more concerned about the backtracks. I agree that to overcome all obstacles in different ways is cool, but backtracks are always backtracks, which is you travelling through the same rooms more than once. The good thing is, if the smv went for Kraid just to collect his Energy Tank, it can be worked out by collecting the Energy Tank in Blue Brinstar, right after the 1st Missile pack (same way the RBO does) and/or the Reserve Tank close to 1st Super Missile. So that backtrack is not needed. Well, if the blue suit has to be used this run would definitely be one of a kind, with suitless Norfair, blue suit all the way to Mt. Doom and other cool stuff. The 14% routes speed/ice both looks more like an any% run with power restrictions. Another difference between both is that this one don't get Gravity Suit, so Samus has to go trough Maridia suitless.
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Well there's no way around it unless you find completely new method to get blue suit , which won't happen.
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ais523, the route will probably be the following: 1. Early game as in any%, up to early SuperMissiles, including the Terminator-room E-Tank. 2. Brinstar R-Tank. 3. Charge. 4. Speedbooster (via hellrun). 5. Kraid and Varia-BlueSuit method. 6. early Red Brinstar powerbombs. 7. Phantoon, western and eastern Wrecked Ship SuperMissiles (skipping Moat-Missiles). 8. Forgotten Highway route to Maridia, including the top elevator to Maridia, the long vertical Maridian pipe, traversing the sandy rooms at the bottom of Maridia without losing BlueSuit, Green Gate Glitch, and all that in order to enter the room with the unbroken GlassTube to start a Gravitation-Jump at a higher point within the room. 9. Climbing up the walls in Fish-Tank room (i.e. pre-Turtle room), to get to mount Everest/Doom. 10. Executing a BlueSuit-assisted SlopeSpark diagonally upwards to the right to land on top of the mountain, leaving Samus with a FlashSuit. 11. Snail-climbing in Aqueduct/Snail-room to enter pre-Botwoon room where the FlashSuit´s shinespark is used to get past the speed-blocks. 12. Botwoon´s E-Tank. 13. Climbing up to Colosseum room for the "Colossus of Rhodes spark", i.e. the complicated spike-spark setup in Colosseum room to get another FlashSuit. 14. Draygon fight, with Samus being at the top right next to the door when Draygon dies, and escaping pre-Draygon room with the shinespark that is provided by the previously generated FlashSuit. 15. Escaping Maridia through the quick-sand in post-Botwoon room and beneath Aqueduct, past the lower Green Gate, towards Norfair. 16. Lavapit-route towards Ridley. 17. Taking some route towards Tourian, where Metroids will be killed using powerbombs (as in 14%Gravity-Speedbooster), and the Shinespark-Zebetite-skip will be used. To my knowledge, Tewtal aka total is making a test playthrough though, which will help understanding the route. Edit: We are not sure yet, if the route through Cacattack Alley and the vertical pipe is faster than going through the quicksand, after defeating Draygon. And we are not sure if the GreenBrinstar-, BlueBrinstar-, or RedBrinstar-route shall be taken on the way to Tourian after Ridley.
collect, analyse, categorise. "Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;) Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on. 1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans. 2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai. (last updated: 18.03.2018)
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Hello, I am reading this topic habitually :)
I start a text using a translation tool. I peruse and understand movie for illiteracy except Japanese.
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Hey, welcome SUPERMETROIDFTP! Nice to see you around here finally ^__^ You should be more around in the community, I think, with all your resources from the japanese forum/wiki ( http://smethack.mydns.jp/ ). You made a lot of cool Super Metroid videos. Super Metroid people are usually to be found on Twitch ( http://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Super%20Metroid ), and on Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/0YGBQjr7GLbPtDeU Aswell as here on TASVideos, and at Metroid Construction forum ( http://forum.metroidconstruction.com/ ) aswell as the old Metroid 2002 forum ( https://m2k2.taigaforum.com/ ), and at esper.net in the Channel #metconst ( https://www.esper.net/publicirc.php ), and in the SRL channel #supermetroid (accessible via /join #supermetroid ) ( http://www.speedrunslive.com/channel/ ), and at the SDA forum: https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/snes_super_metroid_352.html
collect, analyse, categorise. "Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;) Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on. 1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans. 2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai. (last updated: 18.03.2018)
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Aran Jaeger wrote:
Hey, welcome SUPERMETROIDFTP! Nice to see you around here finally ^__^ You should be more around in the community, ... (Abbreviation) ... SDA forum:
Thank you very much for various related information! ;)
I start a text using a translation tool. I peruse and understand movie for illiteracy except Japanese.
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Aran Jaeger wrote:
ais523, the route will probably be the following: 1. Early game as in any%, up to early SuperMissiles, including the Terminator-room E-Tank. 2. Brinstar R-Tank. 3. Charge. 4. Speedbooster (via hellrun). 5. Kraid and Varia-BlueSuit method. 6. early Red Brinstar powerbombs. 7. Phantoon, western and eastern Wrecked Ship SuperMissiles (skipping Moat-Missiles). 8. Forgotten Highway route to Maridia, including the top elevator to Maridia, the long vertical Maridian pipe, traversing the sandy rooms at the bottom of Maridia without losing BlueSuit, Green Gate Glitch, and all that in order to enter the room with the unbroken GlassTube to start a Gravitation-Jump at a higher point within the room. 9. Climbing up the walls in Fish-Tank room (i.e. pre-Turtle room), to get to mount Everest/Doom. 10. Executing a BlueSuit-assisted SlopeSpark diagonally upwards to the right to land on top of the mountain, leaving Samus with a FlashSuit. 11. Snail-climbing in Aqueduct/Snail-room to enter pre-Botwoon room where the FlashSuit´s shinespark is used to get past the speed-blocks. 12. Botwoon´s E-Tank. 13. Climbing up to Colosseum room for the "Colossus of Rhodes spark", i.e. the complicated spike-spark setup in Colosseum room to get another FlashSuit. 14. Draygon fight, with Samus being at the top right next to the door when Draygon dies, and escaping pre-Draygon room with the shinespark that is provided by the previously generated FlashSuit. 15. Escaping Maridia through the quick-sand in post-Botwoon room and beneath Aqueduct, past the lower Green Gate, towards Norfair. 16. Lavapit-route towards Ridley. 17. Taking some route towards Tourian, where Metroids will be killed using powerbombs (as in 14%Gravity-Speedbooster), and the Shinespark-Zebetite-skip will be used. To my knowledge, Tewtal aka total is making a test playthrough though, which will help understanding the route. Edit: We are not sure yet, if the route through Cacattack Alley and the vertical pipe is faster than going through the quicksand, after defeating Draygon. And we are not sure if the GreenBrinstar-, BlueBrinstar-, or RedBrinstar-route shall be taken on the way to Tourian after Ridley.
Wow that is just crazy!!! Also very complicated and intriguing in order to not get a single item. A video would definitely help most people to see a play through of the route and its entirety. Even though I understand it a visual would be much better but, I'm not sure you should disclose it entirely because it might ruin the run. Though who knows how long it will be, for someone to actually TAS the run. I really appreciate the effort from you, sniq and everyone else involved in crafting this route to make 13% more then just a dream and hope to see it fully optimized in the near future!!! SUPERMETROIDFTP welcome to TAS Videos!!! Edit: I got a couple questions, does the R-Tank kick in when Mother Brain Hyper Beams you? I'm assuming you skip an E-tank is why I'm asking. Also how are you getting up Red Brinstar without High Jump Boots or Ice Beam? I assume you would Bomb Jump up there. It seems very slow overall when holding a Blue Suit all the way but, I guess that's what it takes to do it
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Reserve Tanks do trigger from rainbow beam. You can replace up to two Energy Tanks with Reserve Tanks due to this, assuming they yield enough energy at the time of rainbow beam occurring. I think there's probably a bit of diagonal bomb jump shenanigans that can be performed to make climbing Red Tower faster than you may think, if that's what you're concerned about.
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Overfiendvip wrote:
Reserve Tanks do trigger from rainbow beam. You can replace up to two Energy Tanks with Reserve Tanks due to this, assuming they yield enough energy at the time of rainbow beam occurring. I think there's probably a bit of diagonal bomb jump shenanigans that can be performed to make climbing Red Tower faster than you may think, if that's what you're concerned about.
Interesting I didn't even know that, Thanks!!! This question isn't relevant, but I'm still curious. Do you know if it can trigger a Stand-Up Glitch if you have enough E-Tanks? I figured as much. I was just saying the Blue Suit would be very slow throughout the run not the bomb jumping. Slow, but very crazy that 13% is now possible.
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You need a minimum of 700 Energy Tank energy the moment rainbow beam connects for stand-up to be possible. Reserve Tank energy does not count towards this amount, unfortunately.
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Yea I thought as much. I was never sure because I never tried, thanks again!!! Anyway I'm excited about all the new developments can't wait to see more craziness to come. Also Moozooh how is it going with the Super Metroid tricks page update? I know you wanted to update before the end of the year.
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So a summary for people like me that have years-old low% knowledge is that the big improvement that saved the percentage is working out how to skip Gravity Suit without taking any other items to compensate. Unsurprisingly, most of the problematic places for this are in Maridia (in particular, finding a good way to enter it).
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http://www.twitch.tv/tewtal/v/36846210 I figured I should post the route of what the 13% would look like here for those that are interested.
My name is Forensics.
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lol... That was awesome, sniq! I always wondered if it wouldn't be possible to take that passage the way you did! Now I wonder how that could be implemented...
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Sniq's SMV: (260% ; super nerfed frame rate)
<^>v AB X LR s
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That is an awesome find!
I am still the wizard that did it. "On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata <scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is