No, not at your expense. I asked Anty-Lemon (and a couple of others in the IRC channel) to proof the message so that my message came across, and I didn't sound like an ass.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Whether they say so here or not, most from the "SM community" that I have seen comment think that Samsara in particular has come off as unnecessarily aggressive towards the game('s community), and feel it is further exacerbated by their lack of knowledge regarding the game, which is where the "why are you in this thread" thoughts are produced.
I think there may always be a disagreement as to why there is a restriction on categories for Super Metroid on this website, because I think the inner "SM community" does not agree with the reasoning as to why there can't be, for example, an Any%, ACE, 100%, RBO, two 13%s, 11%, and Map Completion on the website.
Not to push the issue, but I figured I'd point this out - that's only one more run than the amount that's currently on the website, and the runs I'm using as an example are, in my opinion, much more diverse than what's currently on the website. If you removed one of those (perhaps a 13%), it would match the website's current amount.
I am not saying I feel exactly the same (if what I described *is* an accurate description of what's going on), just that that's what I think I've been observing.
Joined: 10/12/2011
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Holy balls. You guys are complete hypocrites for calling Samsara awful.
Samsara is trying to get the ball to stop, by continuing to be blunt, and to end this conversation, but it has been 4 pages now, there is all this hate thrown at Samsara, and you're all acting like babies.
This is most likely now going to be archived into the land of Gure Topics once this is all done, so I am telling you as a user who was observing, to stop acting the way you are and end the conversation now.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
5. "RBO" as the other of these two runs, though Total proposed a new heavily glitched route that I'd be quite fond of seeing. This could serve as the sort of glitch exhibition run where ridiculous, unexpected things are done in order to heavily break the game, as it stands now it kinda feels similar (but not TOO similar) to the low% run in terms of it being based on tight routing and interesting strategies and the site could really benefit from a heavily glitched run that doesn't just skip straight to the ending.
I agree with this. Unless a glitched RBO would turn out to be unspeakable boring (doubt it), I think it could be a suitable replacement for the current RBO, especially as the new any% run will share a lot more similarities with the RBO than the current ones do, making it a lot less unique.
Invariel wrote:
It's a difference of opinion, absolutely, but I am interested in what the underlying cause of dissention is, beyond the ammo management argument.
Well I think for me the point is that we already have to accept that you put some limits on low%, because accepting glitches of various degrees would get the percentage down to 6, then 4 then 2. So the limitation of avoiding the overflow glitch as well makes sense because I think the main reason the category should exists at all is to have a run that properly faces the challenges inherent to a low% run, part of which is limited ammo. To take it to an extreme, if a glitch was found that somehow gave you all equipment without raising the item percentage at the end, would it be accepted as a low% run because the game says you finished with 0% item collection without any ACE/OoB? Obviously the overflow glitch is not nearly that extreme and therefore I don't think it's that black and white, but it does give you extra equipment without raising the item percentage which to me goes against the idea of the run.
Now as for preference of gameplay it does basically come down to me finding part of the appeal of a low% being how you best handle limitations of health and ammo (health management would also be affected by this since you could completely focus on getting health from every enemy instead of ammo). Although as for a negative, I won't disagree that Ridley and especially MB are needlessly drawn out in a low% run and would be improved with some missile spam rather than hundreds of charged shots from the peashooter.
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Overfiendvip wrote:
Whether they say so here or not, most from the "SM community" that I have seen comment think that Samsara in particular has come off as unnecessarily aggressive towards the game('s community), and feel it is further exacerbated by their lack of knowledge regarding the game, which is where the "why are you in this thread" thoughts are produced.
I'm in this thread because I'm site staff, and this is an issue that directly concerns site matters. I belong wherever staff intervention is needed. This is not just about Super Metroid. The discussion about categories applies to literally every game we have a published run for.
EDIT: Striking this entire post while I rewrite it.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2823
Location: Northern California
Schmeman wrote:
By repeating yourself over and over you're ignoring underlying questions and concerns.
Then please bring these underlying questions and concerns to the forefront so that I may address them. All I have personally seen in this thread is concerns and criticisms over our methods of categorizing movies. Obviously I've missed something in the ongoing storm of this thread.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2823
Location: Northern California
Speaking personally, I don't think the overflow glitch should be barred as a "major glitch" on the same level as something like the game end glitch or x-ray climbing, but I understand and accept if the community wants to leave it out of the low% run. Generally we listen to the game community's definition of each category instead of making our own rules for them. It's only the number of categories we publish that's in our control, not what they contain. I get the funny feeling I've overexaggerated that point for some reason, not sure why.
I would like to see the glitch in one published run, it doesn't necessarily have to be low% but if it saves time in any other category then I really feel like it should be used. Low% can get away with leaving it behind in favor of a more exciting, technically impressive run, but use it wherever else it saves time.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
To me, the fun of low% has always been about watching an extremely underequipped Samus struggle her way through the game in situations that should barely even be possible. That results in creative, unique strategies being used all throughout the run to overcome the challenges that that presents. Given that description, it's easy to think that the challenge of fighting the bosses with virtually no equipment is part of the fun of the category as well, but frankly, Ridley and MB are just boring. There is absolutely nothing good about them in a low% run.
For that reason, I'm not opposed to ammo under/overflow being the sole published version of 13%. It would make the relatively minor sacrifice of less intense energy/ammo management to remove what have always been the two largest detriments to the category's entertainment.
Regarding a glitched RBO run, it's worth keeping in mind that xray/reserve glitches would most likely be used to avoid taking heat damage while fighting Ridley, along with a few other things like reverse LN entry to skip a large number of the heated rooms including the lava dive.
Initially, I was opposed to the idea of a glitched RBO for that reason - it'd defeat the purpose of the category and seemingly remove any entertainment-related reasons to actually kill the bosses in reverse order. I realized, though, that putting Samus into that daunting situation and then laughing in the game's face as every major obstacle is not just overcome, but completely avoided in nonsensical ways would give it a strong WTF-feeling that gliched runs should, of course, have. So I'm not sure how to feel about it yet.
The most interesting thing about the possibility of Glitched RBO, to me, was total suggesting that MB would be defeated first. That, alone, piques my interest. I want to see that run one day.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
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I'll always see underflow as a major glitch because it Glitches the look of the Missiles and Super Missiles until Mother Brain hits you with a Hyper Beam.
Do you consider getting 10 lives in Super Mario Bros. a major glitch because it displays crown-0 lives? How about 50+ lives where it's crown-<tile> lives? Because that seems to be what's going on there.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 454
Location: New York, US
I really don't see your point.
Super Jump is considered a Major Glitch because it glitches doors and gets you into doors you should not be able to access yet. Ammo you shouldn't have access to for me is no different.
You're calling it a major glitch because it glitches out the display. I'm pointing out that the "major" display glitch is the exact same thing that happens when you get 10 lives in Super Mario Bros. Are you considering "getting 10 lives in Super Mario Bros." to be a major glitch?
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 454
Location: New York, US
I said it also glitches the display but, its a major glitch because it gives you ammo that you shouldn't even have access to without increasing to your item percentage.
I'll always see underflow as a major glitch because it Glitches the look of the Missiles and Super Missiles until Mother Brain hits you with a Hyper Beam.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
I'm trying to debate your point by using the words you said and a counter-example where the exact same thing happens, to show you that (at least that part) is not indicative of a major glitch in a video game.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 454
Location: New York, US
That is my opinion on this matter and something I wanted to point out as well. The main argument its a major glitch that gives you ammo you shouldn't have.
When something glitches the display in a non glitched run I also consider that to be glitched.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2823
Location: Northern California
Schmeman wrote:
Yeah it's no joke that the Ridley and Mother Brain fights are rather boring in low%, especially considering there will be no ice, so it's a good 300 shots (on MB) and nearly that many on Ridley (considering you can use missiles/supers/pbs on ridley). I agree that it might be worth considering overflow if not to eliminate the tedium of these fights, but I'm not sure.
I feel like that's enough to push it over the edge for me and say it'd be better to use overflow for a low% run, having it remove heavy amounts of tedium on two boss fights would do wonders for the entertainment level and I'm still firmly in the camp that the general audience would love to see the glitch anyway. Whether or not it is or isn't a "major glitch" is all a personal matter. It seems like it saves a lot of time in the long run without skipping areas, though, and I think that counts more for the "spirit of low%" than anything else. It's just like how we have "warpless" runs that skip stages in other ways: As long as no in-game warps are used, it's still a warpless run. So in my mind, even with overflow it'd still be a low% run since you're getting those missiles through other, unconventional means that don't add to completion percentage.
I'd honestly recommend doing theory TASes with and without overflow and post them here for us to decide which one ends up the fastest/most entertaining. It may be a lot of effort, but it'll pay off far more in the end.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
