Hi. This is an improvement of 208 frames over my cancelled submisson.
Game objectives
Emulator used: BizHawk 1.11.6
Aims for fastest time
Takes damage to save time
Uses a game restart secuence
Comments
Most of the improvements come from better optimization. I also found that pressing left+right on ladders gives a great speed to the left and you are at max speed directly after letting go of the ladder.
Stage by stage comments
1-1 (1)
I used a different strat to do the ladder glitch at the beggining of the level saving 41 frames. It is possible to clip in the ground with the help of a veggie. I lost back that time to the Birdo frame rule, but I saved 1 frame at the Birdo fight.
1-2 (13)
I saved 1 frame in the first part by jumping on one enemy instead of two. I also saved 11 frames at the Birdo fight.
1-3 (13)
There is no change in this level
3-1 (19)
I had an extra lag frame when restarting the game. I saved 4 frames in the second room by jumping instead of falling. I saved 3 frames in the following room with better subpixel and better potion throwing.
5-1 (26)
Better optimization allowed me to save 7 frames.
5-2 (113)
I saved 6 frames from better optimization up to the Birdo fight where I saved 81 frames.
5-3 (147)
I saved 34 frames from better optimization.
7-1 (202)
I barely made the rocket frame rule which saved a frame. I saved another frame in the following room. Then, using the left+ right trick in the climbing room, I saved 27 frames. Finally, I saved 26 frames at the Birdo fight.
7-2 (208)
Even though I saved 54 frames up to Wart, I am still over a second off the veggie cycle. I still saved 6 frames at Wart. I paused at the last hit to prevent him from moving. The global timer doesn't pause when the game is paused.
Other comments
Big thanks to Tompa for pointing me out improvements on my last submisson and for giving me feedback during the making of this TAS.
Thanks to masterjun for showing me the strat in 1-1. It adds a lot to the entertainement.
Samsara: File replaced with an 8 frame improvement at the very end.
Samsara: As I said in the thread, I'm glad you stuck with the movie and pushed down the time further and further with each new submission. Excellent work!
After reviewing the NES and GBA runs, I've determined that this is sufficiently different to stand on its own as another separate publication, so with the much heavier amount of optimization this time around I'm accepting it to Moons.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Northern California
ALAKTORN wrote:
Mothrayas wrote:
If Masterjun is fine with vince taking his input in the end (as he stated in his post in this thread), why would vince need to change it for authorship reasons?
I’ve literally explained why in my first post. Can you try reading it? Authorship is not an agreement, it’s a fact. If you made something, you’re that something’s author. That’s how it fucking works, not “Oh but I don’t care about authorship so don’t worry about it”. Read up on the definition of “author” in a dictionary or something.
This isn't your decision to make. The only thing you're fighting for right now is another ban.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | CohostwarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
ALAKTORN wrote:
Mothrayas wrote:
If Masterjun is fine with vince taking his input in the end (as he stated in his post in this thread), why would vince need to change it for authorship reasons?
I’ve literally explained why in my first post. Can you try reading it? Authorship is not an agreement, it’s a fact. If you made something, you’re that something’s author. That’s how it fucking works, not “Oh but I don’t care about authorship so don’t worry about it”. Read up on the definition of “author” in a dictionary or something.
Authorship is a given fact, credit is not. If Masterjun allows vince to use his input but does not want to be given credit, then that is fine, we attribute the full movie to vince even if a small part of the input is not actually his.
This is how practically every industry that produces works with credit works (especially the entertainment industry); credit is a choice (either of the publisher of the work, or (usually) deferred to the author of the (partial) work). As we defer the choice of credit to the author, if Masterjun does not want to take credit for his input, we attribute it as if it was vince's. That is how it is, and that is how it's going to be published. Case closed.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
ALAKTORN, where do you get your definition of copying?
If the earliest frame to press 'start' to start the game is discovered to be 8, then everyone who submits an improvement to the first run of that game (which presses 'start' on frame eight) must, by your definition, give a co-authorship credit to the person who pioneered the technique of pressing 'start' on frame eight, regardless of the rest of the input used; is that accurate?
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
Co-author isn't really limited to the inputs used I would say. The help and contribution from every past person for a TAS is technically an author of the improvement, as everyone helped out for the finished product.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2793
Location: Northern California
Let's say I write a book. In it, one of my characters reads a Shakespeare play and acts out a small scene. Does that mean Shakespeare co-authored my book with me?
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | CohostwarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
If the earliest frame to press 'start' to start the game is discovered to be 8, then everyone who submits an improvement to the first run of that game (which presses 'start' on frame eight) must, by your definition, give a co-authorship credit to the person who pioneered the technique of pressing 'start' on frame eight, regardless of the rest of the input used; is that accurate?
I’ve already replied to this before. No, that’s not accurate. Copying is exactly that: copy-pasting or taking from elsewhere, not going through the TAS-making process yourself and doing it on your own. Achieving the same result as others is not the same as copying their result.
Those same eight frames are identical in all subsequent movies... that's copied.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
ALAKTORN wrote:
Mothrayas wrote:
Authorship is a given fact, credit is not.
I have no idea how you’re coming up with this distinction. It’s co-authorship, where does “credit” come from?
Credit means the name given in the author field. You seem to have an issue with vince1919 being the only author name given even though Masterjun also did a part of the input. So the authors are vince1919 and Masterjun (and Samsara), but the credited name is just vince1919. That is the distinction.
And I said in the rest of my post how while authorship is a given fact (as you have been arguing), credit is not, as that can be freely left to the publisher or the respective authors.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Those same eight frames are identical in all subsequent movies... that's copied.
…No it’s not. Getting to the same result as others ≠ copying them. If you can’t understand that I don’t know how to explain it to you.
Mothrayas wrote:
And I said in the rest of my post how while authorship is a given fact (as you have been arguing), credit is not, as that can be freely left to the publisher or the respective authors.
But then you’re just lying, if you don’t give credit where credit is due. You’re admitting Masterjun is an author… but not crediting him as such.
Edit:
arandomgameTASer wrote:
Question: Why not just ask Masterjun if he wants credit on this movie? Geez.
I see you haven’t been following the discussion. Why do people feel the need to jump in on arguments without even having read them?
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
ALAKTORN wrote:
But then you’re just lying, if you don’t give credit where credit is due. You’re admitting Masterjun is an author… but not crediting him as such.
Yes, and?
As I said in the same post, every industry that produces works with credit does this. People not getting credited for (small) stuff they did happens all the time everywhere, sometimes voluntary or not. And in this case, it is voluntary and willing for literally everyone involved. There is nobody involved who has a problem with this.
arandomgameTASer wrote:
Question: Why not just ask Masterjun if he wants credit on this movie? Geez.
He has stated he doesn't want to be credited.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
And I said in the rest of my post how while authorship is a given fact (as you have been arguing), credit is not, as that can be freely left to the publisher or the respective authors.
But then you’re just lying, if you don’t give credit where credit is due. You’re admitting Masterjun is an author… but not crediting him as such.
He asked not to be credited. He definitely has a right to be credited, but he chose not to exercise it. What is there not to get about this?
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
I suggest we change the submission to this file and please add ALAKTORN and MKDasher as authors: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/31219011528666255
I copied 21 frames of input from their SM64 DS run. Can be seen frame 41 -> 61.
Jokes aside... Let's just ignore this pointless discussion already.
And I said in the rest of my post how while authorship is a given fact (as you have been arguing), credit is not, as that can be freely left to the publisher or the respective authors.
But then you’re just lying, if you don’t give credit where credit is due. You’re admitting Masterjun is an author… but not crediting him as such.
He asked not to be credited. He definitely has a right to be credited, but he chose not to exercise it. What is there not to get about this?
Just the fact that I can’t comprehend how the site would write “Authors: vince” and not include Masterjun when the site itself recognizes him as an author. A casual viewer would read that nonethewiser and not know Masterjun was involved… even though he was. That’s lying to your audience.
With book publishers and ghostwriting, whenever an uncredited ghostwriter is found out everyone flips their shit because that shit isn’t right. Just because people/publishers do it doesn’t mean it’s right to do.
I don’t understand how you can lie like that.
Just the fact that I can’t comprehend how the site would write “Authors: vince” and not include Masterjun when the site itself recognizes him as an author. A casual viewer would read that nonethewiser and not know Masterjun was involved… even though he was. That’s lying to your audience.
With book publishers and ghostwriting, whenever an uncredited ghostwriter is found out everyone flips their shit because that shit isn’t right. Just because people/publishers do it doesn’t mean it’s right to do.
I don’t understand how you can lie like that.
It's not lying, he asked not to be credited. As in, he himself asked not to be credited. So we're honoring his wishes by not crediting him. This really isn't that hard dude, can you please drop it? I understand wanting to set something right, and I do see your point, but you've already gotten a valid answer just right now.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter
- some loser
It's not lying, he asked not to be credited. As in, he himself asked not to be credited. So we're honoring his wishes by not crediting him. This really isn't that hard dude, can you please drop it?
To the bolded: really? Think about what you’ve said there. Yes, it is lying. The author is giving you permission to lie… but does that make it right? Not in my opinion. You’re still lying; rather than not crediting an author, the site should demand that credit will no longer be necessary– so to redo the input. Otherwise you’d just be lying, and I don’t understand how that’s acceptable.
I really don't see how it's lying if the author requests to not be credited. Vince used like maybe one trick's worth of Masterjun's input without consulting him about it, so clearly Masterjun had no real involvement in the final run. A lie would be to put his name in the credits simply because some of his input was used, as that implies he willingly had a hand in it.
Whatever, maybe I'm not explaining that well, but this conversation is kind of silly :p
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter
- some loser
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
It's acceptable because it is the wish of the author and everyone involved, and it is the choice that makes the author and everyone involved happy. I'm not sure why anyone should have a problem with the option that literally benefits everybody involved as according to their own wishes. There is no reason to make a morality issue out of it.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa
<dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects.
<Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits
<adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Alaktorn:
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
