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Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Link to video
Looks good!
1. Is there that frame when new background block is rendered and all enemies on the screen freeze, like in the first game? It plays a huge role in its pacifist run. Probably some other things from the first game would also matter here, as they already play a bigger role in its pacifist run than in any%.
2. I knew about death boosting into the door from NG2 RTAs I think.
3. Now I miss NG's infamous damage boosting and birds!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Nice.
My favorite moments in addition to damage boosting and deaths abuse are 4-1A - ninja with raising his hands and 7-2B - bullets flying across the screen to end the level.
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Thanks. To answer feos questions:
1. I did notice that there is sometimes an extra frame in between hit detections. Could be the same effect, it's one of the things I need to look into.
2. So I'm not sure about the first two games but the death cheat glitch is a little more than just damage boosting into the door. In the first two games and the Japanese version of this one you get to start in the room where you died. In this version you always start at the beginning of the subsection. So if you die in 2-2C or 2-2D you go back to 2-2A. But if you watch this run you'll see that I enter the door at the top of 7-3A as I die and restart in 7-3B. If you were watching really closely you might also notice that I don't lose a life. In fact what happens is that your life count gets set to 2.
It's not enough to enter the door on your death bounce. You actually have to enter the door at the same frame you take the last hit. If you die and then fall into the door you get the normal behavior. Which is fine if the door took you to a new subsection but not otherwise. Anyway, this is why I say I would die more but not continue.
You might notice that the life bar is totally drained during the act 5 boss fight. What happens there is a non-glitched fall into the door followed by the death flag getting reset by the cutscene. That is only going to work on doors to the last 3 bosses and acts 6 and 7 don't have a good setup for it.
3. Yeah, an actual boost would be nice. No birds but the homing robots and bees have pretty much the same AI. In general they are hard to deal with because you can't just take a hit and go on; they will just keep following you and you won't get rid of them.
XYZ wrote:
7-2B - bullets flying across the screen
Bullets are actually quite interesting in a pacifist run. In 7-2B they make for a better spot to get my damage invincibility. When there are two cannons close together you can set up a situation where 7 shots take up most of the enemy slots and only one more enemy can spawn. This is very tempting in 7-1 but even against the wind you can outrun the bullets pretty easily. You can't fill all 8 slots because there has to be a cannon in existence to fire the last shot. But if you get lucky you can spawn an enemy that runs up from behind to fill the last slot. I should post some outtakes because there are some slow but neat strats that might be interesting for RTA.
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
mtvf1 wrote:
I think a taser should choose the very hard mode.
I saw xipo's pacifist, no-damage run. Sorta neat but:
* He uses the easier J version.
* Going for no damage makes it really long, over 2 minutes longer than this run. Sometimes there are neat tricks but many sections are really slow.
* He ends up killing a few enemies, failing the pacifist goal! Some of them are definitely avoidable. Even more importantly than playing hardest mode a TAS needs to meet its goals. (He did succeed in the first two games)
Though my very old first published run on this game took no damage I don't think it is a good choice. You can't take that many hits anyway.
I saw xipo's pacifist, no-damage run. Sorta neat but:
* He uses the easier J version.
* Going for no damage makes it really long, over 2 minutes longer than this run. Sometimes there are neat tricks but many sections are really slow.
* He ends up killing a few enemies, failing the pacifist goal! Some of them are definitely avoidable. Even more importantly than playing hardest mode a TAS needs to meet its goals. (He did succeed in the first two games)
Though my very old first published run on this game took no damage I don't think it is a good choice. You can't take that many hits anyway.
Yes, I know J version is easier than U. What's about "pacifist" "the less damaged"? I think the only pacifist run is too similar to the normal published one.
In fact, xipo has did a pacifist run in 2 years ago.
Link to video
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Do you have the input for that run? I don't see it in this thread or the one linked. It is J version but looks very well done with some tricks I can use. Guess I should ask xipo. I don't see why he hasn't submitted it though I think U version should be preferred.
I think pacifist run looks quite a bit different from any%. Though it's not bad if looks similar to an awesome run. Much better than to look slow and boring.
A big reason for this pacifist definition is that it is a recognized branch for RTA runners as well. They have three branches for each Ninja Gaiden game:
* any%
* low% - basically just no powerups. I don't think this would be interesting for a TAS.
* pacifist - no powerups and no killing normal enemies.
For the first two NGs there are pacifist SDA records and pacifist marathon runs. This game, especially the USA version, is much more difficult. So I thought it would be good for a TAS.
Bullets are actually quite interesting in a pacifist run.
Hmm, intreresting. Can this "8-slots" rule used in NG-2 or NG-1? For example in encounters with all this crazy bats.
About your WIP. Why you not take life in 4-2A level? Or life can be named "power-up", which you forbidden?
Hello, everybody. I am buzy for studying recently and neglected replying, sorry for that. I've found something for pacifist run. There's 1 invincible frame between pause and restore, it can be used repeatedly to get longer invincible effect.
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Very good find Rum! Looks like the counter that controls when hit detection happens keeps going during the pause. With this you can easily walk right through enemies. It is pretty slow since each pause costs at least 3 frames and you get 3 or maybe 4 frames in between each pause. In fact it looks like the best scenario would be 5 frame pauses with 3 frames of movement. Seems unlikely to be useful for any%. For pacifist it might be useful as a last resort if it can save a death or maybe a long wait.
Hanging around twitch today, faminesys brought this to my attention:
Link to video
I did confirm that scrolling the screen up slightly is required (to load some extra squishy floor), but didn't bother with any speed comparison.
PHONY EDIT: I did a rough comparison and it was 455 frames slower; all that sinking takes forever.
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
I knew about this. I at least remember seeing it done in the pacifist run at one of the GDQs. Yeah, it's way too slow for a TAS. Even in a pacifist run it's a lot faster to play through normally.
By the way I keep thinking about taking another pass at the pacifist run. Maybe I'll get to it soon.
I knew about this. I at least remember seeing it done in the pacifist run at one of the GDQs. Yeah, it's way too slow for a TAS. Even in a pacifist run it's a lot faster to play through normally.
By the way I keep thinking about taking another pass at the pacifist run. Maybe I'll get to it soon.
Yep, figured the odds were pretty good that you already knew about this. Admittedly, I haven't paid much attention to this game since submitting my version back in 2007.
Even being able to fast wall-jump up the wall wouldn't make up for the time lost, and you're stuck holding up since wall-jumps eject Ryu from the wall.
I hope you find the time for another go at pacifist; it would be nice to see the no game-over version!
Hey I've been working on NG3 Pacifist US for a while (RTA) and actually a lot of the strats used look extremely similar to mine but there is 1 change you can make that would remove the game over actually you already performed the glitch in the run happens in 7-3 when you take the death you can see that your lives remains at 2. I don't know exactly what the requirements are for that glitch you may not be able to be at 0 lives but When you do the frame perfect death it resets your lives so you can probably fit this in somehere that would reset your lives so you don't have to get the game over screen
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Thanks gusmancini, I figured that glitch out at act 7 of the test run so I decided to finish it before starting over. Basically, if you take the last hit on the same frame as you enter the door then you get a glitched death. Not only do you get to start your next life at that door instead of the beginning of the level but your extra life count gets reset to 2. So yeah, in my next pass through the game I'll use that to avoid continuing and likely die even more.
